La-La Land Records' HOOK (2CD Expanded) Discussion thread

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 7,998]

This set is the worst thing ever MV should be ashamed of himself, letting John Williams near it was a recipe for disaster, everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves and quit the soundtrack-making world forever. Still, it's better than it would have been if Varese had done it.

That bad?

Karol

[Brónach 1,302]

I also wonder why didn't they correct the speed and pitch of the trailer music.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

This set is the worst thing ever MV should be ashamed of himself, letting John Williams near it was a recipe for disaster, everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves and quit the soundtrack-making world forever. Still, it's better than it would have been if Varese had done it.

That bad?

Karol

Yep. When you get your copy you should just throw it straight in the bin, I mean the CD case will be cracked anyway.

The worst thing: no acknowledgement for Angela Morley. Makes my blood boil.

[crocodile 7,998]

This set is the worst thing ever MV should be ashamed of himself, letting John Williams near it was a recipe for disaster, everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves and quit the soundtrack-making world forever. Still, it's better than it would have been if Varese had done it.

That bad?

Karol

Yep. When you get your copy you should just throw it straight in the bin, I mean the CD case will be cracked anyway.

The worst thing: no acknowledgement for Angela Morley. Makes my blood boil.

I shan't even open it then. If I'm lucky the mailman will chuck it for me.

Karol

[Incanus 5,714]

Working on a Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone analysis at the moment. It is going to be massive and is eating up all review/analysis time at the moment.

Yeah, yeah... Blabediblabedibla. It's been more than 6 months since you told us you were starting working on this review. Release it now, or don't even bother releasing it at all!

No it is not finished yet! I need more time! More! I have just finished the Blue Forest and am approaching the Three Note Loop! I need more time!

[KK 3,307]

Working on a Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone analysis at the moment. It is going to be massive and is eating up all review/analysis time at the moment.

Yeah, yeah... Blabediblabedibla. It's been more than 6 months since you told us you were starting working on this review. Release it now, or don't even bother releasing it at all!

Rich, coming from the guy whose been boasting about his rumoured Tintin review for months himself...I'm sure from that, we've learned that patience has its rewards (or maybe not...still not sure why you hate Tintin so much Bloodboal, even after your massive thesis...)

[Faleel 5,345]

Working on a Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone analysis at the moment. It is going to be massive and is eating up all review/analysis time at the moment.

Yeah, yeah... Blabediblabedibla. It's been more than 6 months since you told us you were starting working on this review. Release it now, or don't even bother releasing it at all!

Rich, coming from the guy whose been boasting about his rumoured Tintin review for months himself...

um... its out.

[crocodile 7,998]

Yeah, it came and went. John Carter didn't managed to top it.

Karol

[KK 3,307]

I know it is, but it took quite a while

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Trent B 337]

"Humor, it is a difficult concept. It is not logical".

[KK 3,307]

"Humor, it is a difficult concept. It is not logical".

Seems to be the the sacred words of House JWFan

And I hope people do understand that I was just kidding and that my comments were just a jab of humour at our good ol' BloodBoal

[Admiral Holdo 16]

"Humor, it is a difficult concept. It is not logical".

As expertly demonstrated in the "What languages do you speak?" thread.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

And I hope people do understand that I was just kidding and that my comments were just a jab of humour at our good ol' BloodBoal

Yeah, right! You're senseless prick, I hope you know that! You don't care about other people feelings! You just mock them, and you don't care if anyone gets hurts in the process. I find that disgusting!

Come now BloodBoal! No need to throw a fit over a little fun Is it because the tie I set with the Waltz vs. Ledger thread? You could be more than Messenger!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Is it me or is the single best track on the LLL CD the film version of Banning Back Home?

(Ultimate War isn't a contendor considering its disastrous presentation)

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

It is very good but the best? I don't think so.

[King Mark 3,630]

The orchestration in alternate Prologue at 0.30 is weird by Williams standards

not just because were used to the other version

[Joe Brausam 214]

The orchestration in alternate Prologue at 0.30 is weird by Williams standards

Angela Morley did it

[King Mark 3,630]

ah, that was my first theory

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

Is it me or is the single best track on the LLL CD the film version of Banning Back Home?

