.

[Wojo 2,453]

Anyone who has ever played the original 1998 Starcraft strategy game for PC knows how many lines the Terran dropship "borrowed" from Aliens. I never noticed because I played the game before seeing the movie, and had to have a friend in college point them out.

The dropship says:

"In the pipe, five by five."

"Hang on, we're in for some chop."

The marine also asks "How do I get out of this chickenshit outfit?" (0:45)

[media=]

[Quintus 5,399]

One for Cremers:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1000617-aliens/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/alien/

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I prefer Event Horizon.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

A complete absence of shouty and whiny marines in the original is also a plus.

But surely Veronica Cartwright in the first film out-whines all...

At least she's not shouting unbelievably cliched lines with overbearing overtones of military patriotism. At least Veronica's fear seemed genuine. I'm pretty sure real marines are nowhere near as dumb as those in Aliens.

Again, I really liked both films, but Aliens its short-comings.

I don't think you know the meaning of patriotism! The marines are never identified by country. They are never patriotic. They are cocky colonial marines.

real world marines are an elite force, they get to be cocky because they are that good, but the aliens are unlike anything they've ever seen. The aliens pulled a blitzkrieg. You can be good, you can be justifiably cocky and still get your ass kicked.

And yes Lambert was the whiniest b****. OMG it was such a relief when she died. She whined so much I really felt like it might kill the alien.

Alien was nominated for 2 Academy Awards, and Aliens was nominated for 7 Academy Awards. They were both fantastic films deserving of all the accolades the received.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Our next thread should be AVP vs. AVPR. In that case, I'd pick AVP since at least it has decent production values and a likable lead. AVPR is just a piece of schlock.

[KK 3,307]

I don't think you know the meaning of patriotism! The marines are never identified by country. They are never patriotic. They are cocky colonial marines.

real world marines are an elite force, they get to be cocky because they are that good, but the aliens are unlike anything they've ever seen. The aliens pulled a blitzkrieg. You can be good, you can be justifiably cocky and still get your ass kicked.

Fair enough. I did misuse word. I was thinking more along the lines of the adoration of the military (as hornist put it), but looking back at it, thats clearly not what the film was going for.

And yes Lambert was the whiniest b****. OMG it was such a relief when she died. She whined so much I really felt like it might kill the alien.

If the could have harnessed that whining, she would have made a kickass weapon

Alien was nominated for 2 Academy Awards, and Aliens was nominated for 7 Academy Awards. They were both fantastic films deserving of all the accolades the received.

Aye, that I agree with.

I know most critics and people prefer Aliens (heck even Weaver preferred Cameron's film), but I simply liked Alien more for what it was going for. Both films are so radically different. I just prefer the idea of psychological trauma, and the more primitive yet bleak idea of survival that was prevalent in Alien to the more triumphant tale of empowerment in Aliens. Aliens was a grand sci-fi adventure. I preferred the more intimate nature of Alien.

Please, don't take my word for it. Google the Aliens script for yourself - I suspect it'd be fairly easy to find out just how revered it is. It's widely regarded as one of the greatest sci-fi screenplays ever.

Hmmm. I suspect I'll have to watch this film again soon, especially considering I've probably missed a significant aspect of the film (the Vietnam allegory).

[JoeinAR 1,949]

the thing about both films is that each of the characters is very well defined, very well drawn. They do what is expected. Only a few characters have significant character arcs. Ripley naturally in both films, Ash in Alien, Bishop, Hicks, and Newt in Aliens, But Dallas, Brett, Lambert, Hudson, Vasquez, and Burke give great performances. Hell no actor in either film is subpar.

[Maglorfin 196]

Nostalgia plays a significant part, but Aliens has always been my favourite in the franchise and just one of my favourite movies ever. It's the ultimate action movie. That it's set in space, has genuine scares and suspense, a motley crew of fantastic characters and THE most quotable script of all time, and well, it's just one of those great stars were aligned sort movie's. Very special to me.

However as someone who considers themselves to be pretty well balanced and versed in film, I know I'm in a minority when placing it higher than Alien, which is fine.

My opinion is exactly the same. As a kid, I actually saw Aliens before Alien, and I remember it scared the living daylights out of me, in addition of course to making a huge impact as such a great, relentless and powerful combination of action, sci-fi and horror elements in a single awesome movie, an impression which was only strengthened upon seeing the 17 minutes longer director's cut. I must of course not forget the score which to this day remains one of my Horner's favourite works.

[Thor 7,491]

Both films are extremely important to me and my whole film interest, and I've seen them both maybe 30 times each. If I absolutely HAD to choose, I'd pick the first one because of the way it approaches the film medium, but the second is more entertaining. Both are 10/10 movies.

