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The Adventures of Tintin SEQUEL Anticipation thread

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Its quite likely that John Williams would have went out of his way to score a score of great intellectual heights. And I'm almost certain he would have scored the film quite well (definitely better than most composers). After all, JW is capable of anything! However, I just believe that a score by Williams would have given a totally different vibe for LOTR which would not have been in accordance to Jackson's vision. Then again, I can't imagine a Horner score working for LOTR as well and he was one of the composers initially taken into consideration.

I still stand by that nobody could have scored LOTR as well as Shore did.

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Exactly. LOTR benefits from Shores music because he doesn't overscore like Williams might- you know, dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's. It has a very raw organic construction. Shore also tends to write less contrapuntally more chord based music - like a more classical version of RC productions with a lot of augmented chords. On the other hand I feel Shore wouldn't have been great for Tintin. Horses for courses.

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I dunno, one of the strengths of Williams is his versatility. I'm sure he could have churned out a fantastic LotR score, although probably not better than Shore's work. Regardless, I'm glad he didn't score them, because we ended up with a great trilogy on Shore's end and a sling of great scores on Williams' end (first 3 Potters, AI, CMIYC, AotC, Minority Report, etc.)

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TLW had a passage that sounded like TTT

Shore had a passage that sounded like Yoda's Death in "At the Prancing Pony" so yes, I think he could have scored it well.

A few coincidentally similar passages really don't prove that these two composers can write entire scores in the same style.

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Poledouris would have indeed crafted a fine score that would have fit Jackson's vision of Middle-Earth. But as good as what Shore gave us? Doubt it. I mean I really am finding it hard to digest the fact that some people don't agree (although everyone is entitled to their own opinion). Shore's score fits the film like a glove. And not any normal glove, its a glove that is so finely crafted that it attunes to every hair, lump, nail and tiny detail that is on the hand that is LOTR (kk, maybe not the best metaphor, but it works :D). What I'm basically trying to say is that it really is hard to imagine LOTR without Shore's score. Any other sound attached to it just won't work as well as Shore's magnum opus!

Just reading Doug Adams' book confirms that no composer would have gone to the same depth and incredible attention to detail that Shore does.

So yes, I still believe that nobody can score LOTR as well as Shore did! And I strongly disagree with anyone who disagrees with that!

- KK

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Poledouris would have indeed crafted a fine score that would have fit Jackson's vision of Middle-Earth. But as good as what Shore gave us? Doubt it. I mean I really am finding it hard to digest the fact that some people don't agree (although everyone is entitled to their own opinion). Shore's score fits the film like a glove. And not any normal glove, its a glove that is so finely crafted that it attunes to every hair, lump, nail and tiny detail that is on the hand that is LOTR (kk, maybe not the best metaphor, but it works :D). What I'm basically trying to say is that it really is hard to imagine LOTR without Shore's score. Any other sound attached to it just won't work as well as Shore's magnum opus!

Just reading Doug Adams' book confirms that no composer would have gone to the same depth and incredible attention to detail that Shore does.

So yes, I still believe that nobody can score LOTR as well as Shore did! And I strongly disagree with anyone who disagrees with that!

- KK

Incanus, do you have a second JWFan account, by any chance?

Karol

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I still believe that nobody can score LOTR as well as Shore did! And I strongly disagree with anyone who disagrees with that!

Did you discover Howard Shore through LOTR?

Did you discover film music through LOTR?

Do you absolutely and unconditionally love every single aspect of the LOTR movies?

Do you think that the LOTR movies are among the best films ever made?

If you answered yes to one or more of these questions, your opinion is hardly surprising.

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Heh heh, what a crock of shit!

In some other thread on some other board...

I still believe that nobody can score Star Wars as well as Williams did! And I strongly disagree with anyone who disagrees with that!

Did you discover John Williams through Star Wars?

Did you discover film music through Star Wars?

Do you absolutely and unconditionally love every single aspect of the Star Wars movies?

Do you think that the Star Wars movies are among the best films ever made?

Do you hate all black people?

If you answered yes to one or more of these questions, your opinion is hardly surprising.

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I still believe that nobody can score LOTR as well as Shore did! And I strongly disagree with anyone who disagrees with that!

Did you discover Howard Shore through LOTR?

Yes, but only because the LOTR scores are amongst the first scores I've ever obtained.

Did you discover film music through LOTR?

Nope, that honour goes to Star Wars. But after watching the films, the LOTR scores are what got me into seriously collecting.

Do you absolutely and unconditionally love every single aspect of the LOTR movies?

Almost, there are a few details I would pick with in the first film. Other than that, yes.

Do you think that the LOTR movies are among the best films ever made?

Indeed. Amongst the greatest cinematic achievements ever.

If you answered yes to one or more of these questions, your opinion is hardly surprising.