(Ultimate War isn't a contendor considering its disastrous presentation)

shame its a film stem. It does not sound as clear and good as the album version.

[Joe Brausam 214]

The sound of "The Ultimate War" doesn't bother me, even the volume dips aren't terrible, it's just the loops that bug me. But it's easy to look past, at least for me.

[Goldfingers 126]

On the 11 june 1991, John Williams was on Hook's sets.

[MissPadmé 17]

"Low Below"!! How cool is that?

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Heh, and he jotted down Low Below too. That's cute.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

Goldfingers... are you from Lalaland?

Because your avatar is exactly the same 'poster-edit' as the oficial release but made to the alternate struzan poster, as if it was an alternate possible cover.

Anyone could replicate it... but the editing looks as good as the official product.

BTW i also used that poster for mi itunes but the full sheet.

[MissPadmé 17]

I guess, that's what he gave to the orchestrator, who then constructed "Presenting the Hook" out of it

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

of course!

[Josh500 1,615]

So I got my EXPANDED HOOK yesterday, and I immediately put on the album and listened to the new material several times. And I gotta say, I am slightly underwhelmed. I think I was expecting more . . . maybe too much. But then I am not sure why. Most of the highlights are already on the OS album, I've found. Sure, having these little atmospheric cues like "The Nursery," "The Watch," "The Bedroom" etc. is nice, but are these really must-haves? And the complete "Ultimate War"--while also nice to have, of course--is not something I will find myself listening to very often, I think. It's just too chaotic, too bombastic, too directionless, and too uneven an action cue, at least for my taste. (Maybe I will change my mind on this later, once I've listened to it several dozen times.) The tracks I am enjoying the most right now are "Pirates," "Hook Challenges Peter," and "End Credits." (And maybe the film version of "Banning.")

Come to think of it, I was more impressed with the Indy Concord set. Consider: back then we got the complete "Indy's Very First Adventure," "The Boat Scene," "On the Tank," "Alarm!," "Indy Negotiates," "Approaching the Stones," and "Map/Out of Fuel"! And in the case of LC at least, in perfect sound quality!

That said, I am still very happy with this release of "Hook," of course. Wouldn't have missed it for the world!

[Goldfingers 126]

Goldfingers... are you from Lalaland?

No, i replicated the cover with the Struzan's concept art.

"Low Below"!! How cool is that?

This was certainly the day they filmed "Low Below" because Vincent Paterson (the choreographer) signed the same day...

[Trent B 337]

The complete "Ultimate War"--while also nice to have, of course--is not something I will find myself listening to very often, I think. It's just too chaotic, too bombastic, too directionless, and too uneven an action cue, at least for my taste.

So do you think the same way with "The Battle Of Yavin" and "The Battle Of Hoth"?

[Brónach 1,302]

Sure, having these little atmospheric cues like "The Nursery," "The Watch," "The Bedroom" etc. are nice, but are these really must-haves?

These cues are what make the score at first. It plays like a 140ish long track, growing from these to the climax.

Actually when I listened to the score, it was these kind of little subdued cues that glued the thing a bit for me.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

So I got my EXPANDED HOOK yesterday, and I immediately put on the album and listened to the new material several times. And I gotta say, I am slightly underwhelmed. I think I was expecting more . . . maybe too much. But then I am not sure why. Most of the highlights are already on the OS album, I've found. Sure, having these little atmospheric cues like "The Nursery," "The Watch," "The Bedroom" etc. are nice, but are these really must-haves? And the complete "Ultimate War"--while also nice to have, of course--is not something I will find myself listening to very often, I think. It's just too chaotic, too bombastic, too directionless, and too uneven an action cue, at least for my taste. (Maybe I will change my mind on this later, once I've listened to it several dozen times.) The tracks I am enjoying the most right now are "Pirates," "Hook Challenges Peter," and "End Credits." (And maybe the film version of "Banning.")

