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2012 Oscar Discussion Thread (Tintin and War Horse nominated for Best Original Score!)

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A score half composed by orchestrators, music from Vertigo...what a fucking shambles.

The reason for the Vertigo music in film was only due to the fact that the director wanted the film out for the film festival and the music couldn't be done in time, so the director used the Vertigo music. Bource did however compose music for that scene and its on the album.

Calm down people, yes the maestro lost undeservedly, but personally I think The Artist got the most deserving win since Return of the King...

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Bource did however compose music for that scene and its on the album.

Irrelevant! If its not in the film, it cannot be taken into consideration.

Why didn't they put the Bource there afterwards?

Because Herrmann is better, most likely.

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A score half composed by orchestrators, music from Vertigo...what a fucking shambles.

The reason for the Vertigo music in film was only due to the fact that the director wanted the film out for the film festival and the music couldn't be done in time, so the director used the Vertigo music. Bource did however compose music for that scene and its on the album.

Calm down people, yes the maestro lost undeservedly, but personally I think The Artist got the most deserving win since Return of the King...

Bold words, but grounded in reality. I find you agreeable.

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Bource did however compose music for that scene and its on the album.

Irrelevant! If its not in the film, it cannot be taken into consideration.

Why should Bource take the blame for the director's decision? He did his job up to the very last scene, its not his fault that Hermann took his own score's place in the end...

Why didn't they put the Bource there afterwards?

Because Herrmann is better, most likely.

Probably too much effort, or the director ended up liking Vertigo placed at the end. He was fond of the film and its score, so he might have considered it as an apt way to pay homage to it...

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A score half composed by orchestrators, music from Vertigo...what a fucking shambles.

The reason for the Vertigo music in film was only due to the fact that the director wanted the film out for the film festival and the music couldn't be done in time, so the director used the Vertigo music. Bource did however compose music for that scene and its on the album.

Calm down people, yes the maestro lost undeservedly, but personally I think The Artist got the most deserving win since Return of the King...

Bold words, but grounded in reality. I find you agreeable.

Well think about it. Did the Artist deserve the Oscar? No, Tintin and War Horse were far greater scores and one of them (personally I think War Horse) should have taken the damn thing home.

But lets look back a little bit:

2004 - Finding Neverland

2005 - Brokeback Mountain

2006 - Babel

2007 - Atonement

2008 - Slumdog Millionaire

2009 - Up

2010 - The Social Network

2011 - The Artist

There are some good scores on that list, but The Artist is about as close as the Academy got to getting it right in 7 years. Its quite sad if you think about it, but its the truth.

Hopefully they'll finally get it right again for the next ceremony (with what I assume will be The Hobbit)!

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A score half composed by orchestrators, music from Vertigo...what a fucking shambles.

The reason for the Vertigo music in film was only due to the fact that the director wanted the film out for the film festival and the music couldn't be done in time, so the director used the Vertigo music. Bource did however compose music for that scene and its on the album.

Calm down people, yes the maestro lost undeservedly, but personally I think The Artist got the most deserving win since Return of the King...

Bold words, but grounded in reality. I find you agreeable.

Well think about it. Did the Artist deserve the Oscar? No, Tintin and War Horse were far greater scores and one of them (personally I think War Horse) should have taken the damn thing home.

But lets look back a little bit:

2004 - Finding Neverland

2005 - Brokeback Mountain

2006 - Babel

2007 - Atonement

2008 - Slumdog Millionaire

2009 - Up

2010 - The Social Network

2011 - The Artist

There are some good scores on that list, but The Artist is about as close as the Academy got to getting it right in 7 years. Its quite sad if you think about it, but its the truth.

Hopefully they'll finally get it right again for the next ceremony (with what I assume will be The Hobbit)!

Reading this, I wasn't at first sure where you were coming from, but then I realised. That's when you suddenly got more right than you already were.

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And you never whine at all, everything is always ok with you. Isnt it?

