Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 If you take the most heroic renditions of Raiders March ("Flight from Peru," "Desert Chase," "The German Sub") and the most heroic renditions of Tintin's Heroic Theme ("Escape from Karaboudjan" and "Pursuit of the Falcon"), that is. Do you think these 2 themes are interchangeable? Why? Why not?In my opinion, the Raiders March is overly optimistic and cheerful, very heroic but slightly clumsy and funny too; it perfectly expresses the sense of Indy "being in over his head (yet again!)."Tintin's Theme on the other hand strikes me as less optimistic, less cheerful, not clumsy or funny whatsoever; it's still very heroic but somewhat in a bookish, studious, and more detached way (I am not sure whether you'd agree here, but tell me what you think!). In a way, it's more "balanced" than Raiders March, i.e. there isn't as much going on here, emotionally (although the fact that Tintin's theme is considerably shorter may have something to do with it, of course).Well? What's your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 IMO Tintin's theme is one of the most interesting and catchy themes JW wrote in a long time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Tintin actually doesn't have just one but 3 different thematic identities in the film. There is the main heroic theme, the secondary sleuthing/action theme and finally the small quirky motif for solving riddles. Williams treats each of these areas with its own thematic idea and I would love to hear him combine all three into a concert suite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 I've been underestimating this theme for some time... Sure, there's Haddock's Theme, the Dueling theme, Snowy's theme, etc. which are all more complex than Tintin's theme, but Tintin's theme is quite wonderful to listen to!The closest thing to Raiders March and Luke Skywalker's theme JW wrote, maybe. Well, in terms of a heroic theme played principally by a trumpet (or a French horn), that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 When I hear Tintin's theme I think of Allo Allo.When I hear the Raiders March I think of Harrison Ford being punched.Indy wins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 Tintin actually doesn't have just one but 3 different thematic identities in the film. There is the main heroic theme, the secondary sleuthing/action theme and finally the small quirky motif for solving riddles. Williams treats each of these areas with its own thematic idea and I would love to hear him combine all three into a concert suite. Yes. Definitely!And if JW does Tintin 2 as well, maybe we'll get more themes associated with Tintin and his escapades! Tintin's theme, of course Just so we all know what we're talking about... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31sdNPbBL3o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Oh that one. That reminds of Jake Lloyd. Indy still wins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,037 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Tintin's theme is an enormous missed opportunity. Quite possibly Williams' least memorable theme for a titular character. It's grown on me a bit, but mostly only in the statements where the orchestration is interesting enough to overcome the melodic mediocrity. The Raiders March, on the other hand, is brilliant and memorable, and it wins easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 Tintin's theme is an enormous missed opportunity. Quite possibly Williams' least memorable theme for a titular character. It's grown on me a bit, but mostly only in the statements where the orchestration is interesting enough to overcome the melodic mediocrity. The Raiders March, on the other hand, is brilliant and memorable, and it wins easily.Let me guess. Tintin's theme rubs you the wrong way! But I gotta say, I disagree with you. Tintin's theme is perfect for the character. And as to orchestration... an interesting orchestration is needed for Raiders March too, duh. Still, yeah, a concert version on the OS album would have been nice... although, of course, we might still be getting that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicebrallice 134 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I'll have to agree with datameister. sadly, tintin's theme didn't do much for me at all. same thing with the whole score.ok... sir francis and the unicorn is pretty fantastic, I must admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 I'll have to agree with datameister. sadly, tintin's theme didn't do much for me at all. same thing with the whole score.ok... sir francis and the unicorn is pretty fantastic, I must admit.Well to each their own. But for me, it's fast becoming one of my all-time favorite scores, on the same level as HP 1-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I went with the Raiders March. It is more thoroughly developed I feel even though I like the Tintin theme very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShowUStheHOOK 8 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Oh that one. That reminds of Jake Lloyd.Indy still wins! :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,301 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I think Tintin's themes are fantastic but they're really not in the spotlight of this score like Indy's theme was in Raiders. I think in Tintin the main thing would be the Unicorn's theme.(What I like about Tintin's theme in its most complete version is how it goes down and jumps, jumps again further, and then falls and manages to jump and finally "fly". In my humble opinion it's a quite expressive moment) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 I think Tintin's themes are fantastic but they're really not in the spotlight of this score like Indy's theme was in Raiders. I think in Tintin the main thing would be the Unicorn's theme.Hmmm yes. But surely that's because Tintin's Heroic Theme (and his other 2 themes) aren't played over the end credits, and they didn't get a concert arrangement on the OS album.And I am thinking that this might have been done by JW on purpose... because Tintin is not supposed to be the center of attention, like Indy. He is just a blank figure without much character who gets drawn into one adventure after another.I think Tintin's theme gets used quite a LOT throughout the movie, though . . . whenever Tintin does even something slightly heroic, or just when he is the focus of attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 But anyway, I think we all agree, the themes in Tintin are quite solid.Compare, for example, the themes in Tintin with the (new) themes from KotCS! Mutt's Theme, the Crystal theme, Irina's theme, hell even the theme of the Russians...No comparison, if you ask me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,301 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Irina's theme and the theme for the Russians are fantastic in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 Irina's theme and the theme for the Russians are fantastic in my opinion.Well, they are not bad by any means, but I think any theme from Tintin is better (more memorable, effective, well-constructed) than these 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 The themes in KOTCS are wonderful, it's the underscore that's underwhelming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 The themes in KOTCS are wonderful,,,As opposed to the themes in