Come to think of it, I was more impressed with the Indy Concord set. Consider: back then we got the complete "Indy's Very First Adventure," "The Boat Scene," "On the Tank," "Alarm!," "Indy Negotiates," "Approaching the Stones," and "Map/Out of Fuel"! And in the case of LC at least, in perfect sound quality!

That said, I am still very happy with this release of "Hook," of course. Wouldn't have missed it for the world!

So... not all it's cracked up to be?

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

Goldfingers... are you from Lalaland?

No, i replicated the cover with the Struzan's concept art.

awesome editing then

[Josh500 1,615]

The complete "Ultimate War"--while also nice to have, of course--is not something I will find myself listening to very often, I think. It's just too chaotic, too bombastic, too directionless, and too uneven an action cue, at least for my taste.

So do you think the same way with "The Battle Of Yavin" and "The Battle Of Hoth"?

To be perfectly honest, I kinda do. I don't listen to these long action tracks from the original Star Wars trilogy very often. It's nice to have them, sure, but that's it.

On the other hand, I very much enjoy everything from Indiana Jones and the Star Wars prequels (which somehow don't seem as chaotic and bombastic but instead more focused)...

So... not all it's cracked up to be?

Sure, having these little atmospheric cues like "The Nursery," "The Watch," "The Bedroom" etc. are nice, but are these really must-haves?

These cues are what make the score at first. It plays like a 140ish long track, growing from these to the climax.

Actually when I listened to the score, it was these kind of little subdued cues that glued the thing a bit for me.

Well, yeah, but IMO what we already had on the OS album (tracks lile Hook-Napped, Granny Wendy, and The Arrival of Tink/Flight to Neverland etc.) included all those subtle cues. The new stuff we got now struck me as only slight variations of these.

On the other hand, I find myself enjoying "Hook's Madness" very much. A distant cousin of "Forward to Time Past," perhaps?

[Incanus 5,714]

The complete "Ultimate War"--while also nice to have, of course--is not something I will find myself listening to very often, I think. It's just too chaotic, too bombastic, too directionless, and too uneven an action cue, at least for my taste.

So do you think the same way with "The Battle Of Yavin" and "The Battle Of Hoth"?

To be perfectly honest, I kinda do. I don't listen to these long action tracks from the original Star Wars trilogy very often. It's nice to have them, sure, but that's it.

On the other hand, I very much enjoy everything from Indiana Jones and the Star Wars prequels (which somehow don't seem as chaotic and bombastic but instead more focused)...

Oh-o. I am just waiting for someone to open a big can of whoop-ass on your for saying that. Now I just sit back, wait and watch.

[Josh500 1,615]

Oh-o. I am just waiting for someone to open a big can of whoop-ass on your for saying that. Now I just sit back, wait and watch.

So? What's your point? That's what I think.

Don't you have an opinion of your own on this?

[Incanus 5,714]

I am just amazed how you can call something like The Battle of Yavin, a masterpiece of lean and almost economically constructed action music, chaotic and directionless when it is one of the most focused pieces of action music I have ever heard.

And I grant you that The Ultimate War is without a doubt one of the most rambuctious and balletic of Williams' leitmotific action set pieces and it is dazzling with decorative detail and intricacy of swashbuckling style but it is never directionless, every gesture having its purpose, every theme dancing through the piece precisely at the right moment. It does not have that quite familiar technique from say Indiana Jones film where an action motif or idea would propel the entire piece throughout and some themes might cameo along the way. The Ultimate War is the ultimate thematic ballet.

[KK 3,307]

What I don't understand Josh is that you dislike the big action cues from Star Wars because they're too chaotic for you while you seem to be ok with the action in the SW prequels when they're clearly far more denser, complicated and chaotic. The Battle of Yavin and The Battle of Hoth are far more focused action pieces than the stuff in the prequels (regardless of how awesome they are).

And as Incanus pointed out, the amazing detail in The Ultimate War and the great ballet approach that Williams took with it makes it one of my favourite action cues ever.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

The Ultimate War does switch from idea to idea a bit, but it's cohesive in what it's trying to achieve. It's become one of my favourite Williams action sequences too.