That suggests something to me.

That I'm normal? 364 days of the year you're all saying how the Oscars don't mean anything and that you don't care. Then when that 365th day rolls around, all of a sudden it's a big deal.

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I find 3 or 4 that are agreeable there...

The only 2 that came close were the years that are considerable in that regard are 2004, 2007 and 2009 but even those years failed to get as close at they did this year.

2004 Nominees:

Finding Neverland - Jan A. P. Kaczmarek

The Village - James Newton Howard

The Passion of the Christ - John Debney

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban - John Williams

Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events - Thomas Newman

Quite a strong list actually, and they picked the weakest score of them (even though Finding Neverland was a good score) as their winner...unbelievable. HP 3 should have won that year.

2007 Nominees:

Atonement – Dario Marianelli

The Kite Runner – Alberto Iglesias

Michael Clayton – James Newton Howard

Ratatouille – Michael Giacchino

3:10 to Yuma – Marco Beltrami

A much weaker list, but still has some good scores. None of these scores were actually best of that year. And while Atonement is a strong score, 3:10 is still better in quality. So, considering how none of the best of the year were actually nominated, the Academy got this year wrong too (although they gave a solid score the Oscar).

2009 Nominees

Up – Michael Giacchino

Avatar – James Horner

Fantastic Mr. Fox – Alexandre Desplat

The Hurt Locker – Marco Beltrami and Buck Sanders

Sherlock Holmes – Hans Zimmer

Up won and its another case of a good score that didn't deserve the Oscar. Definitely not best of the year! What I thought was the best score of 2009 was Dario Marianelli's Agora but considering its limited attention, I guess it wouldn't get nominated. The strongest score in that list is Avatar and that still wasn't the best of the year, so again...they got it wrong.

2011 Nominees

The Artist – Ludovic Bource

The Adventures of Tintin – John Williams

Hugo – Howard Shore

Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy – Alberto Iglesias

War Horse – John Williams

Like 2004, a very strong list of scores with two of them being amongst the best of the year and even The Artist was in my top 10. On a technical level, The Artist is a great score to appreciate and it works perfectly in its film. It doesn't come close to the brilliance of Williams' entries this year (although very few score do), but in comparison to all the other 2011 scores, this score is arguably the closest The Academy got to awarding the actual best original score of the year since The Return of the King...

I'm sure I don't need to go into Santoalalalalalala specifics for you guys ;)

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Babel was a great score. Loved the tune that played when the Japanese girl was on the balcony at the end. Loved the guitar sounding stuff played during the bad bus trip stuff. Very original.

..... :sarcasm:

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KK I don't share your taste in music, simply put. Well, I do agree that all the nominees in those years are good scores, but not with your choices of which are best.

As for Babel, it's an effective score/soundtrack for a great movie. Krang, that beautiful piece that you loved and that I love and which is the reason it won was composed by Ryuichi Sakamoto. Not original.

The Academy admitted that it was nominated against its own rules and should not have won. They're all just a bunch of idiots. Can't get mad at them cause they don't know any better.

Newman said it best:

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KK I don't share your taste in music, simply put. Well, I do agree that all the nominees in those years are good scores, but not with your choices of which are best.

I've known for a while that we don't share the same taste in music ;)

But tell me, out of those years, what would you have picked?

The Academy admitted that it was nominated against its own rules and should not have won. They're all just a bunch of idiots. Can't get mad at them cause they don't know any better.

Newman said it best:

Now THAT, we can agree on. :D Although they don't screw up as much with the bigger categories...

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I wonder how heavily he relied on orchestrators?

Probably a lot. So?

There is something wrong with an award and virtually 100% of all credit going to one person, when that person (very likely) wasn't responsible for a good deal of the creative decisions for the music. I'm not saying this is a problem with The Artist--rather, it's a problem with the system. It's also not a reason to deny The Artist the award, but maybe Bource should be sharing it with his orchestrators. There are several reasons why film composers are looked down upon in musical circles, some valid and some invalid. The heavy reliance on orchestrators is a valid reason. It's also a reason why composers like John Williams and Howard Shore are more talented than most, at least when it comes to orchestrational ability/creativity.