Hehe. I see what you did there ;)

Its true, I'm a pretty die hard LOTR fan, but when I say Shore was and is the best man for the job, I'm trying to say it without any bias. I mean, I genuinely believe no other composer would have achieved the same level of thematic ingenuity, the right level of balance between subtlety and bombast, and the extraordinary sense of diversity. I think if it was John Williams as the composer, he would have composed a great bombastic score with several themes, but it wouldn't have been as diverse or subtle when needed, and his style may not have been right for Jackson's intentions. If Poledouris scored the film, he would have hit the nail closer, but as mentioned before, his blockbuster style would not have been subtle enough (however, he might have been closer to Shore in terms of diversity). And I don't think both of these composers would have gone as far with the thematic relations as Shore did.

But then again, this is just my opinion. So nobody really needs to get riled up by it :P

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I think if it was John Williams as the composer, he would have composed a great bombastic score with several themes, but it wouldn't have been as diverse or subtle when needed, and his style may not have been right for Jackson's intentions.

This comment alone proves that you don't actually know John Williams' oeuvre well enough.

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I'm not so sure about that. John Williams is my favourite composer after all, and his scores obviously showcase an extraordinary sense of diversity. If JW scored LOTR, no doubt he would have provided a very diverse score in terms of tone and flavour and such. But I don't think he would have done as Shore in the sense of instrumental and textural diversity. For instance, Williams may gave given similarly toned female choral tone for the elves. But I don't think he would have went in the direction that Shore explored such as given Lothlorien exotic eastern tones (which work brilliantly for the film). I don't think many composers would have gone as far as giving Mordor a Rhaita reed to accent the theme, representing Rohan with a Hardangar fiddle, adding sitars to the Lothlorien music and etc.

Then again, its really to tell what Williams would have done. I'm quite aware of Williams' diversity, and his countless classics showcase that. I guess when I think of Williams scoring LOTR, I keep thinking Star Wars (which is clearly not right). Perhaps its because of the similar leitmotivic techniques. Perhaps I should also correct myself and say that Williams would have served the films with subtlety when needed as shown through his fantastic subtle works.

In the end, I believe Williams can do anything, and as I've said before, he would crafted some great scores for LOTR. I'm a huge JW fan after all (favourite composer, great idol, etc.). I just believe that even he might not have nailed the films as well as Shore did.

At this point, this conversation might be getting redundant. There are composers such as JW who would have done a fine job with LOTR (as with any film in JW's case), but just not as good as Shore. Thats just what I think. Simple enough, I suppose. :)

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This comment alone proves that you don't actually know John Williams' oeuvre well enough.

Peter Jackson wanted a composer to work on his project for a number of years. This almost automatically rules out Williams, who would have been too expensive, and besides his film score career he also have a concert career.

It would have been interesting though to see what Williams would have done.

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It would have been interesting though to see what Williams would have done.

Start with Harry Potter, add a heaping of Revenge of the Sith, mix in a dash of The Patriot, and sprinkle a pinch of Jane Eyre. Stir thoroughly.

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It's interesting to speculate on what JW interpretation would be for a fantasy film like LOTR. He would be forced to leaving all the Indiana Jones, Star Wars brass blasts behind because it wouldn't be in good taste.

I know people give stories about typecasting not existing with very best of actors, composers & directors but I can't think of a fantasy film like LOTR that Williams has scored. Very deep thoughtful & meaningful storytelling. I've always liked Williams scores from films where he can't "phone in" his abilities like ( War of the Worlds, Catch me if you can & some of his early career stuff). Sad to say that although Tintin sounds fresh its melodic material is pretty derivative of Indiana Jones, Harry Potter, Catch me if you can, Terminal and Hook. At another level though, I can't blame Williams for rehashing some of this because it does work well ( ie for the Haddick character ) and it is after all cartoony, it's not supposed to be really intellectual.

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At another level though, I can't blame Williams for rehashing some of this because it does work well ( ie for the Haddick character ) and it is after all cartoony, it's not supposed to be really intellectual.

If you think Shore's LOTR scores are more 'intellectual' because they are heavy, slow and portentous, i can relieve you.

I always thought Jackson's often inflated orgies of opulence would have been better served by a more lean and economical Goldsmith swansong (not that it was ever in the cards), Williams' tendencies to over-grandiose on already over-grandiose images seems more burden than virtue in case of LOTR.

Shore did his duties well, and certainly almost killed himself several times to keep up with Jackson, but often enough his dramatic instincts seem not sharp enough, almost muddled in sturdy orchestrations and a general feeling of dread and slowness to everything he scores. I always felt that the whole saga sounded much too amorphous.

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<< Shore did his duties well, and certainly almost killed himself several times to keep up with Jackson, but often enough his dramatic instincts seem not sharp enough, almost muddled in sturdy orchestrations and a general feeling of dread and slowness to everything he scores. I always felt that the whole saga sounded much too amorphous. >>

He definitely doesn't have the same tempo range as JW (fast, slow etc). I too feel that there were times where the film dragged and the music could have pushed forward a bit more but it sounds like Shore was backseat to the visuals. The shire music was great but the problem is a lot of the underscore is just 1-2 hours of chords, yes it works and blends very well. It doesn't really have any identity though outside the film. Glad I didn't go to the LOTR symphony, I would have fallen asleep.

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Shore did his duties well, and certainly almost killed himself several times to keep up with Jackson, but often enough his dramatic instincts seem not sharp enough, almost muddled in sturdy orchestrations and a general feeling of dread and slowness to everything he scores.

