Artist is 20% Herrmann -- Does this mean Williams has a better chance?

[Alejandro 26]

http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/not-everyone-loves-the-artist-kim-novak-feels-violated-by-use-of-vertigo-score/#more-211874

Kim Novak argues that The Artist uses Herrmann's score as its own. If Academy voters agree, does that mean they'll opt for Williams' War Horse for Best Original Score??

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Well this fact should. And also that 68% of it is mediocre.

[Romão 2,274]

I also heard another piece from the Artist that was in my mind a complete pastiche of Waxman's Bride of Frankenstein

[Quintus 5,399]

I'm beginning to get really concerned that this film is turning into this year's The King's Speech.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Or The Queen

[Quintus 5,399]

Yeah.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Brit cinema has a lot to answer for.

[Quintus 5,399]

It seems like every fucking year there's a a Four Weddings and a Sliding Doors. I wish they'd all just piss off.

[King Mark 3,631]

Lets face it, War Horse wasn't a great movie. I don't think it will be nominated for much

[Quintus 5,399]

Not seen it.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well it's okay. But it doesn't linger in you memory for very long

Like people ask me what movies I've seen lately and I always forget War horse

[Quintus 5,399]

I've got a 'screener' of it, but I'm gonna hold out for the cinema viewing.

Hopefully the cinematography will be worth it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well it's okay. But it doesn't linger in you memory for very long

Like people ask me what movies I've seen lately and I always forget War horse

The same with the score. I find Tintin having a far longer lasting effect on me the War Horse.

[indy4 155]

These claims are ridiculous. The Vertigo cue fit The Artist perfectly, credit was given, it's a non-issue. If anything I find Kim Novak to be the offensive one, claiming that "It was our work that unconsciously or consciously evoked the memories and feelings to the audience that were used for the climax of ‘The Artist,'" as if a score derives most of its impact from the visuals it accompanies. Why can't the music in itself be the source of emotion?

A better statement would be one just warning the Academy that this final cue was not original. I don't want voters to vote The Artist for best score based on Herrmann's work, but there's no need to get angry over it.

The Artist was a fantastic film with a good score. In fact, I just barely prefer the film to War Horse, even though I love both (scorewise, War Horse wins easily).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Why did they steal Herrmann's music anyway? it's not relevant to the period of the film.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I hate when they track music from other unrelated films.

If i would be a composer that would piss me off more than editing, hacking to pieces.. etc.

[Quintus 5,399]

Why did they steal Herrmann's music anyway? it's not relevant to the period of the film.

Come now, there's no need to be sensational (again). The music is borrowed, quite deliberately. The Herrmann piece is quickly becoming timeless, it already effortlessly transcends Vertigo.

Novak is unwittingly undermining the work, which is a shame.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

for that We should be grateful.

all these critics that say war horse score is over the top are doing the same...

[Matt C 454]

These claims are ridiculous. The Vertigo cue fit The Artist perfectly, credit was given, it's a non-issue. If anything I find Kim Novak to be the offensive one, claiming that "It was our work that unconsciously or consciously evoked the memories and feelings to the audience that were used for the climax of ‘The Artist,'" as if a score derives most of its impact from the visuals it accompanies. Why can't the music in itself be the source of emotion?

This. Novak's claims are just over-exaggerated and offensive -- honestly, comparing it to rape? That's just tasteless.

Furthermore, the company licensed the rights to the music, so it was legally obtained.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I think it happens too often - repurposing another score for whatever needs (yes, you Tarantino). It can certainly work, but I sometimes wonder why, especially with something like VERTIGO, which is at least known to film nerds if not the general populace. It can be pretty jarring to watch a movie and hear a piece of film music you're familiar with (although admittedly I rehaven't seen the film in question), although at least it does feature original score as well. That said, Novak's comments were a bit OTT, but I can understand them, even if she is a bit nuts.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Why did they steal Herrmann's music anyway? it's not relevant to the period of the film.

The director explains the choice of the Herrmann piece here:

AT: The choice of music does a lot for the film, especially at the end.

