What film brought John Williams his success?

[russds 8]

I think people like JW who hit the sort of 'legendary' caliber have many, many milestones. Jaws comes to my mind as one of his first big milestones, and really put him on the map, but as others have mentioned, it was Images that got Spielberg to notice JW which lead to him scoring Jaws. Another huge milestone was Star Wars, which came because Spielberg recommended JW, which came because he scored Images, etc. He's continually gotten excellent opportunities, and delivered on each one with immense talent and hard work.

I think it's wonderful that many ages of people look fondly on JW for different scores like freshman in college are total Harry potter products.

I've also found it interesting how the different generations think of JW. For me, when I first think of JW, i think of the 80's and 90's, Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Jurassic Park, because that's when I first started to notice and appreciate him. But when talking to younger generations, they think of Harry Potter. What a career to be in the conscious of 3-4 generations. wow.

[Thor 7,451]

As others have pointed out, there are several ways to interpret this thread. Williams 'breakthrough' is obviously DADDY-O, being his first feature film. Then you have HOW TO STEAL A MILLION being his first A movie. The Oscar for his FIDDLER adaptation cemented this status, as well some high profile things like the Irwin Allen stuff (both tv shows and films). Then you have the upper A list status through JAWS and the legend status with STAR WARS. Everything since then is just icing on the legend cake.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

Spielberg doesn't need a writing credit for E.T.

It's the most Spielberg we'll ever see on film.

What do you mean by this, and why is it more Spielberg than "CE3K", "Hook", of "Schindler's List"?

If you need to ask you'll never know, if you know, you do not need to ask.

Assume I don't know. Please enlighten us.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Spielberg doesn't need a writing credit for E.T.

It's the most Spielberg we'll ever see on film.

What do you mean by this, and why is it more Spielberg than "CE3K", "Hook", of "Schindler's List"?

If you need to ask you'll never know, if you know, you do not need to ask.

Assume I don't know. Please enlighten us.

Just watch it (ET) and you'll understand. I'm sorry you including Hook. It clearly does not belong. I'm pretty sure SS's childhood is not represented by that awful film. And though Spielberg being Jewish and have an understanding of that horrible time his film is a beautiful representation of another authors work and not his own childhood. Close Encounters is your best suggestion. It is very similar in themes to ET from an opposite view. I love both films.

[A24 4,322]

You have to remember, Star Wars was a small budget sci-fi film and Lucas wasn't a household name back then. Somehow the success of Jaws has led him to a relatively unknown director with a nice saturday matinee film for kids (Williams' own words) and with no stars. It didn't lead to the top movies of that time. Overall, the music of Jaws didn't stand out that much. It mostly did what it had to do and it mostly sounded like other scores from that period. It was still some kind of background, conventional score. The music of Star Wars is a totally different ball game. The combining of never-seen-before science fiction images with a 1940's full-blown orchestral score was something so unexpected that it hit people in the face! That soundtrack broke sales records of instrumental music all over the world and renewed the general interest, not only in golden age film composers such as Korngold, Hermann, Rozsa, et cetera., but also in classical music in general. A lot of people AND musicians became interested (en masse) in film music and classical music because of Star Wars.

Alex

[indy4 155]

You have to remember, Star Wars was a small budget sci-fi film and Lucas wasn't a household name back then. Somehow the success of Jaws has led him to a relatively unknown director with a nice saturday matinee film for kids (Williams' own words) with no stars. It didn't lead to the top movies of that time. Overall, the music of Jaws didn't stand out that much. It mostly did what it had to do and it mostly sounded like other scores from that period. It was still some kind of background, conventional score. The music of Star Wars is a totally different ball game. The combining of never-seen-before science fiction images with a 1940's full-blown orchestral score was something so unexpected that it hit people in the face! That soundtrack broke sales records of instrumental music all over the world and renewed the general interest, not only in golden age film composers such as Korngold, Hermann, Rozsa, et cetera., but also in classical music in general. A lot of people AND musicians became interested (en masse) in film music and classical music because of Star Wars.