Yes, qualities which quite possibly played a significant part in Jackson's desire to have Shore score the films. Fellowship in particular benefits greatly from Shore's brooding style. I think he lent the film a very real sense of doom and foreboding (as Tolkien's writing instilled in the reader) - a serious accomplishment on Shore's part. Indeed, I found the score during Frodo and Gandalf's conversation beside the hobbit hole fire to be quite terrifying.

Shore's style was perfectly suited to the material; in a way which I'm not sure Williams' own style would have been.

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Shore's style was perfectly suited to the material; in a way which I'm not sure Williams' own style would have been.

Yes it was.

But don't forget how JW comes up with stuff like the Ark theme or the darker parts of A.I. or War Horse or the mysterious and grand opening cues of E.T. or Approaching the Stones or these moments of impending doom in War of the Worlds and etc etc etc. Hell, I can almost imagine Mordor sounding like some parts of Close Encounters.

After all, weren't many people here wondering how awesome would a JW score be to that rumoured Moses film?

The diference here is that we don't know how much time and attention to detail JW could have had, or even wanted to have. Even though JW might have really ejoyed writing for such a film. Which is what we can surely say about Shore: the guy really cared. If you use massive choral sections singing in Middle-Earth languajes in an ominuous manner you have my approval :)

I was thinking on taking scenes from LotR and putting certain JW music to them to see what turned out.

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If JW were to craft an original score for LOTR, we can have a debate whether it matches up to Shore's work or excels it. But slapping on some Williams track to LOTR footage is certainly not going to be equally good to Shore's magnum opus, let alone better!!! :D

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I'm not making any statements about whether JW's LotR would be better than Shore's LotR, because I honestly don't know.

But I'm not sure where you people are deciding that Shore's work was incredibly restrained. Like some of Williams' work (ie War Horse), it contains very accessible and bombastic melodies that are made even better by the use of subtleties (thematic connections, instrumental variety, etc.). You can have your cake and eat it too - you can craft uber-emotional epic cues that also stimulate the brain (enough to warrant volumes of liner notes and a book). That's how Shore approached it. That's also how Williams would've approached it, if every post-1960s Williams fantasy blockbuster is any indication.

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Williams would have written excellent scores and possibly be 'flawed masterpieces' as his recent masterpieces are called...

But as Stefan said, his status and comittments would not have let him write the scores with as much effort and time as shore did.

Maybe in the 70's when he was known but had yet to write his better scores he could have been free enough to write wonders commiting himself fully to the project. But maybe he would have not sided with spielberg..and we would have lost more than 20 great soundtracks...

Speculation....

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If JW were to craft an original score for LOTR, we can have a debate whether it matches up to Shore's work or excels it. But slapping on some Williams track to LOTR footage is certainly not going to be equally good to Shore's magnum opus, let alone better!!! :D

Of course, I didn't mean that, that JW music is JW music thought for something else.

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Oh, I know. I wasn't picking on you :P Its just hornist's initial comment suggested that any JW track slapped onto LOTR would work better than Shore's work did. Which I felt was wrong :D

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Spielberg talks about the sequel here.

I’m not going to say which stories have been chosen for Peter Jackson’s sequel because Peter and I agreed that we weren’t going to let that information out yet. The script is now being written. It’s more than one book, but it’s not three books, so that means it’s two books. It’s two and a half books that we’re combining with The Secret of the Unicorn. And Peter will start working on the film this year. When he’s done shooting The Hobbit, he’ll begin his performance capture work with the actors later in 2012, which I’m very excited about. And of course, I’m hoping I’ll be able to direct the third one. I’d love to do the third one because I had so much fun on the first one.

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Oh wow, so Spielberg wants to do the third one. That seems to make it more likely that Williams will score the 2nd. He's never re-entered a franchise after leaving it, so he may just decide to stay onboard with Tintin 2 if he knows he'll be scoring Tintin 3. And I'm sure the studio won't deny Spielberg a chance to direct if he really wants it.,

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I seriously think we'll still have a sequel. Tintin was successful enough (although financially disappointing)...maybe its just me and my hopes for the franchise.

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They had planned a trilogy from the beginning. I'm sure if the movie bombed they'd rethink it, but my guess is all it had to be was decently successful. Luckily it was much more that decently successful.

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My guess is that there will be a sequel. But it is probably in the early stages of production so there is no news of it yet. I seem to remember reading that they had already started working on the script.

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My guess is that there will be a sequel. But it is probably in the early stages of production so there is no news of it yet. I seem to remember reading that they had already started working on the script.

There is news. They have already finished the script.

Probably not about crystal balls.

I really hope that JW gets to score it.

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My guess is that there will be a sequel. But it is probably in the early stages of production so there is no news of it yet. I seem to remember reading that they had already started working on the script.

There is news. They have already finished the script.

Probably not about crystal balls.

I really hope that JW gets to score it.

Indeed. I can't wait for him to "finish" Tintin's main theme. ;)

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Does that mean that there'll be a sequel to my review?

Mmmm...

You are such a humble man. And subtle. Without a doubt.

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