Mind you, it doesn't necessarily damage the score itself.

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But tell me, out of those years, what would you have picked (btw, I changed my mind with 2007, Atonment was the strongest score in that list, but not best of the year)?

Out of those years, I have no clue because there are probably some that weren't nominated that I loved but don't remember. However, out of the nominations, I would have preferred...

2004: The Village

2005: Munich

2006: Pan's Labyrinth

2007: 3:10 To Yuma

2008: The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button

2009: Fantastic Mr. Fox

2010: How To Train Your Dragon

2011: War Horse

2007 is a tough one, virtually a tie between 3:10 and Ratatouille for me, but I had to lean for the former because of my love of Westerns. It's the strongest year in terms of nominations in a long time, in my opinion (My favorite year for film). I'm the only one here, that I can recall, that actually loves Michael Clayton. 2009 was also a strong year, where I didn't mind who won as long as it wasn't Horner. I'm not a fan of Avatar. Really happy with Zimmer's nomination there, Sherlock was his first score in years that really made me listen and get excited. I think it marked a good change for Zimmer, although you obviously disagree there ;)

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But tell me, out of those years, what would you have picked (btw, I changed my mind with 2007, Atonment was the strongest score in that list, but not best of the year)?

Out of those years, I have no clue because there are probably some that weren't nominated that I loved but don't remember. However, out of the nominations, I would have preferred...

2004: The Village

2005: Munich

2006: Pan's Labyrinth

2007: 3:10 To Yuma

2008: The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button

2009: Fantastic Mr. Fox

2010: How To Train Your Dragon

2011: War Horse

2007 is a tough one, virtually a tie between 3:10 and Ratatouille for me, but I had to lean for the former because of my love of Westerns. It's the strongest year in terms of nominations in a long time, in my opinion (My favorite year for film). I'm the only one here, that I can recall, that actually loves Michael Clayton. 2009 was also a strong year, where I didn't mind who won as long as it wasn't Horner. I'm not a fan of Avatar. Really happy with Zimmer's nomination there, Sherlock was his first score in years that really made me listen and get excited. I think it marked a good change for Zimmer, although you obviously disagree there ;)

Good list, and I really agree with you on Zimmer's Sherlock Holmes. It was so refreshing that fun, energetic and creative kind of score from him! It was why I was so excited for the sequels score...God was that a disappointment!!!

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And The Artist won best picture too. Well I suppose I should see it now. I cant imagine I'll end up thinking its a better film than Hugo, Dragon Tattoo, or Midnight in Paris

It's not. It's a cute homage to the 1920s silent film era, but it is NOT the best picture of 2011. In fact, those three movies you listed were far superior, especially Hugo and Midnight in Paris.

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The Artist was the most moving film I've seen in theaters since...Return of the King? Maybe it had to do with my life at the moment I saw the film, but for some reason I was able to empathize with the main character more than I am able to in almost any other film.

Either way, it is much more than an homage to the silent era.

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By the way, did anybody else notice that for a bunch of the technical categories, they were playing music from War Horse while listing the nominees? I can't remember which piece they kept using, but I think it was "The Auction".

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As for Babel, it's an effective score/soundtrack for a great movie. Krang, that beautiful piece that you loved and that I love and which is the reason it won was composed by Ryuichi Sakamoto. Not original.

The Academy admitted that it was nominated against its own rules and should not have won. They're all just a bunch of idiots. Can't get mad at them cause they don't know any better.

Newman said it best:

Hehe, I know that piece was by Sakamoto. The worst part was the sample piece they kept playing at the oscars that year was Santaolalla's Iguazu. He won Best Original Score and they played that. It was so embarrassing.