[crocodile 8,000]

Aliens is a fun film, but you can smell the 80's from a mile. Time wasn't as kind to it as it was to the first one.

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

That depends on how you feel about movies made in the eightees. I love the look of movies from that decade more than any other. To me, a movie which looks 80s dated is cosy movie heaven.

Aliens has aged just how I like 'em to. And you know what? Those sets, the grungy, oil-thick lighting and special effects have aged just beautifully without even bringing nostalgia into it.

[Ricard 2,245]

That depends on how you feel about movies made in the eightees. I love the look of movies from that decade more than any other. To me, a movie which looks 80s dated is cosy movie heaven.

Kids today...

[Quintus 5,399]

Nostalgic movies weren't made before 1977

[A24 4,331]

Aliens is a fun film, but you can smell the 80's from a mile. Time wasn't as kind to it as it was to the first one.

Karol

Without going deeper into the subject, you mean it oozes the spirit of the Reagan era, right?

[Quintus 5,399]

Yes! Exactly that. Temple of Doom, Gremlins, BTTF, ILM composite work and glorious matte backgrounds. Forget Reagan; the era of Steven Spielberg Presents is rightly considered a vintage decade in cinema.

Lee - who's well aware that Alex meant it in exactly the opposite way to me.

[Brónach 1,302]

I'm a bit that way with 70's looking films.

[Quintus 5,399]

I can even sit down and smile at shit movie's like Ewoks: Caravan of Courage and Willow purely due to the way they look.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Aliens is a fun film, but you can smell the 80's from a mile. Time wasn't as kind to it as it was to the first one.

Karol

that's the biggest bullshit in this thread.

[Jay 37,340]

Paul Reiser's clothes and hair is very 80s.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

yeah 2180's

if the hair and clothes are a distraction for people then the film probably wasn't for them in the first place. a bunch of Heidi Klum wannabees.

[Quintus 5,399]

Paul Reiser's hair is always the go-to exhibit no.1 for the case against Aliens, you know that Joey. It's always a matter of time before I roll eyes yet again at whoever's feeling "sharp" enough to play the bouffant card this time. Well done Jason, this time it's you. I'm sure you must find Han Solo's seventies-conditioned cut to be terribly distracting from all the fantastic sets and special effects throughout the Star Wars trilogy. And that's without bringing up the incredibly realistic "makeup" of Greedo and Ackbar. Nope, I just can't tear my eyes away from the haircuts. They really ruin the trilogy for me.

Maybe they should digitally paint over all offending movie haircuts just to force people to watch other aspects of a movie, such as the performances and scene.

AAARRRRRRGGGHHH MAKE IT STOP!!!

[Jay 37,340]

I don't find anything in Aliens distracting or out of place, I love everything in it

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I know you do. Your criticisms tend to be more film based rather than ones of era and fashion.

[crocodile 8,000]

Aliens is a fun film, but you can smell the 80's from a mile. Time wasn't as kind to it as it was to the first one.

Karol

that's the biggest bullshit in this thread.

I'm flattered.

Not that I had anything vile in mind when I posted this.

It's not the hairdo or anything like that. It's more about the feel, dialogue and stuff like that. Hard to explain.

Karol

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Croc is right. Aliens is very 80's.

I find it very ridiculous.

Alien is timeless. Like most of JW's scores.

[Quintus 5,399]

And yet Horner's Aliens score remains superior to 90% of Williams' output in the past ten years.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Aliens score? Is there some music there between the crap. I don't recall.

Nothing from horner is superior than 50 best of Williams.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I admire Alien's purity. The perfect film.

[Quintus 5,399]

Nothing from horner is superior than 50 best of Williams.

Horner circa 80s & 90s > Williams circa 2000+

I never was a fan of the admittedly good Harry Potter scores.

I admire Alien's purity. The perfect film.

Definitely. It ranks alongside the likes of Jaws and E.T. in that regard. It's arguably a more "perfect" film that Aliens.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Nothing from horner is superior than 50 best of Williams.

Horner circa 80s & 90s > Williams circa 2000+

I'm sorry. There is a gap between War Horse, Tintin, Geisha, Sith, Azkaban, A.I. and anything jimmy wrote . The gap is a lightyear.

[Quintus 5,399]

Sorry, but I don't value your own musician-centric point of view where music for film is concerned. It's nothing personal.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

So basically musicians do not know anything about film scoring?

[Quintus 5,399]

Of course I don't think that. That would be a staggeringly ridiculous thing to say.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

So basically musicians do not know anything about film scoring?

I would imagine the vast majority of them do not. It's most likely a fact.

[Wojo 2,453]

Just because you can drive a car doesn't mean you can build one.

