La-La Land Records' HOOK (2CD Expanded) Discussion thread

[Josh500 1,615]

So, leitmotiv in general is a problem for you? I've never really had any issue with the musicality of Williams's use of themes in action cues--at least, not in some of the cues that are being brought up.

Well, it's not really a problem, but I just prefer the later action cues, insomuch as they seem more balanced as regards leitmotifs and the bona fide action scoring.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

i think you got it all wrong here, josh.

The cool things about Williams action pieces is how thematically intertwined they are.

His modern scores differ in this matter in some cues, and while cool, they loose 'something'. he still does it 'old fashioned way' sometimes.

Jungle chase and pursuit o the falcon though are two examples to leitmotivistic modern action cues, and for that they shine amongst the other recent works.

[Josh500 1,615]

i think you got it all wrong here, josh.

The cool things about Williams action pieces is how thematically intertwined they are.

His modern scores differ in this matter in some cues, and while cool, they loose 'something'. he still does it 'old fashioned way' sometimes.

Jungle chase and pursuit o the falcon though are two examples to leitmotivistic modern action cues, and for that they shine amongst the other recent works.

No.

And there is no wrong or right here, dude.

Reread what I wrote carefully.

[JamieC 13]

Good form, La La Land. My Hook cd arrived today.

Talk about a time machine back to twenty years ago and the very different world of movie hype ahead of a big movie's release. Those were the days...

[Faleel 5,347]

I noticed a (very minor) mistake in the liner notes, in Schweigers credits sunday times has one letter unbolded, like this:

sunday times

[Josh500 1,615]

Good form, La La Land. My Hook cd arrived today.

Talk about a time machine back to twenty years ago and the very different world of movie hype ahead of a big movie's release. Those were the days...

Congrats and enjoy!

And btw, where are you located? Europe?

I noticed a (very minor) mistake in the liner notes, in Schweigers credits sunday times has one letter unbolded, like this:

sunday times

If that was the only flaw, I'd be over the moon!

[gkgyver 1,645]

I got my copy yesterday.

Listened to the first half of the first disc.

Not yet sure what to think of the score. Fantastic, no doubt, but the constant raving about the awesomeness of this score might have raised my anticipation a bit too high.

Much like it was with ET for me.

[Faleel 5,347]

Gkgyver, the first half of the first disc, while good, is not the best part of the score, so, I'll let you get off easy.

for now...

[gkgyver 1,645]

Hah, I get your intention ....

It's probably like saying the first disc of the Fellowship Of The Ring CR has little thematic variation.

[Trent B 337]

I don't feel like reading back a few pages but did you guys catch this "review"?

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=88456&forumID=1&archive=0

Personally this one is a major insult to La-La Land and those who worked on this set. Now grant saying the remaining "Ultimate War" pieces don't sound great but the entire set? Come on now...some people are just idiots.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

it seems she toned down a little since her initial madness faded....

we all know the faults of this set so no need to add more wood

It raises a good point. Why everyone complains when a big label makes a mistake wherever small it is, and people jump on to anyone who dares to critisize any of the niche labels, even for big mistakes.

[Trent B 337]

Most all ready knew this set wasn't perfect and what all they had to work with was understandable, especially for the "Ultimate War" parts.

However for someone like her to completely say the entire album SUCKS in terms of sound and such is just a huge slap in the face to MV and the rest from La-La Land who worked on it.

Yes it's not what we all wanted or hoped for but it's better than what we had before. Yes I too criticized the sounding of the "Ultimate War" edit and sound quality for the second half. However, if I never had any boots (Pre-Concorde and Concorde) for the score I would have been totally happy with the set. Even then for the most part I'm practically fine with it. Yes some choices editing wise could have been different but it wasn't our call.

[Brónach 1,302]

This is my OST of Hook, so I don't mind complaining. However, I'm glad that my particular OST doesn't come out as some sort of mindless mutilation.

Edit:Oh, can you imagine that everything came out first magically with this level of decency? That is how Thor must feel! Like in a sort of dreamworld.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Most all ready knew this set wasn't perfect and what all they had to work with was understandable, especially for the "Ultimate War" parts.

I doubt everyone knew of the shortcomings of the set [i had to buy (well, download since i couldnt wait ) it to know], seeing how they advertised it. And seeing the lack of info in the liner notes i doubt anyone not on these or other niche forums will know for sure.

However for someone like her to completely say the entire album SUCKS in terms of sound and such is just a huge slap in the face to MV and the rest from La-La Land who worked on it.

Yes. I think he/she apologized a little later, though.