Alex

I think that's definitely a fair assessment of Star Wars and its impact, but I also think you underestimate the power of the score from Jaws. Spielberg himself said that the music was responsible for at least 50% of the film's success, and it has since gone on to become one of the most iconic pieces of music ever written (I'd say the theme from Jaws and the murder music from Psycho are probably tied for number one). I don't think it's a coincidence that famous directors like Alfred Hitchcock and Clint Eastwood used Williams shortly after he scored Jaws.

Of course once Star Wars came along Williams was locked in as the most popular film composer of the time, but Jaws definitely played a part.

[A24 4,322]

It definitely played a part but it's simply incomparable to the revolution that was Star Wars.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

you're quite wrong, and Jaws lingering power is a testament to such. Jaws is anything conventional or a "background" score. It's main theme is better known than even Star Wars.

[A24 4,322]

Learn to discuss in a normal and intelligent way and we might have a conversation, Joey. Almost all your posts start with "NO, YOU ARE WRONG!" Boring and unconstructive.The music of Star Wars was very unexpected. In comparison, it makes Jaws sound conventional and more of its time. I can hardly sing the tune of Jaws so I really don't believe people will recognize better than Star Wars, Raiders or ET. Instead of singling out one detail, try to understand the gist of a post. The music of Star Wars was everywhere. It was such a big hit that everyone covered it. All kinds of different versions popped up in all kinds of genres. I don't think that happened once with Jaws. Jaws didn't revolutionize the way that Star Wars did.

Alex

[Ren 75]

Hmmm. I disagree. I think Jaws is incredible. And I can absolutely agree with Joey on that respect. For some reason, whether or not people have seen Jaws or not, the two note motif is universally recognized by just about any age. Hell. I've even used it feeding my son - as the spoon approaches. He's going to know the foreshadowing game long before he realizes his first birthday was a scifi party (star trek/wars) etc. I think Joey has a good argument that Jaws definitely has had incredible influence. People STILL get star wars and Indiana Jones themes mixed up if they are idiots. Everyone knows Jaws

[Brónach 1,301]

The music of Star Wars was very unexpected. In comparison, it makes Jaws sound conventional and more of its time. I can hardly sing the tune of Jaws

Star Wars music is unconventional...?

And as if Jaws was difficult to sing!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Learn to discuss in a normal and intelligent way and we might have a conversation, Joey. Almost all your posts start with "NO, YOU ARE WRONG!" Boring and unconstructive.The music of Star Wars was very unexpected. In comparison, it makes Jaws sound conventional and more of its time. I can hardly sing the tune of Jaws so I really don't believe people will recognize better than Star Wars, Raiders or ET. Instead of singling out one detail, try to understand the gist of a post. The music of Star Wars was everywhere. It was such a big hit that everyone covered it. All kinds of different versions popped up in all kinds of genres. I don't think that happened once with Jaws. Jaws didn't revolutionize the way that Star Wars did.

Alex

I will continue to say it until you are right. Sorry if that is too conventional for you. I'ts really rather sad that you cannot hum da dum da dum. You're not much of a JW fan if you cannot even hear John's greatest scores in your head, let alone hum them. Star Wars might be more musically diverse but you're selling Jaws short on it's impact. Jaws is memorable, it's every bit a 4 star out of 4 star score as is Star Wars. It's broached the social consciousness before Star Wars did and it's stayed there. Hell the Jaws theme was a Billboard top 40 (#32) during the summer of '75. Star Wars may have had more success but that's also because Jaws got there first and paved a path.

[A24 4,322]

Star Wars music is unconventional...?

Yes, and because of the reasons I mentioned.

[KK 3,307]

Jaws is incredibly iconic and has become synonymous with approaching danger with mainstream culture. It's also interesting to note that the Jaws theme gets more attention in popular culture (ex. parodies, comedies, etc.) than Star Wars. It's arguably received greater exposure.

