Lincoln - Theatrical Trailer Discussion

[Brónach 1,301]

It was not sarcasm although I suspected it could be in purpose because it looked far too obvious, but like I said I completely unfamiliar about this stuff. Thanks.

[MrJosh 892]

That'd be quite a twist, though. It'd be cool if the last scene of the film was taking place in Linky's bathroom: we see him removing all his white makeup, and then: THE END.

That sounds like a fantastic ending!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I know!

[gkgyver 1,645]

People are getting carried away with the word "derivative" here. The Hobbit you would expect to sound stylistically like The Lord of the Rings. It's the same composer, same universe, and an extension of the same story. That's like saying The Empire Strikes Back is derivative of Star Wars.

When i say derivative, i mean a sequel score that while implementing new material, relies on the previous film themes.

In this instance, ESB is derivative of SW, since it uses the force theme, leia's theme, lukes theme, ROTJ* even more so, and so on.

The hobbit wil be the same.

How the hell do you know?

I am most certain that the Hobbit won't "rely on the previous films' themes while implementing new material". It will be the other way around, it will be a new score that relies on new themes while implementing existing themes here or there. After all, this deals with new things, and that is the joy of being an artist, to constantly create new things, even when you are trying to create a whole.

Of course there are exceptions *cough* Hans *cough*

I certainly know that Williams' scores that are written at the same time tend to have similarities. The problem is that usually, they are released just few months apart. However, it is not like Williams was under severe stress when he did Lincoln, he had plenty of time to conjure it.

It's like Williams told himself, hey, I really like that sound I did for War Horse, let me explore that some more in Lincoln. It may be understandable from a composer's view, and Williams has worked himself into a position of semi-retirement to get away with that, and with Spielberg, he can do whatever the hell he wants to do anyway, but it has nothing to do with the once famed ability of Williams to tailor fit a score for any given film.

And I, indeed, have to remind ourselves that we are basing this on a two minute trailer piece.

There is nothing in this that gets me terribly excited about the score, but I'm still very much looking forward to all those soloists.

But, again, sorry, the Hobbit is in a whole different league for me. These Hobbit films are a once in a lifetime experience, and the umptieth Spielberg history drama ... not so much.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

for me only LIncoln>the hobbit

[gkgyver 1,645]

You won't even give it a try?

By the way, did Goldsmith really say that about Zimmer in your signature?

[TownerFan 4,983]

Judging from what I'm reading here and there, this is going to be quite controversial.

The music sounds very good, btw. And I also liked the Norman Rockwell-inspired composition of a few shots.

[Romão 2,274]

I'm sure this movie will stir up even more my curiosity for a period of history of which I am sadly ignorant

[gkgyver 1,645]

Hard to believe there was a time when presidents weren't bastards.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

You won't even give it a try?

By the way, did Goldsmith really say that about Zimmer in your signature?

I'm sure we'll see it because it will be an event film no doubt, but my interest is low. I never saw any of the LOTR films at the theatre.

JG said that about Zimmer

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Hah! Just came back to see peoples reactions here of Lincoln's music. Same assholes still pattering.

I hear no WarHorse there and the choir(0:44) is more like from Hook or Lament. The brass playing by CSO is brilliant, last time I heard the same

awesomeness in Gui-Gon's funeral by LSO. And compering this to the Hobbit music is sad, different league. No faggot's choir here.

Bye again!

[Wojo 2,453]

Hard to believe there was a time when presidents weren't bastards.

Really? I'm pretty sure that every president had his hand in dirty dealings, had skeletons in the closet, and was otherwise not as much of a saint as history would have us remember. The difference is that today's media and journalists have shed their morals and respect for privacy in exchange for being the first to bring dirt to light. Many of those men lived in times when such behavior was acceptable, when beliefs and prejudices were perfectly acceptable or normal, but which we would consider scandalous.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Hah! Just came back to see peoples reactions here of Lincoln's music. Same assholes still pattering.

