La-La Land Records' HOOK (2CD Expanded) Discussion thread

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So did Jospeh compose music that wasnt included on the LLL release?

[crumbs 14,315]

7 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

So did Jospeh compose music that wasnt included on the LLL release?

 

From memory yes, there was some other source music they didn't include (when David escapes Rouge City in the amphibicopter).

 

Going by what MM said above, they only included The Biker Hounds because it was on the original album (and he didn't want anything from previous releases to not get carried over).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So they released a 3 CD set and its still incomplete?

 

Thats unforgivable!

[crumbs 14,315]

2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

So they released a 3 CD set and its still incomplete?

 

Thats unforgivable!

 

Complete with regards to music John Williams wrote.

 

[Incanus 5,714]

22 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

So did Joseph compose music that wasnt included on the LLL release?

Yes a couple of source cues were left off the album. One for the Gigolo Joe introduction scene and another in Rouge City both stylistically in the same area as The Biker Hounds Extension. I think it was in keeping with JWs wishes.

 

And yes they didn't include the source songs by Ministry either, performed on-screen at the Flesh Fair in the middle of the film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Rubbish! I'm glad I skipped this release!

[crumbs 14,315]

If you're upset about that, do yourself a favour and don't read up on what he requested for Hook!

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm not happy with that release either!

[crumbs 14,315]

Then whatever you do, don't look at the Concord Indiana Jones reissues!

[Incanus 5,714]

Also avoid the Intrada Jaws release. It is still missing some of the marching band source music. And forget about Jaws 2 as well since none of the source music made it to that set. A travesty!

[crumbs 14,315]

Thankfully we'll always have the Peruvian street band track on the KOTCS OST, for emergencies.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

In fact, it would be better for you to avoid every complete release of a Williams score!

[Incanus 5,714]

6 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

In fact, it would be better for you to avoid every complete release of a Williams score!

Yeah inevitably something is always missing. E.g. the recent JW Jurassic Park Collection didn't have the Mexican source music from either film. Which is a shame as all those songs have such integral part in the narrative and were not in fact composed by John Williams. Yeah that must be a shocker to you folks but that's the way it is. The most crucial songs were not by the Maestro.

[crumbs 14,315]

5 minutes ago, Incanus said:

Yeah inevitably something is always missing. E.g. the recent JW Jurassic Park Collection didn't have the Mexican source music from either film. Which is a shame as all those songs have such integral part in the narrative and were not in fact composed by John Williams. Yeah that must be a shocker to you folks but that's the way it is. The most crucial songs were not by the Maestro.

 

I can't even remember Mexican source music in The Lost World.

[Incanus 5,714]

On 11/12/2016 at 5:03 AM, crumbs said:

 

I can't even remember Mexican source music in The Lost World.

What?!!! You don't remember the "Tres Dias" by Tomas Mendez performed by the  Mariachi Los Camperos De Nati Cano?!!!! And you call yourself a JW fan!!!

[crumbs 14,315]

On 11/12/2016 at 5:07 AM, Incanus said:

What you don't remember the  Tres Dias" by Tomas Mendez performed by the  Mariachi Los Camperos De Nati Cano.

 

Uh.... oh... that's, uh, the unreleased part from Rescuing Sarah, right?

[Incanus 5,714]

14 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

Uh.... oh... that's, uh, the unreleased part from Rescuing Sarah, right?

NO! It is the music Carter (the disposable henchman) is listening on his headphones when Dieter the evil mercenary (Peter Stormare) goes to take a leak and loses his way in the forest and ends up being eaten by the compys! Of course!

 

But to return to the topic at hand, namely Hook, I believe Matessino would have done a better job with this music, given of course that they had found all the necessary elements, including the pick-up sessions inserts and film versions of everything. It is a shame that scores even from the 1990's, which is still very recent, can have their tapes handled so badly that they can't find the complete materials for them for love or money. I can imagine scores from 1960's might be challenging to find in good condition in the jumbled archives (if they were archived at all but just tossed on the shelves among other things) but it happening with something as "recent" as Hook it feels like an evil joke played by the soundtrack gods who are cruelly laughing in the face of John Williams fans.

