People who criticize JW music as over the top, bombastic, larger than life

[lostinspace 8]

Reading some of the reviews on amazon the odd reviewer comments that JW scores are uni-dimensional, over the top, bombastic, place too much emphasis on music etc. So I ask the question, is there any truth to this? Do people who dislike his music do so for the above reasons?

It makes me wonder what they teach in film scoring programs like USC & Berklee, as there are completely opposing views on how a scene should be scored. I know many of the film scoring academics ( if there are such people?) would despise the Hans Zimmer approach of not only having many additional composers but also writing music that is basic - horn theme over string ostinato ( think transformers). Simple though this is, it works well with a sound-effects dominated film.

There seem to be two trains of thought: the classical route which seems to be waning - remember you have to be hired by a director who can appreciate classical scoring. Or another route of performing in bands and writing pop/rock music.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The main problem is that the type of music that Williams tends to write is not in fashion at the moment.

[Quintus 5,399]

The main problem is that not everybody likes "bombast". John Williams' style is often extremely bombastic, and I love him for it.

One should try not to be quite so sensitive to opposing tastes, that's all.

[KK 3,307]

Sometimes it frustrates me when people say all Williams does is bombast. Listening to his more beautifully restrained works, thats clearly not true. Also, Williams rarely doesn't work in film, or at least thats what I believe.

To the mainstream however, only Williams' big classics stick to mind, and thu he is ultimately defined by his more fanfaric stuff. Perhaps its just that this style has been around for a while, so people probably automatically latch on to something new. This is what makes guys like Reznor and Ross so popular with their work adorned by some film critics. They're prominent rock stars who are trying something new pushig their style onto a different, traditional based genre of music. Are they introducing something new to the mainstream? Well droning has been around for a while, their previous reputation as artists make it appear as if they're revolutionaries. For that, film critics feel the need to praise them for such. Does any of their work make sense as traditional film scores? Not really.

Essentially, in today's world, if you're a pop artist and you were to try a score on a critically acclaimed film, you'll be piling up on awards. And with that, I think I've officially gone off topic...

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Listening to his more beautifully restrained works, thats clearly not true.

A lot of his "restrained" works are still BIG in perhaps a subdued way. Melodramatic is the right word here I believe.

Same concept, just quieter dynamics and tempo.

[Ricard 2,245]

Sometimes it frustrates me when people say all Williams does is bombast. Listening to his more beautifully restrained works, thats clearly not true.

I think if it was John Williams as the composer, he would have composed a great bombastic score with several themes, but it wouldn't have been as diverse or subtle when needed

A lot of his "restrained" works are still BIG in perhaps a subdued way..

And a lot of them aren't.

[KK 3,307]

Listening to his more beautifully restrained works, thats clearly not true.

A lot of his "restrained" works are still BIG in perhaps a subdued way. Melodramatic is the right word here I believe.

Same concept, just quieter dynamics and tempo.

A lot of his restraned works are not as you say. An example? Presumed Innocent. Besides the main title and the end credits, a pretty quiet score, but bloody brilliant.

Sometimes it frustrates me when people say all Williams does is bombast. Listening to his more beautifully restrained works, thats clearly not true.

I think if it was John Williams as the composer, he would have composed a great bombastic score with several themes, but it wouldn't have been as diverse or subtle when needed

I should have seen this coming

I now admit I phrased that comment entirely wrong. I always meant to say that Williams would have composed a great score, an arguably would have been a modern classic (much like Shore's is now), but I don't think it would have been AS good as Shore's is. And since he was quite busy at the time, I don't think he would had the time to commit himself to re-creating the thematic integrity that Shore created and Williams did himself with Star Wars. Moreover, Williams just would not have worked well with Jackson on that project (I say this because I think they'll be awesome with the Tintin sequel) because of the hectic nature of the process (with Jackson throwing in crazy shots last minute and such). Shore was practically dying with it, not sure if Williams could have committed as much with all the high profile assignments he had at th time.

[lostinspace 8]

Listening to his more beautifully restrained works, thats clearly not true.

