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It's time I come out and profess my love


Ren

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I was one of those blasphemous people who saw FOTR first and then decided to read the trillogy. I can't say it changed my life but it did blow me away and lotr is now and forever holding a special place in my heart( and movie collection).

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Reading LotR changed my life back in the 5th grade (around 10 or 11-ish) and I remember the other kids were staring at me for reading such a huge book. But I loved it and it really just had a profound effect on me. Considering how ignorant I was back then, I learnt of the movies quite a while later and I fell in love for the 2nd time.

To this day, I make sure I read LotR and associated Tolkien material at least once or twice a year. Tolkien season is always my favourite ;)

And unfortunately, I've never had the privilege of seeing a LotR concert, or any film music concert for that matter :(

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And unfortunately, I've never had the privilege of seeing a LotR concert, or any film music concert for that matter :(

Then your not a real man!

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And unfortunately, I've never had the privilege of seeing a LotR concert, or any film music concert for that matter :(

Then your not a real man!

Come on now. Spell you're correctly. And I haven't been either, not to lotr.

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I think the movies are "pretty good". Like above average compared the normal summer blockbuster. But not life changing in anyways. I never had LotR sites bookmarked or anything to check every news relating to the films or go on quoting LotR day in and day out.

to me it's at the level of Star Trek, I'm a fan but not something I obsessed over.

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Real movie fanboys have at least a few fansites bookmarked

I wasn't obsessed over HP but I did check Mugglenet and LeakyCauldron at the time

It's weird Ren, when you used to post like in 2002 you seemed way more into HP than LotR if I remember correctly

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Tolkien's writing in general is something I obsess more about than the films, an ancillary phenomenon. His ability to create this secondary world comes to me second to his beautiful aesthetics and visions he imparts in his writing, the details and depth of history indeed interesting but the style of his writing, the grasp of very human truths and enormous knowledge of our shared myths and legends and transporting them in some form into these stories is what really moves me and truly appeals to me.

I think Tolkien is responsible for my love for English language and really showing me the power of written word. He as a classical philologist and professor of English Literature had some bearing on my own interest in languages and choosing to study Classical Philology. The novel made me aware of poetry at that early age of 11 or 12 and this love has continued to this day as well. Through the novel came so many artistic impulses and inspiration to seek out other writers of fantasy, myths etc. that it led to quite unexpected discoveries I might have not made without reading this book. So I can say it has been very influential in my life.

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I read the books when I was young and I found them too elusive, metaphorical. It's not even certain that some characters like Sauron really exist in a physical sense.

I mean all the environments exist in a physical sense, the Orcs, Trolls, the fortresses, the talking trees, dragons, giant spiders ...but at the core of the story you don't know if there's anything real or the whole story is just a metaphor

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I think Tolkien's world is very real in the sense that he didn't insert allegory or heavy handed metaphor into it since he hated it so much himself. Some things like Sauron are left intangible because they do represent evil in a form that is beyond any man to go against physically for it would spell certain defeat and it also means that evil cannot be defeated by a simple single blow but Sauron is none the less a real, physical being.

What Tolkien does is use his experiences in his writing which of course is what writers do and this is what people have been so desperately tried to link to all kinds of things from atom bomb to battles of Somme, applying allegory to where there is in the intent of the author none. Of course Tolkien carries his own values, ideals and beliefs into some aspects of the story, his dislike of industrialization reflected in the Nature VS gears and wheels and smoke and wanton destruction of the natural world, represented by Saruman and Sauron or his love of the simple country life embodied in the Hobbits.

But I think that you can read Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit or the Silmarillion a supremely interesting story for story's sake, not some kind of metaphorical manifesto, where every turn of phrase contains some hidden meaning or veiled reflection of topical events.