I'd say that Clash of the Cranes is the worst recent offender for me, in terms of jumping from idea to idea with nothing holding it together. I've noticed that in Williams' weaker action pieces, he tends to jump between marching strings or brass hits, with plenty of booommmm-tsh and really not a whole lot else.

[Faleel 5,345]

So josh, you think they are to Jerky?

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I just love "Exit Music" from the bonus tracks. Listened to it first time now with this release, I think it's gorgeous.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

woa, that's been arround for years.

But it must have been awesome to hear the first time in pristine condition

[Brónach 1,302]

I also like that exit music, I was geniunely surprised by bits like that through the score.

[Incanus 5,714]

I just love "Exit Music" from the bonus tracks. Listened to it first time now with this release, I think it's gorgeous.

It is a gorgeous piece indeed. Hearing it for the first time on this set must have been such a delightful surprise. But I can't deny that hearing it in pristine quality after listening to the bootleg for years was equally pleasing. I am truly glad they had the chance to include it on the set.

And has it been mentioned that the list of performers for this score is available on the LLL site?

http://www.lalalandr...s.com/Hook.html

EDIT: Oh, Angela Morley worked on Hook!

[TownerFan 4,983]

The Ultimate War is the ultimate thematic ballet.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

EDIT: Oh, Angela Morley worked on Hook!

now i know why some cues and source music were left out of the release ....

[Josh500 1,615]

I am just amazed how you can call something like The Battle of Yavin, a masterpiece of lean and almost economically constructed action music, chaotic and directionless when it is one of the most focused pieces of action music I have ever heard.

And I grant you that The Ultimate War is without a doubt one of the most rambuctious and balletic of Williams' leitmotific action set pieces and it is dazzling with decorative detail and intricacy of swashbuckling style but it is never directionless, every gesture having its purpose, every theme dancing through the piece precisely at the right moment. It does not have that quite familiar technique from say Indiana Jones film where an action motif or idea would propel the entire piece throughout and some themes might cameo along the way. The Ultimate War is the ultimate thematic ballet.

Okay, maybe directionless is the wrong word.

I meant that in some of these long action tracks, the whole cue seems to consist (not entirely but primarily) of going from one theme to the next, depending on which character happens to be onscreen. There isn't much that accompanies and supports the action onscreen, but rather it's mostly about telling us which character is onscreen. And there's not much to connect these themes, either.

His later action cues seem to focus more on the action, and its deep meanings within the context of any given scene or even the whole movie, rather than on characters. Sure, character themes appear here and there too, but JW seems to be much better at musically illustrating the action, feelings, nuances onscreen at the same time. In some of the original Star Wars action cues, I don't feel that, or at least not as much. Strangely enough, Indiana Jones never had that "problem" for me, even in "Desert Chase" or some of the more elaborate action tracks of ToD.

But let me clarify, in no way am I putting down the Star Wars or Hook action tracks, of course. I personally prefer the other style, that's all.

What I don't understand Josh is that you dislike the big action cues from Star Wars because they're too chaotic for you while you seem to be ok with the action in the SW prequels when they're clearly far more denser, complicated and chaotic. The Battle of Yavin and The Battle of Hoth are far more focused action pieces than the stuff in the prequels (regardless of how awesome they are).

And as Incanus pointed out, the amazing detail in The Ultimate War and the great ballet approach that Williams took with it makes it one of my favourite action cues ever.

Yeah, I'll have to listen to UW a couple more times... and maybe watch the movie a couple more times, as well.

But my first impression upon listening to it was, oh dear God. One theme after another, going on and on, in a chaotic, bombastic, and nonsensical way (nonsencial if you don't know the movie by heart, that is). It didn't seem to make much sense, musically.

[Delorean90 42]

So, leitmotiv in general is a problem for you? I've never really had any issue with the musicality of Williams's use of themes in action cues--at least, not in some of the cues that are being brought up.