Yes it's not what we all wanted or hoped for but it's better than what we had before.

Of course

However, if I never had any boots (Pre-Concorde and Concorde) for the score I would have been totally happy with the set.

Completely agree.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Here's my review of LLL's Hook set:

http://www.colonnesonore.net/recensioni/cinema/2086-hook.html

It's written in Italian, hence you have to use those pesky automated translators to grasp my own blabber.

[Brónach 1,302]

I understand it. Yes Exit Music and the like are lovely

[Incanus 5,714]

Here's my review of LLL's Hook set:

http://www.colonneso.../2086-hook.html

It's written in Italian, hence you have to use those pesky automated translators to grasp my own blabber.

Again a very well written, thorough and knowledgeable article/review Maurizio. A real pleasure to read and I have to agree with you on most points.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Thanks! You're always very kind

[publicist 4,643]

Most all ready knew this set wasn't perfect and what all they had to work with was understandable, especially for the "Ultimate War" parts.

That's not true. Of course they could have done a better job on correcting the dips and especially in correcting the difference in loudness - everyone can do that in Audition or Audacity, so with a set this long in the works it's at the very least baffling that their sound engineer did nothing.

[Trent B 337]

I guess I hadn't considered that before. As we know generally LLL's sound engineer is Mike Matessino. However, this set was produced in New York so Mike was unable to work on it. I'm sure had he been the one to remaster it he would have made sure there were no volume changes or looped material.

[DreamTheater 131]

I've just now registered here (bit of a lurker until now) to let everyone know I've done my best to correct the volume issues on 'The Ultimate War'. Something LLL should have done to begin with.

Now I don't consider myself a sound editor, but on a personal basis I've been doing this for a while now, and though it was not easy to get right, it was a real pleasure, with music of this magnitude. And it turned out pretty well, if I do say so myself.

If anyone would be interested in hearing it, feel free to PM me.

On top of that I've done a complete and chronological overhaul (as much as possible) of the entire score.

[Hook1991 10]

I have listened to the entire score! It is great! I may be the ONLY one that says this but I LOVE the Ultimate War Tracks all three are great! Sword Fight is the best!

[Incanus 5,714]

I think a lot of us JW fans love the whole Ultimate War sequence which is truly one of Williams' ultimate thematic ballets bustling with irresistable energy and joyous aplomb not to mention good old fashioned swashbuckling fun.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

I am shocked BloodBoal just shocked!

And I thought we were like

Apparently I was wrong. Dead wrong. And I even gave the Golden Biscotti! Philistine!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

Such an alliance broken, such dynamic duo! Woe is me and you and all!

And it is said that "He who once has been Biscottied cannot be un-Biscottied." so you have to keep the Golden Biscotti of Comedy BloodBoal. Until next year...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

Also there is the cryptic prophecy of Golden Biscotti:

Seek for Biscotti that was broken

At JWFan it now dwells,

There shall be counsels taken,

stronger a winner it spells.

There shall be shown a token

that Biscotti is near at hand,

and Tintin's Bane shall be woken,

and forth Boal of Blood shall stand.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

But BloodBoal, aren't you also called Tintin's Bane? I think you should be after writing that scatching vitriol against it.

OK perhaps this was enough derailing for this thread. Back to the topic.

The only major issues of this excellent 2 CD set has been discussed quite a number of times in this and other threads. The volume dips in the Ultimate War tracks and the fact that some music is still left unreleased due to the fact they could not find the elements and materials for them. Also Williams' input might have had something to do with the matter as well when film version of cues and sequencing were concerned. But it is a classy product from LLL where they toiled 3 years to get this done which deserves thanks and kudos from all Williams and Hook fans. Near perfection.

[Joe Brausam 214]

The only thing that bothered me was some of the sequencing, due to retaining album edits (like "The Face of Pan"). But those things bother me less now than they did when the set came out.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Wojo 2,453]

The only thing that bothered me was some of the sequencing, due to retaining album edits (like "The Face of Pan").

So the single track that combines The Face of Pan with You Are the Pan, is that from the original album?

I don't like that track because I'm so used to listening to the bootleg material -- which made me disregard the OST, which I never actually bought -- that this sounds wrong.

[Jay 37,355]

Yes, every track that combines cues from 2 different parts of the movie together is like that because that's how the OST was.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

My criticism of LLL Hook. Sorry in advance to anyone I offend. I bought it and I would probably buy it again if it had the exact same content and John Takis liner notes.