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I didn't like that Sauron and to an extent Gandalf were intangible.

at least Voldermort was real and not some deity playing war games

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I didn't like that Sauron and to an extent Gandalf were intangible.

at least Voldermort was real and not some deity playing war games

Voldemort is as intangible as Sauron for a long time in the story but his character is vastly different from Sauron, who is evil incarnate, not human to begin with. He is literally the driving force of evil and as such larger than any one man, indeed godlike as no one can go against him directly. But that is what evil really is. He represents a far more mythical being than paltry Voldemort. In the larger view Sauron is but a successor of evil as it is said in Lord of the Ring for there was a Dark Lord mightier than he was in far more ancient times. Sauron can be defeated, but evil itself is something that has to be battled again and again as it rises in new forms every time. This is also shown in the Scouring the Shire at the end of the novel. Even though Sauron is defeated, evil remains as there are always some who would oppress and corrupt and defile. Sauron is also a dramatic device, creating a world engulfing threat to the very free life on earth. As such Sauron is more powerful to my mind than a regular villain, who heroes can face directly, stab him with a sword and go home, world saved and happy place again.
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Tolkien's writing in general is something I obsess more about than the films, an ancillary phenomenon. His ability to create this secondary world comes to me second to his beautiful aesthetics and visions he imparts in his writing, the details and depth of history indeed interesting but the style of his writing, the grasp of very human truths and enormous knowledge of our shared myths and legends and transporting them in some form into these stories is what really moves me and is the appeal for me.

I think Tolkien is responsible for my love for English language and really showing me the power of written word. He as a classical philologist and professor of English Literature had some bearing on my own interest in languages and choosing to study Classical Philology. The novel made me aware of poetry at that early age of 11 or 12 and this love has continued to this day as well. Through the novel came so many artistic impulses and inspiration to seek out other writers of fantasy, myths etc. that it led to quite unexpected discoveries I might haven not made without reading this book. So I can say it has been very influential in my life.

Absolutely fabulous post. Thank you.

Re the Eye of Sauron. May I just say that ALL of Tolkien's writing when dealing with head antagonists is incredibly rich and often very frightening to me. I read the first Harry Potter book and never once did talk of The Nameless One get under my skin like the fearful whispers of Him did, from his looming fortress in Mordor. Tolkien's utter genius was to make the fantasy villain to end them all an absolute terror in the mind of the reader just by the mere suggestion of what might happen if he ever were to reclaim his biggest prize. Sauron was written as if he were the Devil himself, living among the people of his world and for 95% of the book he just worried the bloody shit out of me!

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Wow thank you guys for all this great insight on his writing. Km. a decade changes things and I feel that HP was drawn out, and lacked a good conclusion. And the scores were less on my radar. But you are right and you have a great memory.

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I think also a testament to the enduring appeal of the book is that it has had something relevant to tell me in each stage of my life and it still continues to inspire insight and new discoveries.

You can read it as a young teenager and be fascinated by the story and the fantastical and then when you get older you begin to see threads running through it that connect to so many things and you when older and wiser see themes and ideas that you didn't know to look for in it when you were 11 or 15 or even 20. And I think it is a mark of great art when it keeps on giving even after you have lived with it so long.

And as such there is no wrong or right way to read the novel but as the years go by I have come to see the narrative deeply mythological, in that the characters are of course of importance as people but they are in essence legendary and myth-like, depictions of individual virtues and flaws and ideals and evils. This world is near black and white in its depiction of these ideas of good and evil, the stories are almost like of a heroic society of ages past, where these tales carried a different society binding significance as they in part set the limits of those worlds and taught mores and moral values. They might contain some psychological depth but that was not their main concern. Greek myths, Roman stories of virtuous or villanous heroes and enemies, Iliad and Odyssey, Aeneis, Gilgamesh, Kalevala always come to mind when reading Tolkien, it is on that level of profundity.

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I agree with Lee and Incanus.

I love the Shadow Of The Past chapter from FOTR, were Gandalf begins to explain the possible origin of Bilbo's ring, and Middle earth suddenly becomes so much darker. From that moment there's a real sense of being watched or hunted that runs throughout the book.

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Do is Frodo, a Hobbit small

Re is Ren in comparison quite tall?

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I agree with Lee and Incanus.

I love the Shadow Of The Past chapter from FOTR, were Gandalf begins to explain the possible origin of Bilbo's ring, and Middle earth suddenly becomes so much darker. From that moment there's a real sense of being watched or hunted that runs throughout the book.

