Williams and Spielberg to be honored on Turner Classic Movies' AFI Master Class

[Thor 7,495]

And just about all of Elfman's best work has been done outside of Burton.

The Elfman/Burton collaboration is just as strong as the Williams/Spielberg from an aesthetic angle, IMO, even though the box office success of the latter is probably higher. Also, Elfman has done several non-film thingies for his longtime partner, like Stainboy, MOMA, tv shows etc.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I love Elfman, but I have absolutely no time for Tim Burton at all. And that probably reflects in my opinion of the music. Don't get me wrong, he has done strong work (BATMAN is sometimes genius, BIG FISH is lovely, parts of SCISSORHANDS are very good) but to me his work outside is a revelation, and a breath of fresh air.

[Thor 7,495]

I love Elfman, but I have absolutely no time for Tim Burton at all. And that probably reflects in my opinion of the music. Don't get me wrong, he has done strong work (BATMAN is sometimes genius, BIG FISH is lovely, parts of SCISSORHANDS are very good) but to me his work outside is a revelation, and a breath of fresh air.

To each their own. I adore much of his Burton output, although obviously not all of it. I love the wonder and magic stuff, not so much the deep and dark bombasticism.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

There's nothing like pumping out Mars Attacks! on a powerful hi-fi. It's probably not the most thematically rich of all Burton/Elfman collaborations, but I love its style.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

In a way Burton and Elfman are TOO made for each other.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

But in nine years time Spielberg and Williams would have been working together for 49 years.

Also Elfman started with Oingo Boingo.

How many more years do you think Williams will last?

Elfman's film score career started with Burton.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Technically his film score career started with his brother Richard.

[Thor 7,495]

Technically his film score career started with his brother Richard.

That is correct.

Elfman's first more general film 'gig' was even before FORBIDDEN ZONE, as an extra with the Mystic Knights in I NEVER PROMISED YOU A ROSE GARDEN (1977), where he played one out of several vicious tribe members. Also as a singer with Boingo in Martin Brest's HOT TOMORROWS the same year. There were also a bunch of Boingo performances in film before he did PEE-WEE.

Here's a pic from ROSE GARDEN (a decent film, btw):

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Good special. Questions could have been much, much better, but whatever. Some JWFans in the audience would have improved things. "Mr. Spielberg, Mr. Williams, about Hook..."

- They opened and closed with The Reivers main title.

- I didn't know Spielberg temp tracked Jaws with Images.

- Spielberg claimed that Temple of Doom had the least appearances of the Raiders March. I really don't think that's true? Hey. at least he spoke positively about the movie!

[Wojo 2,453]

I thought he wrote in the liner notes for TLC that the intent for that score was to tone down the number of Raiders March appearances, as if to make the score more "mature." He didn't want to use that theme each time to indicate the action. The audience should get more variety. Something to that effect.

[Faleel 5,346]

I thought he wrote in the liner notes for TLC that the intent for that score was to tone down the number of Raiders March appearances, as if to make the score more "mature." He didn't want to push the thrill button every time. Something to that effect.

He did.

[DigitalfreakNYC 59]

Captured in HD. AWESOME!!!

[indy4 155]

Does it contain any spoilers from Tintin or War Horse?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Does it contain any spoilers from Tintin or War Horse?

did you not see it. It gave tons of spoilers and most of the almost an hour show was about the colaboration for TinTin.

no really not a word. It was about their past and not their present. It was marvelous and too short.

[mrbellamy 6,278]

Anyone know if this is going to appear on the TCM site, or it's been uploaded elsewhere? Been going without cable, and I'm dying to see it :/

[JoeinAR 1,949]

one big surprise is John Williams does not watch movies.

I gather he is a serious music geek.

He also said he doesn't use technology to write, just a piano, pencil, and sheet music.

THE MAN IS A GOD.

[Hlao-roo 389]

one big surprise is John Williams does not watch movies.

I gather he is a serious music geek.

He also said he doesn't use technology to write, just a piano, pencil, and sheet music.

THE MAN IS A GOD.

Yeah, the most surprising part of the program was the part where Williams, unable to contain himself any longer, leapt to his feet and proclaimed to the world, "I AM THAT I AM!"

And then some geek in the audience was like, "I was wrong!"

[JoeinAR 1,949]

there came a point during the show that you realized that Steven Spielberg was like many of us.

seriously he has some true geek love for the man.

[MissPadmé 17]

Wow, sounds great!

And what was the midnight "Encore"-show, that was annouced in the Promo Video? Is it the same show again, or does it contain new stuff?

[Incanus 5,714]

Wow, sounds great!

And what was the midnight "Encore"-show, that was annouced in the Promo Video? Is it the same show again, or does it contain new stuff?

I believe it was the same show again.

And it certainly sounds great. Spielberg being a geeky John Williams fan is so very obvious every time he speaks of the man.

[filmmusic 1,826]

He also said he doesn't use technology to write, just a piano, pencil, and sheet music.