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The Artist was the most moving film I've seen in theaters since...Return of the King? Maybe it had to do with my life at the moment I saw the film, but for some reason I was able to empathize with the main character more than I am able to in almost any other film.

Either way, it is much more than an homage to the silent era.

As lovely and charming as it is, I think The Artist is no more than a celebration of Hollywood heydays. That's why industry people (esp. actors I guess) loved it to the point of giving it their most prestigious honour. It speaks more to the people working within the movie business than anyone else. Of course the arc of the main character is such a classic paradigm of these kind of stories that anyone can relate to it, but I think it speaks more cleary to a Hollywood actor than to the average moviegoer. One can appreciate the very conscious and meta-textual approach of the script, but honestly it's not an earth-shattering, rule-changing movie. It's a nostalgia trip to Hollywood's glory days, the perfect fodder for today's industry so full of itself and more and more detached from the rest of the world.

One last thing: other than Billy Wilder, the director should have thanked Stanley Donen & Gene Kelly as well, since the movie's script is almost a rip-off of Singin' in the Rain.

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well, can't write much at this time due to a problem but my preference for best picture and definitely best director would be "the tree of life".

i think the artist got all this attention because it just revived a genre from decades ago and it was original only in that way.

otherwise i consider it a very mediocre film..

the same applies for Hugo for me. it was a celebration of cinema (to paraphrase maurizio) and that's all.

Didn't like it..

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Williams spells "Tintin" the wrong way: "TIN TIN"! The son of a cunt!

Williams didn't make that graphic, nor did anyone working on the film itself. It was made by somebody working for the Academy specifically for the telecast.

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Well think about it. Did the Artist deserve the Oscar? No, Tintin and War Horse were far greater scores and one of them (personally I think War Horse) should have taken the damn thing home.

But lets look back a little bit:

2004 - Finding Neverland

2005 - Brokeback Mountain

2006 - Babel

2007 - Atonement

2008 - Slumdog Millionaire

2009 - Up

2010 - The Social Network

2011 - The Artist

There are some good scores on that list, but The Artist is about as close as the Academy got to getting it right in 7 years. Its quite sad if you think about it, but its the truth.

Hopefully they'll finally get it right again for the next ceremony (with what I assume will be The Hobbit)!

Surely you forgot that "Lincoln" will be released later this year.

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John being nominated twice was the real honor for him.

When the winner stopped and shook John's hand I felt no animosity for him winning. He recognized the greatness of John Williams and you could tell he was truly honored not to have just won but to be recognized among the other nominees. It was a great momemnt in this mostly awful Oscars. Hugo is a lovely film but I do not get it winning all the technical awards, certainly not best visual effects over Deathly Hallows, hell it wasn't even as good a film. Meryl Streep winning felt more like an oops we should have given it to you several years ago when we gave it to Sandra Bullock because Blind Side was a better film than Julie and Julia.

I was glad Christopher Plummer won, he's been deserving over the years. Never nominated until late late in his career. Jonas Hill being nominated aside him was truly an insult. His role in Money Ball was decent, I'll give him that, but really worthy of Oscar, maybe I'm still pissed that Rickman was passed over. AGAIN. oh well I'm rambling.

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Hopefully they'll finally get it right again for the next ceremony (with what I assume will be The Hobbit)!

Surely you forgot that "Lincoln" will be released later this year.

Nah I think he's already seen sketches of both scores and knows the winner in advance.

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Hopefully they'll finally get it right again for the next ceremony (with what I assume will be The Hobbit)!

Surely you forgot that "Lincoln" will be released later this year.

Nah I think he's already seen sketches of both scores and knows the winner in advance.

Howard Shore is the new Jerry Goldsmith?!

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You thought Alan Rickman deserved a "Best Actor" oscar nomination for his role in Harry Potter 8?

no, I felt he was more deserving of a BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR nomination than Jonas Hill, please keep up. Jeez you're continuely slow these days.

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