A lot of his "restrained" works are still BIG in perhaps a subdued way. Melodramatic is the right word here I believe.

Same concept, just quieter dynamics and tempo.

Very True - Take Accidental Tourist, Presumed Innocent or A.I for example. The melodic material though quiet, is very Direct, very literal. When JW write he writes a melodic line or melody with such precision ( almost mathematically and predictable) - On the other hand his action material is what I would call - hodge podge at times (i mean the orchestration is all over the place, - War Horse is the complete opposite!)

Howard shore doesn't care so much for the precision - alot of the melodies he writes don't follow a strict construct and can meander. Listen to the Hugo soundtrack, he doesn't write as literal as Williams so the material is not as catchy.

I know JW can write both - Munich soundtrack is excellent but was not catchy and to it's disadvantage ( because it blends so well) it is not one to go down in history of soundtracks. He tends to err on the melodramatic - I guess that is why he is hired.

The one thing the JW , Alan Silvestri, Desplat, Shore etc have going for them is because they write primarily for orchestra, their works will not date as badly as synth composers. Zimmers early synth stuff does sound distinctly 1980's.

[KK 3,307]

Listening to his more beautifully restrained works, thats clearly not true.

A lot of his "restrained" works are still BIG in perhaps a subdued way. Melodramatic is the right word here I believe.

Same concept, just quieter dynamics and tempo.

Very True - Take Accidental Tourist or A.I for example. The melodic material though quiet, is very Direct, very literal. When JW write he writes a melodic line or melody with such precision ( almost mathematically and predictable) - On the other hand his action material is what I would call - hodge podge at times (i mean the orchestration is all over the place, - War Horse is the complete opposite!)

Hodge podge?! The orchestration of Williams' works are pristine (with the brilliant help of Conrad Pope). Just because its detailed and diverse, it doesn't make it "hodge podge".

Howard shore doesn't care so much for the precision - alot of the melodies he writes don't follow a strict construct and can meander. Listen to the Hugo soundtrack, he doesn't write as literal as Williams so the material is not as catchy.

I wouldn't say that. Shore follows very structure driven concepts for most of the films he scores and always takes an intelligent approach to mimicking whats on screen with the score. When he composes a thematic driven score, he often pays attention to them with great detail. They may not be as bold as Williams' themes, but in scores like LOTR and Hugo, the material you call "meandering" are really harmonies and progressions of the themes in a variety of places. And Shore can compose catcy material, as shown by LOTR. Hugo is a charming score too with great themes!

[indy4 155]

The thing with John Williams is that he is able to be bombastic and accessible while still including incredibly thought-out subtleties that really take a proper study session to understand. He stimulates both the mind and the heart--usually these reviewers assume that these qualities are mutually exclusive.

[A24 4,331]

When will Lucas let somebody rescore his Star Wars films with staccato strings sequences? Isn't that how he originally envisioned it? I mean, he should do something because new teenagers don't rate his movies that highly anymore. The old-fashioned scores could have something to do with that.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The problem with film music today ios that many expect it to JUST help in supporting the movie. Many directors, some critics and indeed part of the audience resent it when the score becomes an actual character in the film.

That;'s why when you listen to many modern scores outside of the film, it all feels a bit thin.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

They're teaching film music as part of sound design these days. Literally. There's combined sound design/film scoring classes you can take.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

the shame is that with the actual trend, that POW is subconsciously getting into my head too.

After so many modernscored films (and williams dry years), i found the tintin score to be over noticeable. I am past that thank god. The score is great but i despise me for that 1st impresion

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You really suck!

They're teaching film music as part of sound design these days. Literally. There's combined sound design/film scoring classes you can take.

The new generation of film composers will be just that. film composers/sound designers.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

and with samples geting better and better, orchestras will soon be obsolete

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Welcome to the future.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

It comes from people being trained to write music for film, not just to write good music.

From a film point of view, both approaches have their merits, although I personally enjoy a good piece of orchestral film music more than the stuff that makes every movie sound like a two-hour trailer.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No they are trained to write SOLELY film music, without regards of how it would stand apart.