Sorry to bring up something irrelevant to the thread, but THAT'S WHY film music of today is not good in my opinion.

You can't write something good, develop it, variate it etc. if you don't sit down with a pencil and paper and you write directly in Nuendo, or Cubase etc and you don't see the notes..

(edit: oh, and that's why film music of today is so minimalistic with chords lasting for long time)

and whoever new composer I see (either in facebook or elsewhere), are constantly giving their primal interest in their equipment, speakers, studio etc.

Well, good music isn't written by good equipment but by educated and good mind.

[Hlao-roo 389]

The very best music, of course, was composed with reed pen and papyrus. The invention of erasers destroyed everything.

[Incanus 5,714]

Different times, different tools dilemma. A good question is, are these labour saving devices also brought about by different modern demands that stem from the changed face of the film music business as well. I do not claim that this technological advancement would not have come about without film music but it is certainly a field of hectic industry that fuels such fast solutions and has come to demand them as a norm. But if the basic skills of writing music are heavily augmented by technology the temptation to rely on that technology becomes very strong. I also believe it is a bit different from mindset of a person sitting in front of a grand piano, playing those melodies etc. forced to conceive the music inwardly since he can't conjure up the symphony orchestra on the keys of his instrument. He can experiment but it is somewhat different than when someone sits between banks of synths and samples everything to hear how it sounds. But these gadgets alone do not determine whether a composer can create good music or is he doomed to mediocrity by his use of techological crutches. Good and solid education and talent are factors in this and also the mindset. Is the technology a means to an end or the end itself as it seems to be so often as filmmusic said.

And with times the aesthetics and sensibilities change as well, a pretty self evident truth. Film music cannot be unaffected by this. Not an excuse for mediocre writing from the younger composer crowd though.

[Hlao-roo 389]

What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun.

[Quintus 5,399]

A swarm in May is worth a load of hay; a swarm in June is worth a silver spoon; but a swarm in July is not worth a fly.

[Incanus 5,714]

Well I have yet to see a concert or film composer using the sound of flushing of toilet bowls or dead raccoons and beavers used as percussion or percussion mallets but that day will come. We are running out of novelties.

[Jay 37,351]

I can't believe despite the weeks of head-up posts, etc, I still managed to forget to set the DVR to tape this. I suck. And it looks like TCM isn't going to rerun it anytime soon either - I wonder why not?

[Incanus 5,714]

Well I think this show could have gone on longer than an hour. Williams and Spielberg were their own warm hearted selves with a lot of mutual admiration and nice insight to the scenes from these films.

It is a marvel to have such a collaboration and the utter trust and thus creative freedom as these two have with each other. I found it funny how they described their collaboration on a typical film and how unreconstructed it must have felt to many of the audience members expecting detailed descriptions of various film scoring procedures , Williams seeing the movie with Spielberg and going off to do his score, Spielberg wandering in and Williams previewing him the themes or ideas he has and finally hearing the score on the stage.

Both share great small anecdotes along the way, some brand new, some we long time JW fans have heard before.

It is so heart warming to see the obvious affection and respect these both men have for each other, their seemingly effortless communication and friendship.

[filmmusic 1,826]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggZVJ5a5dMQ

[Hlao-roo 389]

It is so heart warming to see the obvious affection and respect these both men have for each other, their seemingly effortless communication and friendship.

It's all a facade.

[Quintus 5,399]

Anyway I just watched this and I was chuffed that Claire sat and watched it with me.

Loved it. Even brought a tear to my eye.

I was in complete awe of these two aged giants of popular cinema.

[Thor 7,495]

Very nice to see them together, although there was very little that we don't already know -- as you all have pointed out.

I'd love to see all the bits that were edited out. I think some of the most interesting parts for us hard-core fans are located there!

Give us the Complete & Chronological interview!!

[SF1_freeze 131]

Here it really comes through that Steven Spielberg is a real John Williams fan. He knows the older themes, he listens to JW's music in his freetime and looks forward to scene specific music during the shooting of it. It seemed Spielberg remembered much more than JW himself.

I would be very suprised now if Steven Spielberg didnt visit this website from time to time, at least as a guest.

[Quintus 5,399]

I dunno, that Schindler's anecdote seems to get better with age!

[Once 605]

Damn, we need to air in Denmark.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

the encore was the directors cut in 3d. John's baton was removed digitally because it was feared that it could digitally put an eye out.

[Quintus 5,399]

Who did the walkie talkie, ILM or WETA?

[nightscape94 965]

I hope they make this available some other way. I hope there is a longer unedited version they plan on putting on DVD or download. Did it seem evident that it was edited down quite a bit, or is what you see is what you get?

[Faleel 5,346]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggZVJ5a5dMQ

at 4:37 williams is like: what you smok'n' bro?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Definitely edited, but I feel we got all there was to get.

What we needed, again, were better questions from JW Fans.

"Mr. Spielberg, about your rejecting much of Mr. Williams' Lost World score..."