And that chapter was one of the few that was actually beautifully realised in film, and it's probobly one of the hardest to pull off. It's my favorite segment of the whole movie trilogy

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Voldemort is as intangible as Sauron for a long time in the story but his character is vastly different from Sauron, who is evil incarnate, not human to begin with. He is literally the driving force of evil and as such larger than any one man, indeed godlike as no one can go against him directly. But that is what evil really is. He represents a far more mythical being than paltry Voldemort. In the larger view Sauron is but a successor of evil as it is said in Lord of the Ring for there was a Dark Lord mightier than he was in far more ancient times. Sauron can be defeated, but evil itself is something that has to be battled again and again as it rises in new forms every time. This is also shown in the Scouring the Shire at the end of the novel. Even though Sauron is defeated, evil remains as there are always some who would oppress and corrupt and defile. Sauron is also a dramatic device, creating a world engulfing threat to the very free life on earth. As such Sauron is more powerful to my mind than a regular villain, who heroes can face directly, stab him with a sword and go home, world saved and happy place again.

Fully agreed. Which is also why I think people who complain that Sauron doesn't come out to face Frodo at the end of the novel/book simply don't get what it's all about. They obviously don't understand the threat that Sauron really is. Because if he encountered Frodo, for only one second, it would all be over. The fact that discovery equals certain doom shows how powerful, and invincible to all relevant forces, he is.

PJ's idea of having Sauron face Aragorn during the final battle would probably have ruined the entire movie.

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I love the Shadow Of The Past chapter from FOTR, were Gandalf begins to explain the possible origin of Bilbo's ring, and Middle earth suddenly becomes so much darker. From that moment there's a real sense of being watched or hunted that runs throughout the book.

If LOTR had a notable impact on my life (and it certainly did, together with the discovery of John Williams and film at about the same time), then The Shadow of the Past probably gets a significant share of the credit for that. The way it's constructed, the way Gandalf tells Frodo all this backstory in this setting, creates a unique atmosphere. Simply reading the title "The Shadow of the Past" makes me feel a hint of this truly vast scope covered in the chapter.

And that chapter was one of the few that was actually beautifully realised in film, and it's probobly one of the hardest to pull off. It's my favorite segment of the whole movie trilogy

I agree it's very well handled. At the same time, while I think the prologue in the movie is excellent, I still would like to see a version where it's actually all told during the Shadow of the Past sequence. There's a certain depth coming from Gandalf telling these events to Frodo - perhaps a bit like a university professor holding an excellent, gripping lecture.

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I think also a testament to the enduring appeal of the book is that it has had something relevant to tell me in each stage of my life and it still continues to inspire insight and new discoveries.

You can read it as a young teenager and be fascinated by the story and the fantastical and then when you get older you begin to see threads running through it that connect to so many things and you when older and wiser see themes and ideas that you didn't know to look for in it when you were 11 or 15 or even 20. And I think it is a mark of great art when it keeps on giving even after you have lived with it so long.

And as such there is no wrong or right way to read the novel but as the years go by I have come to see the narrative deeply mythological, in that the characters are of course of importance as people but they are in essence legendary and myth-like, depictions of individual virtues and flaws and ideals and evils. This world is near black and white in its depiction of these ideas of good and evil, the stories are almost like of a heroic society of ages past, where these tales carried a different society binding significance as they in part set the limits of those worlds and taught mores and moral values. They might contain some psychological depth but that was not their main concern. Greek myths, Roman stories of virtuous or villanous heroes and enemies, Iliad and Odyssey, Aeneis, Gilgamesh, Kalevala always come to mind when reading Tolkien, it is on that level of profundity.

Wonderful posts Incanus, and Lee too.

You've both nailed why I love Tolkien so much. I've always been fascinated by how Tolkien managed to create this vastly different world which had a mythology of its own. A world that completely immerses you and how he is able to instill various emotions in you. "Shadow of the Past" is a good example (love that chapter). And Shelob was truly frightening in the novel, and Ungoliant moreso in The Silmarillion. I've also always been in love with the rich thematic material in the novels which I believe is very much present. The natural good vs. evil, the industrialization vs. nature, etc. Tolkien's work is often very rich in its themes, mythology, themes, etc. And like Incanus said, its really Tolkien writing the great epic of our time, something that could be ranked amongst The Odyssey or The Illiad. These books are timeless.