- blah liner notes

- album edits

- Williams supervision

- missing film version inserts

- Ultimate War presentation

- they didn't even properly separate the war cues

- end credits sound like film stem as well

- Ultimate War has edits

- poor editing in Mermaids to Lost Boys

- Williams input

- Mike Matessino wasn't involved

[Richard Penna 3,687]

From my perspective (barely know the film, consider the OST one of Williams' best), the only problem I have at all is the Ultimate War sequence. I'm very surprised that they made no attempt to level out the volume changes and I think it does harm the listening experience.

Generally, they could've done without JW's involvement - I have yet to see a Williams-supervised set that doesn't omit something important because it doesn't 'add to the musical story'. I really think JW is missing the point of these expansions, but his stature makes the labels less inclined to try to argue to the contrary.

[Jay 37,355]

I really think JW is missing the point of these expansions, but his stature makes the labels less inclined to try to argue to the contrary.

Yep!

[Incanus 5,714]

I really think JW is missing the point of these expansions, but his stature makes the labels less inclined to try to argue to the contrary.

Yep!

Well he is looking things from the point of view of an artist, the author of the work, and sees it very differently than his ardent fans. Which of course works against us who would love to have these scores as complete as possible. It is a tricky equation.

I can surely understand an artist's self criticism and doubt, especially when looking back on old work, always finding things that do not satisfy and thinking you could have done better. Even well received and much acclaimed works might on a revisit prove to be embarrassing in some respect to the author. He certainly has a vastly different perspective on the works than his fans or admirers who might build entire career phases and stylistic periods around some pieces (in this case scores) whereas the artist just lives and creates without much conscious acknowledgement for such definitions. Also a humble and down to earth person will down play even his most significant achievement and thus Williams whose humility knows no bounds seems to automatically shy away from expanded/complete scores as he does not see that they are significant and important and of highest quality and well liked to receive such treatment.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

Also a humble and down to earth person will down play even his most significant achievement and thus Williams whose humility knows no bounds seems to automatically shy away from expanded/complete scores as he does not see that they are significant and important and of highest quality and well liked to receive such treatment.

Sometimes, I really wish Williams was an arrogant selfish prick.

Well I think Williams with his success has been more than humbled and is very rarely seen actively allowing those complete releases and has never to my knowledge actively pursued one. I can also understand those who have attained a certain lofty popular status like Howard Shore did with LotR and have seen this as a way of both serving the fans and releasing material they are very proud of. Also he has even started his own label to see some of his own obscure and unreleased projects released. It is all about perspective and individual goals and interests of a composer.

[Trent B 337]

From my perspective (barely know the film, consider the OST one of Williams' best), the only problem I have at all is the Ultimate War sequence. I'm very surprised that they made no attempt no level out the volume changes and I think it does harm the listening experience.

I think for the "Ultimate War" parts is who ever assembled the set together just was being lazy about that and probably decided that it would waste to much time to do that.

I really had wished they transferred all the score elements to California to let Mike Matessino assemble the set. There probably would have NO volume dips, or looped notes IE: "Crossed Swords" and "The End Of Hook". I still firmly believe that had Matessino been the one to assemble it, this set would have fared a lot better. Hell he probably would have corrected the pitch issue for the "Hook Trailer" (aka Prologue).

[Hook1991 10]

Let me start by saying I really like the new expanded score. It's so good!!!!! I have three favorite tracks Ultimate War: To War, Ultimate War: Death of Rufio and Ultimate War: Sword Fight. These tracks to me are so AWESOME!!!!! I have been waiting for this music for 21 years!!!!!

I know it is said that there were certain things John Williams said he didn't want to include. I see that the baseball scene wasn't included and the museum scene with the clocks wasn't either. I wouldn't consider these tracks repetitive. I know this might sound weird but I definately feel like there's a void in the soundtrack with not having these.

What is everyone's opinions.

[Jay 37,355]

The Clock Musuem music is disc 1, track 21, "Hook's Madness"

[Incanus 5,714]

And what baseball scene are you refering to? The Banning Back Home (both the film and album version is on the set), the pirates playing baseball scene (included in the Remembering Childhood), Peter getting hit by the baseball (Follow that Shadow on the set) or the Take Me Out to the Ballgame organ source music which plays during the pirate baseball match (unreleased)?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

No need to be so agressive, Finnish Boy!

Shush! I was just asking a clarfying question. Obviously you imagine too much of stern Gandalf in my writings. Do not be too eager to deal critique and judgement. Even the very wise cannot always interpret the posts and their tone on this MB.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.

[BloodBoal 7,538]