Hans Zimmer - The Dark Knight Rises

[KK 3,307]

The Elfman music doesn't quite work. But I do like the Trevor Jones clip very much.

[ZackR 95]

For sure. The Jones music definitely fits better.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Need I say again that no one here has seen this film? None of us are qualified to judge Zimmer's score.

Rubbish! This means you can not judge a score if you have never seen the film. Most of us own scores without even having seen the corresponding movie.

Zimmer's score can be judged as a stand alone listen!

Correct, you cannot judge the effectiveness of a film score without seeing the film. You can judge how pleasing it is to your ears all you want though.

If it works well in the movie, how can he do a LOT better?

In all fairness, a LOT of things can work with the Nolan films. Droning with a single note could work. Zimmer's take works. Erik Woods once showed a video where he tracked certain scenes of Batman with Trevor Jones' score for Dark City and heck that was awesome!!!

So guess which is the better score? With today's films (especially with the Batman films), a wallpaper style music seems like a seamlessly perfect match simply because it doesn't hinder the viewing experience. As I said before, a lot of takes can work for these films. But it's a lot harder to make a great score. Zimmer's work is adequate at best if only because it doesn't hinder the viewing experience. Ultimately, its the film that carries Zimmer's score, not the other way around. So people who keep using the all-too-old excuse of "this works great in film" have to keep in mind that "working in context" is not all that determines a great score. There's a lot more to it. Zimmer's work could have fit the film a lot better too while retaining great musical qualities.

I'll post that video I was talking about once I find it again. Trevor Jones seriously would been a perfect match. He would have created a great score that still stayed well within the dark regions that Nolan's films demand while not being over-the-top.

Exactly. Like I said, the primary function is to fit with the film, secondary to do it well. In my opinion, Zimmer's scores do it well and carry the picture and not the other way around.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

Filmtracks tears apart The Dark Knight Rises Score.

Some choice quotes.

"Buy it... if you've bought into the hyped notion that Hans Zimmer's music for the prior two films in this franchise is the work of a genius"

"Zimmer, in the process of intellectualizing everything he does for his major assignments, somehow manages to make contradictory and senseless statements all too often. He has declared in recent years that he would retire after his next assignment (which did not happen), develop franchise themes in radical ways (which has not happened), and explore revolutionary new methods of applying music to movies (which has not happened, either)."

"beneath the glitz and glamour is a composer whose music has become stagnant and underachieving."

"Nearly everything Zimmer has stated about this score is a gross exaggeration of what he actually accomplished, predictably causing the usual eye-rolling from Zimmer skeptics who regularly lament the difference between the composer's spoken intentions and his underwhelming results. Fans of his will not care; in fact, they will declare "intellectual" film music enthusiasts to be party-poopers and continue blasting Zimmer's music to their balls' content."

"not disputed by many enthusiasts is the fact that The Dark Knight Rises really does reprise much of what came before, even emulating Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides in its technique of yanking exact cues from the prior scores for new applications."

"The main theme is still only two notes long, a rising minor third that does absolutely nothing to convey the complexity of Bruce Wayne's existence. There is still no dichotomy between minor and major key usage to denote this man's two personas. Zimmer's promise in 2005 to flesh out this theme when Batman matures is ignored."

"A score that almost never changes key is one that is not capable of being nimble in its response to changing emotions on screen, and if you wonder why so much of his music seems to drone along in boringly derivative fashion, then the key has much to do with this stagnation. Always using the same key must make life easy for the army of ghostwriters, though!"

"you also have to mention the lack of diversity in instrumentation and tone, as well as the continued reliance upon figures (like low string ostinatos) that remind as much now of Steve Jablonsky's Transformers music as their appropriate heritage"

"The totality of the dwelling in the bass region has reached the point of laughability. Any veteran composer can unleash horrifically rumbling, masculine force from the bass while also employing concurrent appeal from the treble, a technique Zimmer still chooses not to attempt. Again, this refusal to explore the full spectrum greatly diminishes the composer's ability to address emotional range."

"There are, of course, no woodwinds in this score. The violins seem mixed far in the background."

"Zimmer's evolution of music for the franchise, both in terms of tone and theme, is completely nonexistent."

"In "On Thin Ice," Zimmer torments listeners with the possibility that this main theme will gain at least a third note, but this idea is subsequently abandoned."

"the composer doesn't feature these vocals in such a way as to really make an impact on the score. They exist, and they serve their purpose, but they are not as obvious as the obnoxious, single-note theme for the Joker in the prior movie and the same results, quite honestly, could have been generated in studio without all the public relations fuss. Like most aspects of this score, the chants represent the great promise but very little delivery from Zimmer."

"Don't be fooled into thinking that these scores are the high art that the composer's interviews suggest, however. The fanboys will feast on its loyalty while the intellectuals will expose its many faults."

"Between the extremely irritating release format of the soundtrack on album, Zimmer's continued promises of greatness that go unrealized in the finished product, and the inexplicable hype that surrounds this franchise's music, you receive music that is functional at best, mediocre most often, and insultingly simplistic at worst. The composer needs to shut his yap, dump the ghostwriters, shift to F major, conjure a fluid theme, and drop a wicked oboe solo on us. Perhaps then he'd deserve an interview."