MH: I worked with the composer, Ludovic Bource—I've worked with him now for 15 years, so we are very close. But this one was particularly difficult to do because he had to respect the spirit of all the great Hollywood classical composers. But also he had to respect the structure of the script and the story. And that was very difficult because he really had to follow the story. I am in charge of the storytelling, so he had to accept that I made the decision of what the music had to be. So it was very difficult for him. And he did a really great job.

AT: But you end up with "Vertigo," Bernard Hermann?

MH: Yeah, Vertigo. Bernard, in my mind, was a genius. He was a wonderful composer, and actually there's some tribute to Bernard Hermann in the movie in terms of the score, to "Citizen Kane." If you know the score, you recognize some parts. It's like a musical citation.

AT: When he goes into into the room and discovers all his stuff?

MH: No, this is more Franz Waxman in "Sunset Boulevard." When he goes out of the theater after seeing the movie, there's a number in the score that is like the opening of "Citizen Kane," the aria. But "Vertigo" is very beautiful. And I wanted something specific for the moment at the end, something very beautiful. And when I put the" Vertigo" love theme, it was completely perfect. So the composer tried to make something close to that, but finally I decided to keep it because it was much better.

I saw the movie last week and enjoyed it a lot. It's not the masterpiece someone says it is, but it's a heartfelt love letter to the Golden Age of Hollywood. It's not Singin' in the Rain of course, but if you love movies it's impossibile to leave the theater without a big grin on your face. Luodovic Bource's score is a nice pastiche work of everything from Steiner to Waxman and Herrmann. The use of Vertigo's "Scene d'Amour" in the climax of the film is surely effective. In terms of Oscar eligibility, the problem is that the sequence is the single cue you probably will notice the most (even though the film has prominent music from the first frame to the last) because the sequence is the emotional peak of the film, hence why the dumb Academy voters will likely think it's an original piece by Bource and will hand him the Oscar (much like happened with Santolalla and the Sakamoto piece used in Babel).

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Novak is unwittingly undermining the work, which is a shame.

What do you expect from a senile old bat?

[Wojo 2,453]

I hate when they track music from other unrelated films.

If i would be a composer that would piss me off more than editing, hacking to pieces.. etc.

I feel your pain and anguish. You, and many like you who post here, are a self-proclaimed film score fan, and revere the genre. But to the folks who make movies, film music is, at the end of the day, simply another type of music. Another building block in the toy chest.

Therefore, cutting up music from another film is no different than lifting pieces of music from the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries commonly pigeon-holed as "classical" -- 2001 did it to great effect after abandoning its original score. Or films like Forrest Gump which augment original score with a helluva lot of "songs." Or films like American Graffiti or Pulp Fiction, which only use "songs" as background music. If you're a filmmaker, and you have the rights to the music, and you can afford it, then it's a viable option.

[Ricard 2,245]

You, and many like you who post here, are a self-proclaimed film score fan, and revere the genre. But to the folks who make movies, film music is, at the end of the day, simply another type of music. Another building block in the toy chest.

Many of the folks who make movies are also self-proclaimed film score fans. Unfortunately some of them worship Zimmer

[Romão 2,274]

Well, they are not using music from another medium and using it in a new, different way in a medium other than the original. They are using a piece written for the very same medium to try convey, I reckon, a very similar effect. I haven't seen the movie, but it seems a bit of creative shortcut

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I don't count songs because, with obvious exceptions, they're not generally created to serve a film. It's like Tarantino and his Morricone obsession. It sticks out like a sore thumb and it just makes me think 'Dude, if you jizz over his music this much, get him to write a freaking score for you.'

[Matt C 454]

I think it happens too often - repurposing another score for whatever needs (yes, you Tarantino). It can certainly work, but I sometimes wonder why, especially with something like VERTIGO, which is at least known to film nerds if not the general populace. It can be pretty jarring to watch a movie and hear a piece of film music you're familiar with (although admittedly I rehaven't seen the film in question), although at least it does feature original score as well. That said, Novak's comments were a bit OTT, but I can understand them, even if she is a bit nuts.