[crocodile 8,006]

The problem with film music today ios that many expect it to JUST help in supporting the movie. Many directors, some critics and indeed part of the audience resent it when the score becomes an actual character in the film.

It is really ironic, because it is the modern music that I feel spoon-feeds the audience and pounds them into submission. You have to at least train your ears to hear everyhting in the old type of music. You know, the stuff you don't notice on first hearing.

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

There's too many engineers writing movie scores now; they find the software more exciting than the artistry.

[aj_vader 534]

There's too many engineers writing movie scores now; they find the software more exciting than the artistry.

I agree, but its selling and their earning a living from it. Also movie studios seem to be happy with these composers.

[Datameister 2,042]

I think there are a few different qualities we're talking about in this thread. One is the bombastic bigness that you find in some of Williams' scores, another is the classically-trained traditional-ness you find in most of his scores, and still another is simply how much the music draws attention to itself. There are certainly people who think Williams' oeuvre is all Korngoldian fanfares and ostinati and marches and whatnot, and they're objectively wrong...end of story. Then there are people who prefer the more popular-music-based approach of Zimmer et al. over the more traditional orchestral idioms that Williams uses, which is a totally legitimate preference, even if we all disagree with it.

But then there's the topic of the music drawing attention to itself, which I find to be the most interesting issue of the three. Williams' music tends to be so melodic, memorable, and theme-based that it draws a lot more attention to itself than many film composers' music does. It has a certain "star quality" to it that makes you a little more inclined to pay attention to it. That's part of why films like Star Wars created so many Williams fans - not only was the film popular, and not only was the music enjoyable on its own, but the music in the context of the film draws attention to itself. Some people think film music shouldn't do that. They think it should fade into the background and simply guide our emotional reactions on a subconscious level. Personally, I'd argue that this sometimes helps the film, but it almost always results in the music being a lot more boring.

I've gotten to the point where I think some of Williams' music is actually a bit too much for the films it was written for. And I'm very happy it is, because it's part of why the music itself is so enjoyable, regardless of how it functions in the film. The purpose of film music is to work in the context of the film, but my primary interest is in how they work as a standalone work of art, so if a cue or score is so great that it overpowers the film, I really don't mind.

and with samples geting better and better, orchestras will soon be obsolete

It'll never happen. Sample libraries will continue to produce more and more realistic-sounding music, and so they'll be used more widely, but we won't see the orchestra become obsolete.

[Thor 7,495]

I encounter this attitude now and then, although it isn't often that I meet people who have heard about Williams in the first place. I don't make much of a fuss about it. Of course, I could refer them to his more avantgarde work (IMAGES, concert works), the more restrained scores, the jazz things etc. Just to show that he's more than just fanfares and pastiche of classical composers or whatever. But ultimately, it isn't much of a point. I don't really get riled up about it. Just smile it away or something. I know that they don't know better, basing it on only a few, extremely popular scores or themes in that tradition.

[indy4 155]

I think there are a few different qualities we're talking about in this thread. One is the bombastic bigness that you find in some of Williams' scores, another is the classically-trained traditional-ness you find in most of his scores, and still another is simply how much the music draws attention to itself. There are certainly people who think Williams' oeuvre is all Korngoldian fanfares and ostinati and marches and whatnot, and they're objectively wrong...end of story. Then there are people who prefer the more popular-music-based approach of Zimmer et al. over the more traditional orchestral idioms that Williams uses, which is a totally legitimate preference, even if we all disagree with it.

But then there's the topic of the music drawing attention to itself, which I find to be the most interesting issue of the three. Williams' music tends to be so melodic, memorable, and theme-based that it draws a lot more attention to itself than many film composers' music does. It has a certain "star quality" to it that makes you a little more inclined to pay attention to it. That's part of why films like Star Wars created so many Williams fans - not only was the film popular, and not only was the music enjoyable on its own, but the music in the context of the film draws attention to itself. Some people think film music shouldn't do that. They think it should fade into the background and simply guide our emotional reactions on a subconscious level. Personally, I'd argue that this sometimes helps the film, but it almost always results in the music being a lot more boring.