Harry Potter on the other hand was a series I enjoyed as a kid, but I've grown out of it and find it overrated.

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I agree about Harry potter.

I definitely think that lotr and such are true timeless classics that hopefully will never ever be lost

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you don't know if there's anything real or the whole story is just a metaphor.

I think Tolkein would find that insulting, considering his dislike of allegory.

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I'm not sure if I understand the whole need for TLOTR to be "real" versus a metaphor. If you think that Middle-Earth and its fanciful fauna and magic actually existed at some point in our history or that Tolkien explicitly implies that it has, and you want to know why balrogs and dragons and trolls aren't found in the fossil record, or if you could set your ship towards the spot of Numenor, you are delusional. TLOTR is set in a possible historic or prehistoric Europe so that Tolkien doesn't have to reinvent all of the wheel with regard to his story. A bird is still a bird and a horse is still a horse and a man is still a man and the sun still comes up in the east and people still smoke tobacco and raise potatoes and drown in water and fear the cold and all that sort of thing. If it were set on a different planet, like on Barsoom or a fictional Mercury of antiquity where they still quote Shakespeare, then JRRT would have had to invent and explain a lot more than he already did. The fantastical beasts like goblins, trolls, and dragons, and the wonderful like elves, little people, and tree folk were mostly borrowed from existing Norse, Celtic, and German mythologies, making JRRT's job less difficult and allowing him to work on telling a story.

JRRT did hate metaphor and never planned on his tale to be an allegory, not even for The Great War or the bigger one that followed. Whatever parallels you draw are your own devices and there will be inconsistencies in how you draw these conclusions. Frankly, I have heard that Tolkien's first love was the languages that he created for his world, and the stories he told were simply the means by which his languages were created, evolved, and were used in daily lives. The stories, of course, put food on his table and made him a wealthy famous old man.

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Tolkien did not deny *applicability* though. The thought being that readers may well see parallels between certain ideas/concepts/ideals (mostly) in his story and in reality, but that no direct relations between characters or events are intended.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re the Eye of Sauron. May I just say that ALL of Tolkien's writing when dealing with head antagonists is incredibly rich and often very frightening to me. I read the first Harry Potter book and never once did talk of The Nameless One get under my skin like the fearful whispers of Him did, from his looming fortress in Mordor. Tolkien's utter genius was to make the fantasy villain to end them all an absolute terror in the mind of the reader just by the mere suggestion of what might happen if he ever were to reclaim his biggest prize. Sauron was written as if he were the Devil himself, living among the people of his world and for 95% of the book he just worried the bloody shit out of me!

I read the books a few years ago. I had a great time. I was even a fan for a while. And I do remember that the novel managed to be very fucking tense at times. I remember that the most.

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  • 6 years later...

I came across an article a while back, "How Lord of the Rings Changed my Life".  It basically contained the stories of people from all walks of life...bricklayers. astronauts teachers, scientists, students, etc. talking about the impact Tolkien had on their world. I wished I kept the article because it was incredibly inspiring. Art has an amazing capacity to help make us who we are. 

 

Tolkien and Lord of the Rings got me through my parents divorce growing up, and if it didn't literally save my life, it felt like it.

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Urgh, thanks for resurrecting a thread which to uninitiated newbies here makes me look like a total letch.

 

Some annoyingly necessary context then: the thread was made long after user Renovia and I were very well, um, "established" with one another; our banter was something others were well versed in and used to at the time. Hope that helps.

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23 minutes ago, Quintus said:

Some annoyingly necessary context then: the thread was made long after user Renovia and I were very well, um, "established" with one another; our banter was something others were well versed in and used to at the time. Hope that helps.

No worries, mate, I got the picture right away.

I take it she has retired, for the most part, from JWFan?

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13 hours ago, Quintus said:

Urgh, thanks for resurrecting a thread which to uninitiated newbies here makes me look like a total letch.

 

 

He he he...

 

6 hours ago, Quintus said:

Yeah Ren and alicebrallice got out of JWFAN while the going was still good. And now it's just the boys.

 

The good old days!

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