And like Ren mentioned. There are idiots out there who confuse Williams' hit themes, but Jaws stands on its own.

[A24 4,322]

Jaws has never been covered and it was never in the pop charts. So no, it's not bigger in pop culture. The pulse is iconic but that's it. It's an effect, just like the screeching violins of Psycho are an effect. Funny how much people suddenly pop up thinking that Jaws had more influence on film music and artists in the next decennium than Star Wars.

[Brónach 1,301]

Star Wars music is unconventional...?

Yes, and because of the reasons I mentioned.

It was uncoventional in the sense that it had a big commercial impact unlike other film music at the time?

I may have misunderstood you. I mean, musically, it was trying to be very classic, not unconventional.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Jaws has never been covered and it was never in the pop charts. So no, it's not bigger in pop culture. The pulse is iconic but that's it. It's an effect, just like the screeching violins of Psycho are an effect. Funny how much people suddenly pop up thinking that Jaws had more influence on film music and artists in the next decennium than Star Wars.

Alex, I just stated that Jaws main title made the Billboard top 40 at #32. So yes it was in the pop charts. I guess facts are irrelevant to you. No one is diminishing Star Wars impact, but you're sure as hell trying to dimish Jaws.

[A24 4,322]

Stop saying that I'm wrong. Where are the cover versions? You won't find any because it simply doesn't have that kind of melodious theme. Jaws certainly wasn't in the pop charts in Europe. It didn't influence like like Star Wars (movie and soundtrack, BTW). I'm not diminishing, I'm just observing realistically. Heck, even The Carpenters covered Star Wars! Are you hearing me, The Carpenters! Show me the bands that covered Jaws!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

sorry Alex but you were! We weren't discussing an opinion, we were dealing with real data, facts. Again facts mean nothing to you. I don't know if it made the charts in Europe. It made the charts in the US. It wasn't covered, it was the Jaws Main theme, the b side was the endtitles. I actually still have the 45 somewhere in the house.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Stop saying that I'm wrong. Where are the cover versions? You won't find any because it simply doesn't have that kind of melodious theme. Jaws certainly wasn't in the pop charts in Europe. It didn't influence like like Star Wars (movie and soundtrack, BTW). I'm not diminishing, I'm just observing realistically. Heck, even The Carpenters covered Star Wars! Are you hearing me, The Carpenters! Show me the bands that covered Jaws!

yes Alex, true greatness is measured by Meco covering you....

[JoeinAR 1,949]

On the Jaws DVD, the Look inside Jaws, by Laurent Bouzereau, John Williams specifically cites Jaws as having jumpstarted his career.

From the man himself, it's pretty damned definitive.

[A24 4,322]

yes Alex, true greatness is measured by Meco covering you....

Meco, The Carpenters, Tomita, Ron Carter, Trotter Trio, Rico Rogriguez, not to mention every bigband and brass band of every city. Star Wars became the world athem. Aliens would land while the music of Star Wars was playing, I kid you not.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And yet Jaws is were the public recondition started!

It was the summer of the shark! The heartbeat of the world was going DUM DUM...DUM DUM...DUM DUM...DUM DUM....

[A24 4,322]

But it didn't influence film music. It was just another disaster score, so to speak. It was still mostly rooted in the '70s and it stayed it the '70s while Star Wars reincarnated over and over again for many years to come. Of course, that is until Zimmer ended it. To be honest, I didn't mind, it had to end sometime, but did it have to be Zimmer?!

Alex

[JoeinAR 1,949]

But it didn't influence film music. It was just another disaster score, so to speak. It was still mostly rooted in the '70s and it stayed it the '70s while Star Wars reincarnated over and over again for many years to come. Of course, that is until Zimmer ended it. To be honest, I didn't mind, it had to end sometime, but did it have to be Zimmer?!