I've gotten to the point where I think some of Williams' music is actually a bit too much for the films it was written for. And I'm very happy it is, because it's part of why the music itself is so enjoyable, regardless of how it functions in the film. The purpose of film music is to work in the context of the film, but my primary interest is in how they work as a standalone work of art, so if a cue or score is so great that it overpowers the film, I really don't mind.

I agree with every word in this post.

[lostinspace 8]

I think there are a few different qualities we're talking about in this thread. One is the bombastic bigness that you find in some of Williams' scores, another is the classically-trained traditional-ness you find in most of his scores, and still another is simply how much the music draws attention to itself. There are certainly people who think Williams' oeuvre is all Korngoldian fanfares and ostinati and marches and whatnot, and they're objectively wrong...end of story. Then there are people who prefer the more popular-music-based approach of Zimmer et al. over the more traditional orchestral idioms that Williams uses, which is a totally legitimate preference, even if we all disagree with it.

But then there's the topic of the music drawing attention to itself, which I find to be the most interesting issue of the three. Williams' music tends to be so melodic, memorable, and theme-based that it draws a lot more attention to itself than many film composers' music does. It has a certain "star quality" to it that makes you a little more inclined to pay attention to it. That's part of why films like Star Wars created so many Williams fans - not only was the film popular, and not only was the music enjoyable on its own, but the music in the context of the film draws attention to itself. Some people think film music shouldn't do that. They think it should fade into the background and simply guide our emotional reactions on a subconscious level. Personally, I'd argue that this sometimes helps the film, but it almost always results in the music being a lot more boring.

I've gotten to the point where I think some of Williams' music is actually a bit too much for the films it was written for. And I'm very happy it is, because it's part of why the music itself is so enjoyable, regardless of how it functions in the film. The purpose of film music is to work in the context of the film, but my primary interest is in how they work as a standalone work of art, so if a cue or score is so great that it overpowers the film, I really don't mind.

and with samples geting better and better, orchestras will soon be obsolete

It'll never happen. Sample libraries will continue to produce more and more realistic-sounding music, and so they'll be used more widely, but we won't see the orchestra become obsolete.

I agree. Now more then ever the composer or sound designer has to stand up for the music they write! If they don't the special effects sounds just drive over the music. On a sidenote, I felt the balance between sound fx and music in Tintin was excellent.

I guess we can conclude from this discussion that in order for a film soundtrack to have any longevity it either has to stand on its own two feet outside the film and/or be married to the film e.g. Jaws. OR has some catchy pop song.

[Hlao-roo 389]

A Film Critic's Guide to Film Scores

Sound design = always subtle and inventive

Orchestral scores = always bombastic and manipulative*

^{* OK to say positive things about Alexandre Desplat, will still maintain cachet}

[karelm 2,913]

The main problem is that not everybody likes "bombast". John Williams' style is often extremely bombastic, and I love him for it.

One should try not to be quite so sensitive to opposing tastes, that's all.

I don't think its a problem with bombast that people don't like - listen to Zimmer's very popular Inception, Batman, Pirates of the Caribbean, etc., these are more bombastic than anything JW has done - I think it is more that those scores are for ADD audiences that need to be kept awake with high energy rhythms and way over the top orchestration. Scores that rely on subtle nuance, refined craftsmanship, and dramatic sensibilities are not as popular because they'll require more effort from an audience to wrap their heads around. I think the issue is melody and structure are not in vogue these days. My hope and belief is it will stand the test of time and survive better than the fad of what's the flavor of the month, but that is not the popular opinion. Melody is old fashion these days and most directors want to be the next big thing rather than hold on to the tradition.

[KK 3,307]

This is kind of off topic, but I stumbled upon the track "Under the Midnight Sun" from the TGWTDT score on youtube and I read this comment:

"FRACKIN FANTASTIC!! Four thumbs and big toes up for TRENT and his awesome theatrical acheivement, well done Trent, Well well done; I smell another Oscar for the Mozart of our time......well done sir, the greatest musical genius anyone can try to argue!!!!!"

I just died a little on the inside.....