So that was that.

[indy4 155]

Clemmenson has made it pretty clear that they aren't fans of Hans Zimmer. A review like this was expected. It doesn't really alter my expectations.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

An oboe wouldn't be appropriate for a film like this (unless it comes from JNH), although I love its use in The Amazing Spider-Man, which Clemmy's obviously still high on.

[Wojo 2,453]

An oboe wouldn't be appropriate for a film like this (unless it comes from JNH), although I love its use in The Amazing Spider-Man, which Clemmy's obviously still high on.

An oboe wouldn't be appropriate for a film like this unless it is used to beat a drum with.

[Ren 75]

Lol

How do you get two oboists to play in tune?

[Wojo 2,453]

Shoot them, I know, same with two piccolos.

Thing is, it's very hard to tune an oboe, right? There's only so much fiddling you can do with the reed to adjust it, right?

Our community band often has two oboes, sometimes even three, and the intonation is...well, I'd rather listen to the neighbors downstairs scratch their cats' nails on the chalkboard.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I've seen one review that gives props to Zimmer for his contribution to The Dark Knight Rises, and several that point to him as one of the weak links in the film.

[Wojo 2,453]

If Hans Zimmer's score is the weak link of the film, then it's going to be a good movie.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Spot on Review.

The man has lost himself in more ways than one.

Poor Superman.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I think Elliot Goldenthal (think in Heat mode) would have been the best choice for Nolan's Dark Knight Series.

Elfman's Batman would be out of place. Trevor Jones would be good, but his music is all the same.

[Jay 37,346]

I think Elliot Goldenthal (think in Heat mode) would have been the best choice for Nolan's Dark Knight Series.

Oooh, that's a good idea

[publicist 4,643]

I think Elliot Goldenthal (think in Heat mode) would have been the best choice for Nolan's Dark Knight Series.

He would have been an inspired choice for SUPERMAN, too. Hollywood thinks that Hans Zimmer is a much better choice, though...

[Jay 37,346]

Giacchino would have been a great choice for Superman, if it wasn't coming out so close to Star Trek 12

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No way. They are going in a different direction with this film. They are changing the whole dynamic of Superman. How can a composer who started out doing John Williams-cloned scores for videogames be a great choice?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I think Elliot Goldenthal (think in Heat mode) would have been the best choice for Nolan's Dark Knight Series.

Oooh, that's a good idea

I mean just compare the Joker "theme" to the stuff out of Heat.

[Jay 37,346]

No way. They are going in a different direction with this film. They are changing the whole dynamic of Superman. How can a composer who started out doing John Williams-cloned scores for videogames be a great choice?

Your ignorance about Giacchino overwhelms me. "How can a composer who started out doing scores for minor comedies be a great choice?" Please.

[Brónach 1,302]

Clemmenson's remark about the lack of woodwinds is spot on. I could find a lot of use for woodwinds to evoke soundscapes and emotions on a Batman score. They're my favourite part of the orchestra.

--Chaac, who is totally biased on this regard.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

No way. They are going in a different direction with this film. They are changing the whole dynamic of Superman. How can a composer who started out doing John Williams-cloned scores for videogames be a great choice?

"How can a composer who started out scoring comedies be a great choice?" Please.

I SEE what you did there!

Clemmenson's remark about the lack of woodwinds is spot on. I could find a lot of use for woodwinds to evoke soundscapes and emotions on a Batman score. They're my favourite part of the orchestra.

Chaac, who is totally biased on this regard.

I agree, some of my favorite woodwind moments are not pastoral or cutesy. They are terrifying. Immediately off the top of my head, the "Darth Maul Intro" (that wasn't actually in the movie) on the TPM OST comes to mind.

[Jay 37,346]

Thinking for the rest of your life that Giacchino sucks because his earliest scores were for video games is akin to thinking for the rest of your life that John Williams sucks because started out scoring Bachelor Flat, How To Marry A Millionaire, Not With My Wife You Don't, John Goldfarb Please Come Home, etc type movies

[KK 3,307]

The composer needs to shut his yap, dump the ghostwriters, shift to F major, conjure a fluid theme, and drop a wicked oboe solo on us. Perhaps then he'd deserve an interview.

One of the best lines I've read in a review in a long time. Hilarious!

http://www.filmtrack...ight_rises.html

Now THAT was a great review! And very accurate too. I love how he describes the status of Zimmer's career and his infatuation to live up to his celebrity status. I enjoyed reading it very much.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Why F Major?

[tannhauser 101]

Shifting to Bflat major works just fine for me, thanks.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Thinking for the rest of your life that Giacchino sucks because his earliest scores were for video games is akin to thinking for the rest of your life that John Williams sucks because started out scoring Bachelor Flat, How To Marry A Millionaire, Not With My Wife You Don't, John Goldfarb Please Come Home, etc type movies

You missed his point entirely. They're going an entirely different direction from John Williams; why would they hire a guy who has a lot of Williams in his sound?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thank you for getting my point.