I hear no WarHorse there and the choir(0:44) is more like from Hook or Lament. The brass playing by CSO is brilliant, last time I heard the same

awesomeness in Gui-Gon's funeral by LSO. And compering this to the Hobbit music is sad, different league. No faggot's choir here.

I agree, different league, Williams shouldn't even bother sending a promo to the academy.

Baffling how these two scores are compared, given that we haven't heard a single second from one, and only trailer snippets from the other.

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

Judging from what I'm reading here and there, this is going to be quite controversial.

Name a recent JW score that hasn't been controversial around here...

[Brónach 1,301]

What's controversial about War Horse or Tintin?

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Watch, The Hobbit will be a disappointment. There's no way it can live up to the original 3 movies. Not a big fan of what looks like Lincoln's main theme but I love the fanfare that comes after it.

[gkgyver 1,645]

It won't.

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

What's controversial about War Horse or Tintin?

To me, nothing. I love both. But the opinions regarding those two scores are very polarizing around here.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

name a sequel that is sepparated 10 years appart from the main saga and is better than the original film(s). NOOOOOOONE that i can remember.

we already have the dwarves designs. even if it's a pure masterpiece and i love it, i will never get over the awful looking dwarves.

high expectations will lead to dissapointment.

The score is going to be great, but its going to have intromissions by older themes, its inevitable. it may even have reprises for no thematical reason, if hollywood gets in the way.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

The score is not going to be great.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

About ya'll shut up until you actually hear the music?

[MSM 126]

You won't even give it a try?

By the way, did Goldsmith really say that about Zimmer in your signature?

I'm sure we'll see it because it will be an event film no doubt, but my interest is low. I never saw any of the LOTR films at the theatre.

JG said that about Zimmer

I asked the same question some time ago, but I thought you said JG was not Jerry Goldsmith...

In some way I had imagined Lincoln's voice differently (more a bass than a tenor - I am not familiar with Daniel Day Lewis).

The Lincoln stereotype is a baritone, but the real Lincoln was known to be a tenor.

Then I am completely convinced, since I like it when they stick to reality with historic movies. But I wondered, are there really any written records as to his voice timbre??

Yes, and his motivations for emancipation were certainly mixed. Although he hated slavery, he didn't believe that blacks were truly equal to whites, and advocated that they be relocated to their supposed native countries after abolition. Most portrayals of Lincoln, and this one I suspect, portray him as a godly figure completely immune to the racism of the day.

Good point. This is what I think was great about the film "Sally Hemings, an American Scandal", which is about Thomas Jefferson and his ambivalent attitude towards slavery. The movie really makes it insightful where his ambiguity comes from; Jefferson's own personal feelings vs. the general sentiments of the people of the period, and the pragmatic way he tried to deal with the situation.

I hope the complexity of these kind of ethical matters will be shown in "Lincoln" as well. But judging from Spielberg's comments it might well be like that.

[Romão 2,274]

I had read before that Licoln's voice was rather hight pitched. Thousands of people must have heard the man speak, so it must be pretty reliable information

[Brónach 1,301]

Watch, The Hobbit will be a disappointment. There's no way it can live up to the original 3 movies.

It's perfectly reasonable to live up to Return of the King and surpass it.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I'm a bit disappointed with what I'm seeing of Daniel Day Lewis. We'll see how it turns out though.

I prefer Lincoln as portrayed in The Hall of Presidents at Disney. Perfect voice and the animatronic isn't creepy-looking as live action portrayals of Lincoln seem to be.

[Jay 37,287]

name a sequel that is sepparated 10 years appart from the main saga and is better than the original film(s). NOOOOOOONE that i can remember.

This isn't a sequel, its an adaptation of another book by the same author that shares a few supporting characters that was already written before the original films' book. This isn't some hollywood screenwriters trying to make up a new story out of nowhere because the original film made money.

[lostinspace 8]

Spielberg is too predictable thesedays... take some risks (like Peter Jackson et al.)

Another point imho:

War horse music is really good. BUT... there is too much. It's like Spielberg or Williams don't have the refined sense of where to place music.