She's just a senile old bat. She hasn't worked in the industry for two decades, she doesn't know about temp-tracking and all that. That's still no excuse for accusing the director for 'stealing' the Vertigo music. She ought to be thankful the filmmakers love the movie and want to pay tribute to it by licensing one cue.

One cue. It's not like they temp-tracked the entire score of The Artist with Hermann music.

[TownerFan 4,983]

The Artist won the first important award of the season:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/critics-choice-movie-awards-winners-artist-281281

[Once 605]

http://www.slashfilm.com/thomas-newman-michael-giacchino-97-scores-eligible-original-score/

To be eligible, the original score must be a substantial body of music that serves as original dramatic underscoring, and must be written specifically for the motion picture by the submitting composer. Scores diluted by the use of tracked themes or other preexisting music, diminished in impact by the predominant use of songs, or assembled from the music of more than one composer shall not be eligible.

[crocodile 8,012]

It's all nonsense! Herrmann wrote the music for Lady Gaga:

Karol

[Neimoidian 14]

This. Novak's claims are just over-exaggerated and offensive -- honestly, comparing it to rape? That's just tasteless.

Imagine what orgy it must have been composing Star Wars.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

The Artist won the first important award of the season:

http://www.hollywood...s-artist-281281

good, the geisha setting could be getting into motion

[Neimoidian 14]

good, the geisha setting could be getting into motion

It works only with JW.

[Ricard 2,245]

Bource is gonna win tonight.

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=1741

[mrbellamy 6,286]

I don't count songs because, with obvious exceptions, they're not generally created to serve a film. It's like Tarantino and his Morricone obsession. It sticks out like a sore thumb and it just makes me think 'Dude, if you jizz over his music this much, get him to write a freaking score for you.'

That actually reminds me of a quote from QT himself, on an interview found on the Pulp Fiction soundtrack:

When you take songs and put them in a sequence in a movie right, it's about as cinematic a thing as you can do. I mean, you're really doing what movies do better than any other art form. It really works in this visceral, emotional, cinematic way that's just really special. And when you hit it right, the effect is you can never really hear that song again without thinking about that image from the movie.You are just such a poser and such a lame-o for using a song that another movie has already christened. I mean, they've used "Stand By Me" so many times, but to me, the one that used "Stand By Me" in the way is in The Wanderers. They're playing "Stand By Me" as the lead character Ken Wahl realizes JFK's been shot...and it's perfect. All those other movies, even Stand By Me, are posers by that. You can't use "Stand By Me" after The Wanderers. When Dirty Dancing used "Be My Baby", it was like...'"that is the opening theme to Mean Streets? Excuse me?" I mean, you know? Whenever I hear "Be My Baby", I see Harvey Keitel leaning back on his pillow...

I guess he changed his mind

http://www.slashfilm...original-score/

To be eligible, the original score must be a substantial body of music that serves as original dramatic underscoring, and must be written specifically for the motion picture by the submitting composer. Scores diluted by the use of tracked themes or other preexisting music, diminished in impact by the predominant use of songs, or assembled from the music of more than one composer shall not be eligible.

The music branch has always been wildly inconsistent with this rule. One year they actually give Babel the Oscar, the next they disqualify There Will Be Blood. The score for Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince was rendered ineligible for its use of tracked music (from the same series AND composer, no less), the next year Black Swan and True Grit were disqualified for using pre-existing themes, yet now The Artist is eligible, despite the fact that it tracks in pre-existing music.

Bource is gonna win tonight.

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=1741

Yeah, easily, especially considering Johnny is one of War Horse's only two nominations.

[Neimoidian 14]

Having heard that score today I have no dobut.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

at least Williams should win the annie award.

in a just world.

[MSM 126]

I hate when they track music from other unrelated films.

If i would be a composer that would piss me off more than editing, hacking to pieces.. etc.

What annoys me is when (generally younger) people think that the tracked music is actually originally written for the new film. Like poeple talking about the 'theme from Inglorious Bastards', while of course it is the great Alamo theme by Dmitri Tiomkin.

Or worse, there are really people who think Alexandre Desplat is the best composer ever, because of the epilogue and the underscore to the speech in The King's Speech... (2x Beethoven)