[Jay 37,346]

Thinking for the rest of your life that Giacchino sucks because his earliest scores were for video games is akin to thinking for the rest of your life that John Williams sucks because started out scoring Bachelor Flat, How To Marry A Millionaire, Not With My Wife You Don't, John Goldfarb Please Come Home, etc type movies

You missed his point entirely. They're going an entirely different direction from John Williams; why would they hire a guy who has a lot of Williams in his sound?

I personally don't hear a lot of Williams in Giacchino's sound, I just hear Giacchino.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But he is a similar type of composer.

Big, thematic, orchestral.

[Jay 37,346]

Yea, and I would think any Superman film warrants a big, thematic, orchestral score. But of course I haven't seen Snyder's vision yet, so who knows.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

They hired Zimmer, Jason!

[Jay 37,346]

Do you think I don't know that?

[Wojo 2,453]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sigh....

Jason....everything we have heard about this film indicates that it will be a departure from the previous Superman film. They want to deliberately put their own stamp on it. Suggesting that Gia would be suitable if simply absurd! That is like saying he would have been suitable for The Dark Knight.

[Brónach 1,302]

I'm finding it hilarious that Zimmer is actually scoring this film. That sounds like something you would read in a random sarcastic JWFAN comment, but it's true.

[KK 3,307]

Actually it sounds like a big JWFan prank. I wouldn't have been surprised if that was this years April Fools joke. It would have been a lot funnier than the time you guys tried to trick everyone that Zimmer was helping out with Tintin.

But alas, its all true.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Sigh....

Jason....everything we have heard about this film indicates that it will be a departure from the previous Superman film. They want to deliberately put their own stamp on it. Suggesting that Gia would be suitable if simply absurd! That is like saying he would have been suitable for The Dark Knight.

I'm with Stefan on this one. I strongly doubt Giacchino's style would work for what Nolan/Snyder have in mind.

Sounds like Jason's going through withdrawal or something.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I'm finding it hilarious that Zimmer is actually scoring this film. That sounds like something you would read in a random sarcastic JWFAN comment, but it's true.

Actually, I may have posted something like that. I'll have to check some of my old posts...

[Jay 37,346]

Sigh....

Jason....everything we have heard about this film indicates that it will be a departure from the previous Superman film. They want to deliberately put their own stamp on it. Suggesting that Gia would be suitable if simply absurd! That is like saying he would have been suitable for The Dark Knight.

I'm sure Giacchino would have written a GREAT score for The Dark Knight!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Trust me, LeBlanc, I've done some rescore, using Gravity Of The Situation on an action scene from TDK, and it didn't work at all!

[Jay 37,346]

Sigh....

Jason....everything we have heard about this film indicates that it will be a departure from the previous Superman film. They want to deliberately put their own stamp on it. Suggesting that Gia would be suitable if simply absurd! That is like saying he would have been suitable for The Dark Knight.

I'm with Stefan on this one. I strongly doubt Giacchino's style would work for what Nolan/Snyder have in mind.

Sounds like Jason's going through withdrawal or something.

Any composer worth is wait can composer music for films in a variety of styles. It's not like Images sounds like Star Wars or Always or The Man Who Loves Cat Dancing or Superman, just like its not like Medal of Honor sounds like Let Me In or Star Trek or The Family Stone or Alias. The fact that you personally don't like a composer doesn't mean that composer isn't capable of composing a score to a film that the majority of people would like.

[KK 3,307]

I'm also with Stefan. I don't think Giacchino would have been a good fit for Nolans films. Bring on Goldenthal, Trevor Jones and Don Davis!

[Wojo 2,453]

Actually, what Ledger's Joker performance needed was more timeless rock staples by The Artist Formerly Known As But Then Changed His Name Again Anyways Back To And So Should Probably Stay Known Forever And Ever For All Time As Prince.

[Jay 37,346]

Trust me, LeBlanc, I've done some rescore, using Gravity Of The Situation on an action scene from TDK, and it didn't work at all!

Well that's my point. Had he scored the film, it wouldn't have sounded like any of his other scores, as he hasn't scored a film of that manner yet.

[Quintus 5,399]

Gia is nowhere near as good as Zimmer anyway.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And he never will!

[Wojo 2,453]

Well he certainly has a devoted cult of followers here just like Zimmer.

[Jay 37,346]

I find his scores to be the most enjoyable out of all the new material coming out as film scores these days. It comes to the closest to the 80s and 90s period of film scoring sound that I love so much.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

As someone who has been aware of Giacchino since his Sega Genesis days, to say that he could not write a Dark Knight score is to say something stupid.

He's written more purely electronic music than Hans Zimmer. Not samples...good ol FM synths.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

Actually it sounds like a big JWFan prank. I wouldn't have been surprised if that was this years April Fools joke. It would have been a lot funnier than the time you guys tried to trick everyone that Zimmer was helping out with Tintin.

But alas, its all true.

Zimmer could work his entire life and still not write a score close in quality and complexity to Tintin. Williams casually knocks out more memorable themes in a single movie than Zimmer does in a dozen. As the Filmtracks review says, Zimmer has absolutely whored himself out and writes trash these days. To call what he writes "music" is to devalue that term.