[crumbs 14,315]

11 minutes ago, Incanus said:

NO! It is the music Carter (the disposable henchman) is listening on his headphones when Dieter the evil mercenary (Peter Stormare) goes to take a leak and loses his way in the forest and ends up being eaten by the compys! Of course!

 

Of course!

 

 

[Bespin 8,481]

When I listen to an expanded set and the source music begins to play, this sends me a message that the album is finished, then I hurry to stop the playing.

 

On my computer I usually store the "bonus tracks" part of each CD in a sub-directory.

 

I love when the end is the end.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

4 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

I can't even remember Mexican source music in The Lost World.

 

The dude who had headphones on while Peter Stormare was getting eaten by the compys.

 

EDIT: Nevermind! Just saw Inky already mentioned it.

[scallenger 483]

I think the biggest crime for me of the LLL Hook set was that they released an edited form of the first part of Ultimate War, when it was more complete/proper on the OST. It felt like whoever edited the set clearly wasn't paying nearly enough attention to what they were doing, and certainly didn't know the music. I immediately noticed, and was totally shocked they thought it was okay to release it in such a way. The film stems for stuff they couldn't find I understand... but they had the OST for that section. Definitely a goof worse than any missing dino teeth, indeed.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

NO, the worse thing was to release the ultimate war with film stems except in the part with the two (never released officially or unnofficially) inserts where they resort to the album version...

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's because they let Williams supervise and approve.

[crumbs 14,315]

Retaining the film edits for the OST portions of The Ultimate War was a bizzare choice. From memory someone pulled DD up on that decision and he said they were asked not to change it (like the sped up version of the prologue, which they'd also fixed).

 

So yes, probably JW meddling.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Williams didn't understand at the time or the producers weren't able to set it straight. We already got an OST decades ago. This is the complete score, old man. Surrender the music and go back to watching baseball.

[crumbs 14,315]

He's been far less meddling on every MM release since, which speaks volumes.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Cause Mikey don't play that shit!

[Bespin 8,481]

If I understand well, there is no need to move heaven and earth to find this currently "Sold Out" 2012 release.

We just have to wait a new one.

 

Correct?

[crumbs 14,315]

11 minutes ago, Bespin said:

If I understand well, htere is no need to move heaven and earth to find this currently "Sold Out" 2012 release.

We just have to wait a new one.

 

Correct?

 

I'm sure there'll be a reissue eventually, but a new release is unlikely until the Ultimate War tapes turn up.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

2 hours ago, crumbs said:

He's been far less meddling on every MM release since, which speaks volumes.

 

I know. It doesn't make any sense. That's why I trust it.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Maybe they are waiting until these tapes appear. That would explain why they haven't immediately released a re-issue after the old one was sold out. I can't imagine they dare to re-release that inferior version from 2012. If - then it will be a definite presentation, I guess!

[Score_Fan 36]

Listening to Jurassic Park/The Lost World's new release, I am so hoping for a re-release of Hook now more than ever 

[bollemanneke 3,348]

So do you think that a proper release might still be possible, for example when Williams has passed away? Or would someone else then come forward and start insisting things be kept the way he wanted them to be kept?

 

As for film vs album, I have a clear point of view on that. The ONLY reason I listen to scores is because I liked them in the films. That means I expect a film representation. I haven't said I want microedits included or no unused music, but the music as heard in the film is my first priority. Album versions and concert pieces are fine additions, but I have no patience with these 'choices' Williams makes. You don't buy Vivaldi's The Four Seasons with the third movement of Summer removed just "'cause we wanted it removed"', do you? IN other words, why can't a film score just be a film score?

[Incanus 5,714]

11 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

So do you think that a proper release might still be possible, for example when Williams has passed away? Or would someone else then come forward and start insisting things be kept the way he wanted them to be kept?

 

I don't think it is or was Williams who is holding the complete version of this back. Rather the very difficult situation with the complete sources for the music or rather the lack thereof is the main reason LLL could not produce a flawless version of the score. And with right people making the right argument to Williams and his representatives about the chronology etc. of a particular score has a good chance of being listened to. Just look at Mike Matessino's stellar work on JW scores in recent years and the most recent (and awesome) JP Collection. By building such a relationship with the composer's camp Matessino has shown he can handle the Maestro's work with honour and care and do justice to it while also seeing the film music fans' side of things and actually trying to make a valid argument for this point of view.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

It's interesting that you mention the sources. I definitely remember reading that 'take me out to the ball game' was removed following JW's input, and apparently the Cornucopia insert wasn't included because it couldn't be located in good quality. So how would they describe that insert on the Concorde bootleg, bad quality...?