If you appreciate the music in context, I can understand (although I'd disagree), but ranking a guy who plays a single note for 3 hours on his synthesizer amongst the greatest of legends is blasphemy. Honestly listening to those tracks, I can't understand why people "enjoy" this music as a stand a lone listen. Although I haven't watched the film yet, TSN's score was hardly there in the film.

Regardless, youtube comments are depressing

[Thor 7,495]

Reznor is a great composer (Ross too!), and both SOCIAL NETWORK and DRAGON TATOO are brilliant scores -- both in and out of the film -- but of course -- comparing ANY current composer to Mozart is silly in and of itself, whoever it is.

[Salacius 7]

Well, people who say stuff like that don't know shit, bombastic??? WTF???

If the scene calls for it yeah, sure but it's not like the guy chooses one chord and hits it until we are bored to tears.

There is sophistication . thought and complexity about what he does, even in his.... oh hell

All who talk crap about the guy just listen to the battle of Hoth and S**t the f**h up!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Reznor is a great composer (Ross too!), and both SOCIAL NETWORK and DRAGON TATOO are brilliant scores -- both in and out of the film -- but of course -- comparing ANY current composer to Mozart is silly in and of itself, whoever it is.

Can they read sheet music?

[Salacius 7]

Reznor is a great composer (Ross too!), and both SOCIAL NETWORK and DRAGON TATOO are brilliant scores -- both in and out of the film -- but of course -- comparing ANY current composer to Mozart is silly in and of itself, whoever it is.

You know, it really start to annoy me calling any computerised music or some band stuff being called a 'score'. That's not a score. That's music done by a couple of blokes in their bedrooms.

And no, I don't agree. Both Social Network and Dragon Tattoo are steaming pile of turds.

Reznor is a great composer (Ross too!), and both SOCIAL NETWORK and DRAGON TATOO are brilliant scores -- both in and out of the film -- but of course -- comparing ANY current composer to Mozart is silly in and of itself, whoever it is.

You know, it really start to annoy me calling any computerised music or some band stuff being called a 'score'. That's not a score. That's music done by a couple of blokes in their bedrooms.

And no, I don't agree. Both Social Network and Dragon Tattoo are steaming pile of turds.

Also let's see,

Sabrina, Oh the bombast

Always, Please Johnny Tooo LOUD

Empire of the Sun, how HUGE

Shindler's List, TURN IT DOWN!!!

Stepmom, I object!

Saving Private Ryan, the humanity!!!

There is time and place for larger than life orchestrations that by the way not many people can do or if they can they are forced to emulate Symphobia strings.

John writes the right music for the right moment. I am so pleased he is where he is so that he doesn't need to compromise or follow all the bollocks that goes on within this industry right now.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

You can't arbitrarily decide what a score is based on whether or not you like it.

[Salacius 7]

You can't arbitrarily decide what a score is based on whether or not you like it.

Yes I can, I am a musician my self and can tell crap music from good as actual music goes.

Look, these bands and artists (please don't use the term composers) are good for what they do on their own.

And I can see what's going on with Hollywood, they did the big orchestral thing, they did the Zimmer thing

and are now desperate to find the next 'new thing'. But for the love of God I cannot place these bands and songwriters

next to giants. Sorry, no way, nooooooo way.

[Ricard 2,245]

Reznor is a great composer (Ross too!), and both SOCIAL NETWORK and DRAGON TATOO are brilliant scores -- both in and out of the film

Arguably the best scores ever written...

[A24 4,331]

You can't arbitrarily decide what a score is based on whether or not you like it.

Yes I can, I am a musician my self and can tell crap music from good as actual music goes.

Look, these bands and artists (please don't use the term composers) are good for what they do on their own.

And I can see what's going on with Hollywood, they did the big orchestral thing, they did the Zimmer thing

and are now desperate to find the next 'new thing'. But for the love of God I cannot place these bands and songwriters

next to giants. Sorry, no way, nooooooo way.

You must listen to what they bring to the film and not to how well they are trained.

Cheesus Crust!

Alex

[Thor 7,495]

You know, it really start to annoy me calling any computerised music or some band stuff being called a 'score'. That's not a score. That's music done by a couple of blokes in their bedrooms.