The film didn't do that well. Unsurprisng really as it didn't deserve to do well.

[Trent B 337]

The film looks promising.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Spielberg is too predictable thesedays... take some risks (like Peter Jackson et al.)

What risks has Peter Jackson taken?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Spielberg is too predictable thesedays... take some risks (like Peter Jackson et al.)

Another point imho:

War horse music is really good. BUT... there is too much. It's like Spielberg or Williams don't have the refined sense of where to place music.

The film didn't do that well. Unsurprisng really as it didn't deserve to do well.

I'm sorry but your post is complete bullshit.

really Spielberg and Williams don't know where to place music. The greatest director/composer due in the history of film doesn't know where to place film music.

Seriously you wrote that. OMG how more wrong could you be?

[Faleel 5,340]

TESB.

[Jay 37,287]

I agree that act 1 of War Horse was way overscored

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

War horse music is really good. BUT... there is too much. It's like Spielberg or Williams don't have the refined sense of where to place music.

Williams has been overscoring dramas for over a decade now.

At least it means more great music.

[Henry B 50]

Then I am completely convinced, since I like it when they stick to reality with historic movies. But I wondered, are there really any written records as to his voice timbre??

Yep. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/Ask-an-Expert-What-Did-Abraham-Lincolns-Voice-Sound-Like.html

[Wojo 2,453]

I wasn't too excited about this movie before, but the trailer has me sold. I love Civil War movies. Gettysburg chokes me up from time to time if I'm in the right mood. I will see this on the big screen because I think it's going to be good.

[nightscape94 965]

The 1st act of War Horse was scored as needed in order to establish an emotional attachment between the boy and the horse which would hold through the second half when they are not together. Also, in an overall sense, the music is there to act as the voice for the concept of mutual love and respect between a boy and a horse. Their bond is set musically, and that is how the horse communicates.

I'm really getting into these couple of minutes of Lincoln music. Great sound of the orchestra. It's amazing how the horns sound. Really makes you wish you can go back in time and give the 1970s this recording technology.

[MSM 126]

Then I am completely convinced, since I like it when they stick to reality with historic movies. But I wondered, are there really any written records as to his voice timbre??

Yep. http://www.smithsoni...Sound-Like.html

Wow, interesting.

[A24 4,326]

About ya'll shut up until you actually hear the music?

We've heard the typical noble side of the music, I hope there will be some quirky, playful themes as well, like when that time when Lincoln was hoppity hopping through the grass as a youngster.

[publicist 4,643]

The 1st act of War Horse was scored as needed in order to establish an emotional attachment between the boy and the horse which would hold through the second half when they are not together. Also, in an overall sense, the music is there to act as the voice for the concept of mutual love and respect between a boy and a horse.

Hiring an actor with actual charisma who is more than bland good looks would have been a vastly better idea.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

name a sequel that is sepparated 10 years appart from the main saga and is better than the original film(s). NOOOOOOONE that i can remember.

This isn't a sequel, its an adaptation of another book by the same author that shares a few supporting characters that was already written before the original films' book. This isn't some hollywood screenwriters trying to make up a new story out of nowhere because the original film made money.

They have changed it to the extent that it can be called a prequel.

So this film applies, sorry.

And they are making three films (instead of one as it should be) because the original film made money.

It's a hollywood prequel in every aspect. It just has a literary work to be based on.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Judging from what I'm reading here and there, this is going to be quite controversial.

Name a recent JW score that hasn't been controversial around here...

I was talking about the movie itself.

About the reactions to the score, I'm not commenting.

FYI, film critics have already started to lambast Williams' score from what they heard in the trailer:

Just listening to Day-Lewis' Kentucky-tinged accent as he rails at his advisors that "blood's been spilled to afford us this moment ... now ... now ... now!" and we're ready to queue up for the film's Nov. 9 opening, even if it sounds like Williams' glory-glory-hallelujah score is going to be nudging us in the ribs for two-plus hours.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

i didnt knew gkyver was a film critic...