 

PS: My e-mail notifications aren't coming through, has anyone else noticed?

[Incanus 5,714]

I am sure LLL tried to locate every available resource for the tapes and Williams certainly made his suggestions regarding the album assembly but my point was that with right people selling this stuff to Williams it might have been a different end result with the album content although it would have still left the challenge of the missing materials for the recording sessions. Hopefully they will find them eventually so a proper completely complete version of the score can be created.

 

 

[King Mark 3,631]

8 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

It's interesting that you mention the sources. I definitely remember reading that 'take me out to the ball game' was removed following JW's input, and apparently the Cornucopia insert wasn't included because it couldn't be located in good quality. So how would they describe that insert on the Concorde bootleg, bad quality...?

 

 it's weird, because the conocupia insert is the ONLY bit on the Concorde boot that's good quality and doesn't suffer the "tape"  distortion  of the rest of the bootleg, so it was salvageable for a custom edit

 

I have a feeling that on  the concorde boot this insert is from a different  source than the rest of the unreleased music

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's very likely the studio would not have allowed LLL to use any material that had a bootleg origin, and wasn't licensed out by them.

[Jay 37,363]

Just now, Stefancos said:

It's very likely the studio would not have allowed LLL to use any material that had a bootleg origin, and wasn't licensed out by them.

 

BIngo

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The bottom line is that Williams should have never been allowed to interfere. I remember La-La Land seemed so proud of his involvement. "Supervised and approved by John Williams!" In those days, that was like a death sentence for a complete score release.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

We mustn't over exaggerate though. A lot of people these days are bashing these old expanded releases because they are incomplete and not wholly chronological. But at the time these were wonderful releases. So great to have this new music.

[Score_Fan 36]

45 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

We mustn't over exaggerate though. A lot of people these days are bashing these old expanded releases because they are incomplete and not wholly chronological. But at the time these were wonderful releases. So great to have this new music.

 

 

I'll agree in that it IS nice to have more music, but sadly this came at the wrong time. Oh well, maybe for the 30th anniversary.

12 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

So do you think that a proper release might still be possible, for example when Williams has passed away? Or would someone else then come forward and start insisting things be kept the way he wanted them to be kept?

 

 

 

Anything is possible, and LLLR have released and re-released Williams scores over the past few years with more music, so it's not impossible, just unlikely.

 

 

[publicist 4,643]

But to have a perfect sounding bootleg 'Ultimate War' and getting film stems on the official release is not just a little weird. Surely at some point they could just have slipped this on Williams' desk. 'Look, John found a perfect copy, we don't have to use stems!' Problem solved. It's madness that Sony can just lose such a long stretch of a 1991 Spielberg recording session.

[crumbs 14,315]

Since when was the bootleg copy of Ultimate War "perfect sounding"? I must have heard a different bootleg...

 

The film stems weren't great (and they're basically the reason I never revisit those cues) but they were still better quality than the bootleg. It is very weird that a whole section of music just disappeared like that though, unless they were stolen.

[publicist 4,643]

You just got the wrong bootleg.

[crumbs 14,315]

Well that is interesting then.

 

Every Hook bootleg I've heard sounded as bad as the Last Crusade bootleg.

[publicist 4,643]

Well, no...

 

Listen to this cue i uploaded on Soundcloud once:

 

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Score_Fan 36]

I wonder if that item they found so long ago that would blow people's minds, but couldn't use due to legalities had anything to do with Hook?

[Jay 37,363]

4 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Maybe it's because, no matter how good the sound quality, it's still in lossy format, and the guys at La-La-Land didn't want to use something lossy? Fuck knows...

 

These decisions are not made by LLL - they're made by Sony.  That's important.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Score_Fan said:

I wonder if that item they found so long ago that would blow people's minds, but couldn't use due to legalities had anything to do with Hook?

 

Are you talking about MV's FSM post about the Shirley Walker Batman piano demo?