[KK 3,307]

And yet Horner's Aliens score remains superior to 90% of Williams' output in the past ten years.

I never understood people's love for Horner's Aliens score. Yes, those bits of action are just sublime, but other than that, its mostly a lot of atmospheric material, although I understand if people enjoy that. But there's also the fact that this score is extremely derivative. Nearly everything here has been heard in superior forms in past works.

Enjoyable, but not as great as people cut it out to be. I wouldn't really put it above modern Williams.

[Brónach 1,302]

It's an exercise of copy paste. It sounds great though. Classic Horner process.

I prefer modern Williams to 80's Horner. Horner has some stuff around like The Land Before Time that I really like though.

[KK 3,307]

It's an exercise of copy paste. It sounds great though. Classic Horner process.

Agreed, the highlights are really great! But there a lot of people who rank Aliens as their favourite Horner. I have a hard time wrapping my head around that.

[Incanus 5,714]

This talk just inspired me to listen to Goldsmith's original. The certain kind of economy of his score, creating suspence and horror with carefully paced effects is almost hypnotic until it mounts to the panicky action which is itself built more on tension than outright action drive, the primal bursts of brass in the midst of the carefully constructed orchestral chaos driving fear into our hearts. There is a lot of both craft and understanding of human nature, what makes us afraid or tense and how to express it musically in Goldsmith's work, which of course makes him a master film composer.

Horner's score is pretty great but for me alas too derivative of himself and others to be one of his absolute greats. He continues where Goldsmith left off and inserts the military stance to the music, the action music being much more driving and rousing but he also succeeds in addressing the horror aspect of the story as well with music more closely modelled to Goldsmith's atmospheric style.

Alien scores ended up quite a bit like Star Trek ones where the composers followed each other on the assigments, took different routes (Horner did not slavishly follow Goldsmith's lead with either) with their sensibilities and styles and created such esteemed works for both series that have become genre classic and fan favourites.

[Quintus 5,399]

So basically musicians do not know anything about film scoring?

I would imagine the vast majority of them do not. It's most likely a fact.

To be fair to Hornist, I didn't want to throw him in with such a sweeping and frankly brutal generalisation of all musicians, but yeah, your way of putting it is much better.

[chuck 154]

Alien scores ended up quite a bit like Star Trek ones where the composers followed each other on the assigments, took different routes (Horner did not slavishly follow Goldsmith's lead with either) with their sensibilities and styles and created such esteemed works for both series that have become genre classic and fan favourites.

Same goes with the Harry Potter series.

[Incanus 5,714]

Alien scores ended up quite a bit like Star Trek ones where the composers followed each other on the assigments, took different routes (Horner did not slavishly follow Goldsmith's lead with either) with their sensibilities and styles and created such esteemed works for both series that have become genre classic and fan favourites.

Same goes with the Harry Potter series.

Let's not go there. Please. Let's stick to Alien and Aliens in this thread. This kind of thing can so easily get out of hand.

[A24 4,331]

Paul Reiser's clothes and hair is very 80s.

The whole look of the movie is trapped in the '80s. When I got the Blu-ray set, I watched Aliens directly after Alien and, I must say, the difference came as a shock. In Alien the design is the statement. The attention to detail, the whole look of the film ... watching the extremely detailed, layered, dense Metal Hurlant-ish sets, Giger's amazing work, Scott's skilled registration, it starts to dawn on you that Alien is in fact an artist's exhibition molded into a movie. Ridley Scott also seems to tribute Alien to the designers who worked on it, for it's their names that appear first when the film is over.

Alex

[Quintus 5,399]

Indeed. But with regards to Aliens, it's a state of mind. Some of us embrace what you call "trapped" - the purposefully negative connotations of which simply do not exist.

[Brónach 1,302]

Alien is trapped in an eighties comic book magazine.

[Quintus 5,399]

Hmm, that's actually a REALLY nice way to spin it.

Nice and insightful, Chaac!

[A24 4,331]

Alien is trapped in an eighties comic book magazine.

You do realize it's made in the '70s?

Nice and insightful, Chaac!

Nice sarcasm, Quint. (I hope)

[Quintus 5,399]

I assumed it was a typo. He meant Aliens, no?

[A24 4,331]

Let's hope so.

Obi Wan: OMG, there goes our only hope!

Yoda: No, there is another one ...

Obi Wan: Chaac has a sister?

[Brónach 1,302]

I was thinking on Metal Hurlant, that started in 1974 and continued into the eighties. And yes I was talking about Alien which I know when it was released. Alien is like something by the Humanoïdes.

In Spain they published Totem with a lot of that kind of work from 1977 into the eighties.

I could just have said the seventies as well.