[KK 3,307]

I find it odd that they kept pointing out Williams in that bit. All based on the music of the trailer alone...

[BTR1701 59]

It's a hollywood prequel in every aspect. It just has a literary work to be based on.

Yep. And the literary work itself is a prequel or prologue.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Brónach 1,301]

The literary work can't be a prequel if LOTR didn't exist yet. And it can't be a prologue if Tolkien didn't have the idea of LOTR (he actually went back and changed some things of The Hobbit later).

[BTR1701 59]

It's a hollywood prequel in every aspect. It just has a literary work to be based on.

Yep. And the literary work itself is a prequel or prologue.

No. Just no.

Yes, it is. I know Lord of the Rings fans have elevated those books to some divine status where none of the regular rules of story-telling and literature apply, but THE HOBBIT perfectly fits the definition of a prequel (or prologue, to use the proper pre-film-era term).

The literary work can't be a prequel if LOTR didn't exist yet. And it can't be a prologue if Tolkien didn't have the idea of LOTR (he actually went back and changed some things of The Hobbit later).

I don't know where you get those ideas. A work's status as a prologue to another work is not dependent on whether the subsequent work was already written or not, nor does it matter whether the author 'had an idea' about the subsequent work. What matters are the works themselves and in this case, THE HOBBIT lays the groundwork for and introduces the RINGS saga.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Koray Savas 2,251]

About ya'll shut up until you actually hear the music?

We've heard the typical noble side of the music, I hope there will be some quirky, playful themes as well, like when that time when Lincoln was hoppity hopping through the grass as a youngster.

They were talking about The Hobbit and how they all know it's going to be disappointing and will not be as good as Lord Of The Rings. That's what I was responding to.

It's a hollywood prequel in every aspect. It just has a literary work to be based on.

Yep. And the literary work itself is a prequel or prologue.

No. Just no.

Yes, it is. I know Lord of the Rings fans have elevated those books to some divine status where none of the regular rules of story-telling and literature apply, but THE HOBBIT perfectly fits the definition of a prequel (or prologue, to use the proper pre-film-era term).

The literary work can't be a prequel if LOTR didn't exist yet. And it can't be a prologue if Tolkien didn't have the idea of LOTR (he actually went back and changed some things of The Hobbit later).

I don't know where you get those ideas. A work's status as a prologue to another work is not dependent on whether the subsequent work was already written or not, nor does it matter whether the author 'had an idea' about the subsequent work. What matters are the works themselves and in this case, THE HOBBIT lays the groundwork for and introduces the RINGS saga.

The Hobbit is a book. The Lord Of The Rings is another book that is set in the same universe with some of the same characters, written after The Hobbit. Prologue or prequel it is not. The term prologue is used to define a segment in a single work. Films have prologues, many books have prologues (epilogues as well). But you don't call The Phantom Menace a prologue and the rest of the Star Wars saga the main part of the story.

[KK 3,307]

I don't know where you get those ideas. A work's status as a prologue to another work is not dependent on whether the subsequent work was already written or not

THE HOBBIT perfectly fits the definition of a prequel (or prologue, to use the proper pre-film-era term).

Huh, dude, definition of a prequel according to Wikipedia:

A prequel is a literary, dramatic, or filmic work whose story precedes that of a previous work, by focusing on events that occur before the original narrative. If Y is a prequel to X, then Y's storyline precedes X's, yet Y is released at a later date than X. Therefore, a prequel is a work that forms part of a back-story to the preceding work.

So, either your definition of a prequel is different to the "official one", or you're wrong, because The Hobbit was written before LOTR, and was in no way intended by Tolkien as an introduction to LOTR when he wrote it.

And despite the changes Tolkien made to the story, it still doesn't act as an introduction to LotR. Sure it introduces the ring by its appearance, but by and large it is an entirely different story set in the same universe with some recurring characters. We only find out the significance of the plot in other Tolkien backstory works.

In no real way does The Hobbit set the groundworks of LotR, nor did it intend to. Sharing the same setting doesn't suddenly pair them up as prequel and sequel.