Tintin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Yes. I mean, the Tintin themes are good, but I don't think they're half as good as KOTCS. Then again, I know I'm in a minority with Call of the Crystal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 Yes. I mean, the Tintin themes are good, but I don't think they're half as good as KOTCS. Then again, I know I'm in a minority with Call of the Crystal. Well, if you really think so, I won't argue with you. To be honest, personally I still can't get into the Crystal theme...But for me (and for most of us, I am sure) the score to Tintin is far superior to the score to KotCS... and I am not talking about just the main themes, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,301 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I like them all, except Mutt's music, which never clicked with me. The underscore of KOTCS is a bit boring at times with moments on coolnes here and there (mushroom cloud!!). Tintin is a score with a quite exciting and colourful underscore all throurough, which is I think thereason why some prefer it to KOTCS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Jeez, you sound like I've personally insulted you.Is Tintin as a score better than KOTCS? As a whole it probably is. But theme by theme, I'd personally pick KOTCS any time. Both have the fact that I get bored listening to them relatively easily in common.And WAR HORSE tramples over both with a big neigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 I like them all, except Mutt's music, which never clicked with me. The underscore of KOTCS is a bit boring at times with moments on coolnes here and there (mushroom cloud!!). Tintin is a score with a quite exciting and colourful underscore all throurough, which is I think thereason why some prefer it to KOTCS.Well, even if you put Tintin's theme aside for a moment, consider the Scroll theme, Sir Red Rackham's theme, Snowy's Theme, Haddock's theme, the villain's theme, the Unicorn theme...Man! These are maybe some of the best (and most original) themes JW wrote, IMO!Jeez, you sound like I've personally insulted you.Why in the world would you get that impression? I was just a little surprised, that's all...Is Tintin as a score better than KOTCS? As a whole it probably is. But theme by theme, I'd personally pick KOTCS any time. Both have the fact that I get bored listening to them relatively easily in common.Like I said, I won't argue with you if you really think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 Sir Red Redham's theme Corrected! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I prefer Sir Red Redham's theme to the Unicron theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 I prefer Sir Red Redham's theme to the Unicron theme. Yeah, that's what I thought all along! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I think Tintin's themes are fantastic but they're really not in the spotlight of this score like Indy's theme was in Raiders. I think in Tintin the main thing would be the Unicorn's theme.I dunno, pretty much every main theme from Tintin is based on Tintin's theme, so even if the theme itself doesn't get a lot of playing time in the film, its variations do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 I dunno, pretty much every main theme from Tintin is based on Tintin's theme, Haddock's Theme, the Scroll Theme, the villain's theme, Sir Red Rackham's Theme, the Dueling Theme, Snowy's theme are based on Tintin's Theme?so even if the theme itself doesn't get a lot of playing time in the filmBut it does!Any more, and people would be comparing it to Hedwig's theme in PS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I went with the Raiders March. It is more thoroughly developed I feel even though I like the Tintin theme very much.Development is overrated. When you strip both themes to their essence, it becomes clear that Tintin is the product of a subtler and more mature compositional voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Indeed, in comparison the Raiders March comes of as gaudy, obvious and unsophisticated. Of course JW can hardly be blamed for this, since this was much earlier in his career, when he had not yet established his true style. It wasn't until scores like Nixon, Rosewood and in particular Sleepers that the modern, immaculate style of John Williams would seen the light of day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 TintinWait until it will have many different takes in the fortcoming Tintin sequels, afterraising to it to the full glory via many modulation. JW at his best.Now you are used to all JW's three Indy scores. You will wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I've never heard this Tintin music, so I voted Raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,983 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 It's Tin Tin!Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 The horse is dead. Why do we continue to beat it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,983 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 No it isn't. It came back home with Albert. Don't you remember?Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Dear Wojo.You said you never heard the Tintin theme. And you also said you never seen the film.Is that the truth?If it is, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I dunno, pretty much every main theme from Tintin is based on Tintin's theme, Haddock's Theme, the Scroll Theme, the villain's theme, Sir Red Rackham's Theme, the Dueling Theme, Snowy's theme are based on Tintin's Theme?Just Haddock, Unicorn theme, Adventure Continues, and Snowy's theme. But Sir Francis' theme is based on Haddock's theme, and the Red Rackam's theme is based on Sakharine's theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 Development is overrated. When you strip both themes to their essence, it becomes clear that Tintin is the product of a subtler and more mature compositional voice.You hit the nail on the head! That's exactly what I was thinking too... Tintin's theme is deceptively simple, and yet incredibly well thought through, IMO. The melody is not as obviously and blatantly heroic as Indy's theme, and yet it fits Tintin's heroic character perfectly!Indeed, in comparison the Raiders March comes of as gaudy, obvious and unsophisticated.Are you being sarcastic? Raiders March may be a little gaudy and obvious, but there's nothing unsophisticated about it! Besides, Indy himself is a little gaudy and obvious, so the theme fits perfectly here too.TintinWait until it will have many different takes in the fortcoming Tintin sequels, afterraising to it to the full glory via many modulation. JW at his best.Now you are used to all JW's three Indy scores. You will wait and see.Yes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Wait, you accuse ME of being sarcastic, yet you agree with Hlao Roo??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 You really think Raiders March is unsophisticated? you agree with Hlao Roo???Yeah, this might be the first time that ever happened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 He was being sarcastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 Well, even so, I happen to agree with him there!When you strip both themes to their essence, it becomes clear that Tintin is the product of a subtler and more mature compositional voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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