And no, I don't agree. Both Social Network and Dragon Tattoo are steaming pile of turds.

And what annoys me is that people such as yourself limit the definition of music to orchestral music. That's just insane in the literal sense of the word.

However, you're free to think whatever you want of those scores, of course. I think they're some of the best things happening to film music over the last couple of years, while you obviously think the opposite. So we just have to agree to disagree on that.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I do have to agree with Thor and Alex (did Hell freeze over?).

Orchestral music is far from the only valid way to score a film.

[Ricard 2,245]

Orchestral music is far from the only valid way to score a film.

Indeed. Which doesn't mean TSN and TGWTDT are great scores. They aren't.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I haven't heard The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo.

In the film I found The Social Network to be effective and rather unusual.

It's not something I would listen to apart from the film though.

[KK 3,307]

Orchestral music is definitely not the only way to compose a great film score. Many composers have proven that electronics are equally valid methods of scoring. Prominent legends like Goldsmith and even Williams himself have proven this. But Trent Reznor and Ross' method does not tread along the line of greatness. I posted this rant on the 'Williams 6th Oscar' thread, and I'll post it here again.

To be honest, the score was barely audible in The Social Network. I could only really hear it during the rowing montage with Greig's music on synthesizer and pop music for the parties. So really, I don't think the score was effective to such an extent. Is it appropriate for the film? Yes. But the film would have worked equally fine without a score at all (thats how inaudible it was). In that regard, TSN is not really a great score that meets the Oscar "criteria" (although that changes every now and then to their comforts and need).

TSN needs a cold, more ambient kind of score. There are many atmospheric scores that would have worked better than Ross and Reznor's score. Clemmenson and Broxton bring up really good points in their reviews of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. They compose a mass of music ambient music that really pays no regard to the film. In other words, the composers compose music (more like soundscapes) that go on for minutes without much change (a.k.a. droning) so that Fincher can easily paste those snippets on to screen. A single droning note is quite apt for the cold style of Fincher's films, but that doesn't make it an effective film score. Take for instance, TWGDT. Its a cold-hearted movie, we get it. And thats why there's droning. But what about addressing the complexities and the sense being lost in Salander's character. The humane side to the characters are lost in the music. Where is the narrative in the music? Its like they composed stock music to Fincher's description of what he envisioned is the film and slapped it on the picture. It works, yes, but thats all it does. That in no way elevates the score to "best of the year", even in accordance with the Academy's criteria.

A truly great film score (in this case for a Fincher film) would perfectly address the visuals while synching up with the emotional climaxes of the narrative and the characters. Both Howard Shore and David Shire did this quite effectively with Fincher's past films (even though some of those scores may not make the best stand alone listens). The music can be cold, ambient and atmospheric while simultaneously showing purpose, definition and signifying the narrative of the film. Even Cliff Martinez does a better job with his experimental soundscapes for films like Drive (although I've never been able to enjoy scores like that). The thing about Reznor and Ross is that they fail to really address the film. A little tinkering there for mystery, and some faster loops for "action" are not what I'm talking about. With any of Fincher's recent films, a single droning note would suffice for the entire film...but that doesn't make it a great score, it only makes it appropriate at best.

Reznor and Ross have only gotten so much attention recently because they're popular artists who are trying something new in a different genre they haven't explored. Since they don't follow traditional film music, critics are manipulated into thinking they're bringing something revolutionary to the table (although droning has been around for a while now). In this regard, if any popular artist was to venture into film music with an unconventional technique, they will inevitably be showered with praise and awards (regardless of the quality of the work in its role).

So no, even when judging to the degree of how well the music worked in film, The Social Network was most definitely not the best score of last year and nor is TGWTDT.

Hopefully that made sense...

Seriously, I cannot understand the hype behind these works. Definitely not good scores, let alone great. Electronic scores can be great when done properly, this is not one of those cases...well at least in my opinion.

- KK

[Thor 7,495]

I couldn't disagree more with your rant, KK, but at least it reflects your own taste and preference and not some sort of objective fact. I love, love, love the fact that you have prominent composers from other areas trying their hands on film music, especially if their music in rock, pop, electronica, whatever have a certain dramatic sensibility to begin with. It's such a crucial and refreshing alternative to the more traditional/conventional composers.