Alex

disaster score, what the hell are you talking about.

of course if you look at it from another direction, Towering Inferno, disaster film score, one of John's 4stars out of 4 stars score. Alfred Newman'ss Aiport Score, another great score, James Horner's score for Titanic, another great score. So Jaws is in great company

[indy4 155]

But it didn't influence film music. It was just another disaster score, so to speak. It was still mostly rooted in the '70s and it stayed it the '70s while Star Wars reincarnated over and over again for many years to come. Of course, that is until Zimmer ended it. To be honest, I didn't mind, it had to end sometime, but did it have to be Zimmer?!

It's impact on film music was certainly less than that of Star Wars, but we're talking about the score that "made JW successful," not the one that changed the art of film scoring.

[Thor 7,451]

I don't know why you guys are talking about JAWS and STAR WARS. Williams had acquired his 'first success' long before those.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I don't know why you guys are talking about JAWS and STAR WARS. Williams had acquired his 'first success' long before those.

John says Jaws was what jump started his career, but yes he had wonderful scores before, just not that many "perfect ones that he's have in abundance from 75 to 85.

[KK 3,307]

But it didn't influence film music. It was just another disaster score, so to speak. It was still mostly rooted in the '70s and it stayed it the '70s while Star Wars reincarnated over and over again for many years to come. Of course, that is until Zimmer ended it. To be honest, I didn't mind, it had to end sometime, but did it have to be Zimmer?!

Alex

Star Wars did play a bigger role in revolutionizing the film music industry than Jaws. But Jaws is what brought Williams public awareness. Before that, he was a respectable composer in the industry (with a couple of Oscar nominations). But Jaws jump-started his career. Star Wars made him a mega pop star. Superman proved SW wasn't a fluke.

[Thor 7,451]

I don't know why you guys are talking about JAWS and STAR WARS. Williams had acquired his 'first success' long before those.

John says Jaws was what jump started his career, but yes he had wonderful scores before, just not that many "perfect ones that he's have in abundance from 75 to 85.

I wouldn't say it 'jump-started' his career. His career was already very good; even an Oscar on the mantlepiece. But if it did anything, it CEMENTED his status in the upper echelon of the A list.

[Faleel 5,326]

Jaws sped up the tempo's in his compositions, thats for sure.

[Once 604]

I wouldn't say it 'jump-started' his career.

But clearly he would himself.

On the Jaws DVD, the Look inside Jaws, by Laurent Bouzereau, John Williams specifically cites Jaws as having jumpstarted his career.

From the man himself, it's pretty damned definitive.

[Thor 7,451]

I wouldn't say it 'jump-started' his career.

But clearly he would himself.

On the Jaws DVD, the Look inside Jaws, by Laurent Bouzereau, John Williams specifically cites Jaws as having jumpstarted his career.

From the man himself, it's pretty damned definitive.

Yeah, but he also said HOW TO STEAL A MILLION was his first A movie, which is also 'jump-starting' his career. It's all in the definition.

[Once 604]

He didn't say How to Steal a Million 'jump-started' his career. He said is was his first A movie. Maybe, to him, that's two very different things.

[Thor 7,451]

He didn't say How to Steal a Million 'jump-started' his career. He said is was his first A movie. Maybe, to him, that's two very different things.

Maybe. But we all interpret these things differently. Whatever he may have said himself, I think 'jump-starting' is the wrong word to use for JAWS. I think 'cementing' an already existing A list status is more fitting. But of course, Williams is too humble to ever say that.

