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Buckbeak's Flight?

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Unlike tons of people here I actually didn't like Prisoner of Azkaban, I found it to be a weak album compared to the other two HP scores and

slightly uninteresting (as JW music goes). The flight theme as great as it is it just doesn’t compare to other incredible themes Williams has written.

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The darker nature of the film, I think, gives rise to a very interesting score. It is a difficult task to create feelings of happiness and elation, yet still remain dark. It definitely poses a challenge to any composer. Subdued, I think is the best way to describe the whole score. But you have to admit, the time-turner sequence is really quite remarkable.

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Indeed. One of the most versatile score from JW. And one of the best end credits suite.

One of the most boring. It's just a cut and paste job.

Cut and paste. Yes. But that doesn't make it boring, so many great pieces put together.

Well it's not a suite. I meant the music that plays in the end credits.

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It's a great fantastic score, but unlike many here, I don't consider this to be much better than PS (or even CoS).

They are all fantastic, in slightly different ways.

Really?? For me, one of the highlights of the album!

Yes! Clearly.

This, and Quidditch Third Year.

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Indeed. One of the most versatile score from JW. And one of the best end credits suite.

One of the most boring. It's just a cut and paste job.

Cut and paste. Yes. But that doesn't make it boring, so many great pieces put together.

Well it's not a suite. I meant the music that plays in the end credits.

The first 6 minutes of the end credits suite is NOT a cut and paste job! it was originally composed for it, and it consists on original variations of Double Trouble, a new version of the Past theme (which was later cut and pasted in the track "A Window to the Past" for the album) and a lead up to a reprise of Buckbeak's flight, which is pretty much identical (with slight differences, at least at the beginning) to the previous track.

From that point on yes, it's a cut and paste job.

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Isn't the point of end credits to refamiliarize you with what you have just experienced? I mean, when you see a film, you are barraged with all kinds of new things visually and aurally. Aren't the end credits there to say, "Oh by the way, this is all of the stuff that you heard, but may have missed because of so much going on." Sure, it doesn't necessarily make for a great standalone recording, but then, I have always thought that no film score ever stands on its own without the film it is scoring. Nothing wrong with reliving the story every once in a while.

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Only if you believe that film music should have no merit at all outside of it's function in the movie.

but why release it on CD at all?

I'm sure we could go around and around about that one. You are definitely right. For me, the purpose of a film score is to exist for the film. But that doesn't make them any less fit for possible concert music. However, it's hard to just put the film completely out of our minds and experience the score completely void of it. It lives in that context.

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I find it hard sometimes when I like the film, but if I don't or I'm not particularly attached to it or I haven't seen it, the score can get totally new meanings and associations in my head.

Does that somehow alter the idea that it was created specifically for a film though? I agree with you that it can be seen as such. But as we see it in new ways, we are choosing to forget its original context. And this is totally fine of course! But that doesn't suddenly just make it exist out of context...

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The best scores are the one that you can listen too on CD and not really think about the film at all.

If that's the case, then they didn't really do their job did they?

I'd just like to say that it's so nice to have a place where I can have these kinds of discussions with people who understand what it's like to even pay attention to the film score at all. Most people I know..... don't...

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I really disagree. Film music that ONLY functions as film music is far less interesting as film music that can amaze, delight and enthrall away from the film.

For instance.

The Dark Knight is good film music.

Superman the Movie is good music.

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ok, I think maybe we may be misunderstanding each other, because I totally agree with what you just said.

Your example is a great one. But I would be more inclined to say something like:

The Dark Knight is good film music, but perhaps not that great on its own.

Superman the Movie is great film music, but it is also great MUSIC on its own.

However, just because it's great music, it doesn't detract from the fact that it was written for a film, with those contexts. If you've never seen the film, you can still enjoy the score for Superman... Dark Knight, maybe not so much... but neither of them were written void of film.

This really makes me appreciate John Williams's versatility, because his film music is definitely good enough to be taken as concert music.

John Williams just happens to be one of the few film composers out there, who actually approaches his craft with the idea that it could become concert music.

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John Williams just happens to be one of the few film composers out there, who actually approaches his craft with the idea that it could become concert music.

By that comment I assume you mean that concert music, by definition is a better, purer, art form then film music?

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Absolutely not... I mean that concert music exists for its own sake, as opposed to film music, which exists for film.

I actually find film music to be much better, as long as it is also good MUSIC, because it deals with the portrayal of an actual emotion depicted somewhere, rather than just existing for its own sake. This makes it much more enjoyable than concert music. But film music that exists only for providing a pulse to the film and that lacks musicality is not very enjoyable...

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It works very well in the film, you can't deny that LeBlanc.

Removed from the film it's not that good.

I certainly can deny it. I didn't like the score in the film and felt the movie would have been better with a different score.

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I think that the score for The Dark Knight is good film music in the sense that it sort of disappears into the film. Of course I would like something much more iconic that actually says something, but sometimes disappearing into the film is the best thing a score can do.

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I adore Buckbeak's Flight. Williams somehow always finds a way to convey the sense of flying in a new and different style. The whole score is among his top output in the 2000's.

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but sometimes disappearing into the film is the best thing a score can do.

I think there is an art to it, writing music that becomes one with the film but that it can also stand alone on its own right. That's why I have a huge admiration for the greats, and nearly no admiration for the new wave of so called 'composers'.

There is a good reason that the film in The Dark Knight is the way it is. TDN is a very rich film in terms of visuals. I personally feel that a more elaborate music would be like having way too much chocolate. It just wouldn't work. Saying that, as much as I feel it's working within the film, there is no way on this Earth that I would stick the CD on my player. In my view it's unlistenable outside the film.

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I'd be willing to bet a lot of it has to do with Christopher Nolan. He seems to be quite a control freak. It really shows in all of his movies. I think he's looking for a specific sound, and he kind of just gets it every time. Most of the scores to most of his movies sound the same. He is a genius, though. His musical taste..... ummmm...

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