[Ricard 2,245]

I couldn't disagree more with your rant, KK, but at least it reflects your own taste and preference and not some sort of objective fact..

Should we write "in my opinion" in every post?

I love, love, love the fact that you have prominent composers from other areas trying their hands on film music, especially if their music in rock, pop, electronica, whatever have a certain dramatic sensibility to begin with. It's such a crucial and refreshing alternative to the more traditional/conventional composers.

I definitely agree with that.

[KK 3,307]

I couldn't disagree more with your rant, KK, but at least it reflects your own taste and preference and not some sort of objective fact. I love, love, love the fact that you have prominent composers from other areas trying their hands on film music, especially if their music in rock, pop, electronica, whatever have a certain dramatic sensibility to begin with. It's such a crucial and refreshing alternative to the more traditional/conventional composers.

Cool, we agree to disagree then

I understand what you mean. I mean hey, look at where guys like Danny Elfman and Michael Kamen came from! New artists should be welcomed. Its just, if new artists bring something interesting and effective to the table, great. But Reznor failed to do that with me. I mean I personally cannot find anything very dramatic about droning. Also, I feel their film scores don't reflect the films, so I don't really see any merit to their scores at all (either as a stand alone listen or a score in context with the film). But pop artists trying something new = overblown critical praise from film critics.

[Ricard 2,245]

I feel their film scores don't reflect the films, so I don't really see any merit to their scores at all (either as a stand alone listen or a score in context with the film). But pop artists trying something new = overblown critical praise from film critics.

Exactly.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But that is basically the norm these days anyway. Even with orchestral scores.

[Salacius 7]

You can't arbitrarily decide what a score is based on whether or not you like it.

Yes I can, I am a musician my self and can tell crap music from good as actual music goes.

Look, these bands and artists (please don't use the term composers) are good for what they do on their own.

And I can see what's going on with Hollywood, they did the big orchestral thing, they did the Zimmer thing

and are now desperate to find the next 'new thing'. But for the love of God I cannot place these bands and songwriters

next to giants. Sorry, no way, nooooooo way.

You must listen to what they bring to the film and not to how well they are trained.

Cheesus Crust!

Alex

Nope sorry, that doesn't work for me buddy. You gotta know your shit to be up there with the best.

Bands and 'composers' that don't know what's what never really impressed me. So I stand by my opinion.

[Ricard 2,245]

But that is basically the norm these days anyway. Even with orchestral scores.

Of course.

You gotta know your shit to be up there with the best.

I agree.

[Salacius 7]

You know, it really start to annoy me calling any computerised music or some band stuff being called a 'score'. That's not a score. That's music done by a couple of blokes in their bedrooms.

And no, I don't agree. Both Social Network and Dragon Tattoo are steaming pile of turds.

And what annoys me is that people such as yourself limit the definition of music to orchestral music. That's just insane in the literal sense of the word.

I didn't mate, scoring refers to the craft of multiple instruments composed and orchestrated for various ensamples.

Songs have a melody and a couple of chords and electronic music is put together with an electronic sequencer.

I couldn't disagree more with your rant, KK, but at least it reflects your own taste and preference and not some sort of objective fact. I love, love, love the fact that you have prominent composers from other areas trying their hands on film music, especially if their music in rock, pop, electronica, whatever have a certain dramatic sensibility to begin with. It's such a crucial and refreshing alternative to the more traditional/conventional composers.

Cool, we agree to disagree then

I understand what you mean. I mean hey, look at where guys like Danny Elfman and Michael Kamen came from! New artists should be welcomed. Its just, if new artists bring something interesting and effective to the table, great. But Reznor failed to do that with me. I mean I personally cannot find anything very dramatic about droning. Also, I feel their film scores don't reflect the films, so I don't really see any merit to their scores at all (either as a stand alone listen or a score in context with the film). But pop artists trying something new = overblown critical praise from film critics.

Amen brother, Amen to that