[publicist 4,643]

And Williams A -List 1974 doesn't mean much compared to Williams A-List 1983 and so forth. JAWS was the big blockbuster prelude and with all the frenzy it built, Williams' name got a whole new sound - of unerring success. Nobody would've claimed that about the composer of THE COWBOYS or PETE AND TILLIE...or even POSEIDON ADVENTURE.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

You have to remember, Star Wars was a small budget sci-fi film and Lucas wasn't a household name back then. Somehow the success of Jaws has led him to a relatively unknown director with a nice saturday matinee film for kids (Williams' own words) and with no stars. It didn't lead to the top movies of that time. Overall, the music of Jaws didn't stand out that much. It mostly did what it had to do and it mostly sounded like other scores from that period. It was still some kind of background, conventional score. The music of Star Wars is a totally different ball game. The combining of never-seen-before science fiction images with a 1940's full-blown orchestral score was something so unexpected that it hit people in the face! That soundtrack broke sales records of instrumental music all over the world and renewed the general interest, not only in golden age film composers such as Korngold, Hermann, Rozsa, et cetera., but also in classical music in general. A lot of people AND musicians became interested (en masse) in film music and classical music because of Star Wars.

Alex

Alex, I don't call $14,000,000 for "Star Wars" a small budget, not in 1976, I don't. That was the cost of "TTI"...

[JoeinAR 1,949]

11 million not 14 million.

Jaws was 9 million in '75, but it was looked down upon by Universal who made doing the effects work difficult because it felt the movie Hindinburg which had a bigger budget was a more important film.

[publicist 4,643]

JAWS was budgeted at 3 or 4 millions - the price tag it finally reached never would have passed the laughing stage at Universal if they would've tried to get it greenlighted at that budget.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

thank goodness they never pulled the plug on it. It may have double it's budget, but it has made Universal a lot of money. And a lot of us very entertained.

[Wojo 2,453]

It's probably my favorite movie of all time. And still one of the rare few where the movie is superior to the book.

[Thor 7,451]

And Williams A -List 1974 doesn't mean much compared to Williams A-List 1983 and so forth. JAWS was the big blockbuster prelude and with all the frenzy it built, Williams' name got a whole new sound - of unerring success. Nobody would've claimed that about the composer of THE COWBOYS or PETE AND TILLIE...or even POSEIDON ADVENTURE.

I beg to differ. The A list was secured years before JAWS. But it's not always easy to stay on that list. Even an Oscar won't automatically give yout that. JAWS, however, did that for him. With STAR WARS, he rose from top A list to legend, and as I said earlier -- everything since then has merely been icing on the legend cake.

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

He didn't say How to Steal a Million 'jump-started' his career. He said is was his first A movie. Maybe, to him, that's two very different things.

Maybe. But we all interpret these things differently. Whatever he may have said himself, I think 'jump-starting' is the wrong word to use for JAWS. I think 'cementing' an already existing A list status is more fitting. But of course, Williams is too humble to ever say that.

I agree.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

It's probably my favorite movie of all time. And still one of the rare few where the movie is superior to the book.

20 days until the blu ray comes out.

[Quintus 5,399]

Amusing to see that sanctimonious hypocritical c**t Cremers thoroughly trumped in this thread. He probably hopes nobody noticed his slinking away from the debate, heh heh.

[A24 4,322]

Alex, I don't call $14,000,000 for "Star Wars" a small budget, not in 1976, I don't. That was the cost of "TTI"...

It was budgeted for 8 million and ended up costing 11 million because of production delays. You are absolutely right, Richard. It was a lot of money, even then, but it was considered relatively small for a big science fiction project. Close Encounters or costed twice that much. The budget for A Bridge Too Far, made in the same year, was 27 million. The Sorcerer: 22 million. New York, New York: 14 million. Excorcist: The Heretic: 14 million. That's why I remember Star Wars was often called a low budget film, but they were speaking 'relatively", of course.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

War Horse

[indy4 155]

War Horse may have given him the opportunity to write "Rounds," but it was "Rounds" that directly jumpstarted his career.

[A24 4,322]

Amusing to see that sanctimonious hypocritical c**t Cremers thoroughly trumped in this thread. He probably hopes nobody noticed his slinking away from the debate, heh heh.

What a juvenile and hateful post, Quint. I was out for the whole day. Calling me a "hypocritical cunt" is really low, even for you.

[Quintus 5,399]

It's a pleasure.