"Mr. Williams, what is the editing process when you're assembling a soundtrack album from your film scores? There are some jarring omissions from A.I., including the Strauss bit that Kubrick himself wanted in there...surely an important cue. Also, here's an example from Revenge of the Sith...why is the best part cut out?"

"Mr. Williams, to the best of your recollection, what, if anything, was carried over into your score to Hook from the aborted Peter Pan musical?"

"Mr. Spielberg, Mr. Williams, how ABOUT that score to Hook? And the movie?"

[Koray Savas 2,251]

"Look under your chairs. Everyone in the audience today will get the complete scoring sessions to Hook!"

[Incanus 5,714]

"Look under your chairs. Everyone in the audience today will get the complete scoring sessions to Hook!"

And most of them (except the screen writer fellow) would probably roll their eyes and leave it there.

[Red 75]

I liked the slight riffing Spielberg gave to Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls.

[Jay 37,351]

What did he say?

[Red 75]

What did he say?

That they didn't quite get away with the nuking the fridge scene.

[Jay 37,351]

lol

[karelm 2,913]

Different times, different tools dilemma. A good question is, are these labour saving devices also brought about by different modern demands that stem from the changed face of the film music business as well. I do not claim that this technological advancement would not have come about without film music but it is certainly a field of hectic industry that fuels such fast solutions and has come to demand them as a norm. But if the basic skills of writing music are heavily augmented by technology the temptation to rely on that technology becomes very strong. I also believe it is a bit different from mindset of a person sitting in front of a grand piano, playing those melodies etc. forced to conceive the music inwardly since he can't conjure up the symphony orchestra on the keys of his instrument. He can experiment but it is somewhat different than when someone sits between banks of synths and samples everything to hear how it sounds. But these gadgets alone do not determine whether a composer can create good music or is he doomed to mediocrity by his use of techological crutches. Good and solid education and talent are factors in this and also the mindset. Is the technology a means to an end or the end itself as it seems to be so often as filmmusic said.

And with times the aesthetics and sensibilities change as well, a pretty self evident truth. Film music cannot be unaffected by this. Not an excuse for mediocre writing from the younger composer crowd though.

You make a good point. I believe the issue isn't really so much that the loss of paper and pencil is the reason film music is so mediocre today. Rather it is that lack of desire in cultivating the craft of composition since computers have reduced the need to master the necessary skills. The technology has lowered the bar of what skills are necessary for a "composer" to deliver a score and the speed at which it can be delivered. So inevitably, you'll get more crap scores come out of it.

As long as there is a desire to master the craft of composition, I think the use of technology is fine but part of what makes composition more essential is that it takes more thought to write out a melodic line by hand. The problem is when the composer allows the computer to take over the creative process. Use of technology as a replacement for the drudgery that is necessary to compose threatens to make the difficult task of composing just too easy. A nice benefit of composing the hard way is it results in careful reflection of what the composer is doing. The immense physical effort of writing by hand makes the composer question their motives and inspiration…”do I really mean to do that?” Since the computer makes the second guessing process trivial, the creative process is simplified and the reliance on mastering the composers craft is removed.

It is sort of like comparing the old 1930's and 1940's Disney animation all done in painstaking detail by hand to the CGI counterparts of today. To me, as long as the artist is obsessively trained in their craft, either are good in different ways...but there is just a little extra magic in the hand drawn animation because it was so time consuming to do. It was a labor of love and mastery of time honored skills and the results show.

[indy4 155]

Finally got a chance to watch it, and I loved it. It was cool to see JW joking around in a slightly sarcastic way. He looked and sounded great, too (healthwise).

Oh, also: it was nice to hear both Williams and Spielberg admit that a part of the charm of Indiana Jones is the campiness.

Also, Spielberg's comments about the use of themes in Indiana Jones was way off...first he said that ToD uses Indy's theme the least and LC uses it the most, but I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Then he thought that Short Round's theme was just music for the elephant trek.

[Thor 7,495]

Finally got a chance to watch it, and I loved it. It was cool to see JW joking around in a slightly sarcastic way. He looked and sounded great, too (healthwise).

Oh, also: it was nice to hear both Williams and Spielberg admit that a part of the charm of Indiana Jones is the campiness.

Also, Spielberg's comments about the use of themes in Indiana Jones was way off...first he said that ToD uses Indy's theme the least and LC uses it the most, but I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Then he thought that Short Round's theme was just music for the elephant trek.

Actually, he said LC used the classic Indy THEMES more than ToD, which should be about right, not just the Indy theme. But then again, I haven't done a thorough comparison.

Also, he had the undulating figure in mind when he talked about the trek music....the Short Round theme only appears as part of that in that sequence. He never suggested that Shor Round's theme was just for the elephant trek.

[mrbellamy 6,278]

Yeah, indy4, I think you're looking into what he said too much, at least where the elephant trek music is concerned. What difference would it have made if he added "I love how you integrated Short Round's theme into that sequence"? Hell, what difference does it make if he doesn't even know that's Short Round's theme? It's a beautifully scored sequence either way.