Lincoln - Theatrical Trailer Discussion

[BTR1701 59]

I don't know where you get those ideas. A work's status as a prologue to another work is not dependent on whether the subsequent work was already written or not

THE HOBBIT perfectly fits the definition of a prequel (or prologue, to use the proper pre-film-era term).

Huh, dude, definition of a prequel according to Wikipedia:

A prequel is a literary, dramatic, or filmic work whose story precedes that of a previous work, by focusing on events that occur before the original narrative. If Y is a prequel to X, then Y's storyline precedes X's, yet Y is released at a later date than X. Therefore, a prequel is a work that forms part of a back-story to the preceding work.

So, either your definition of a prequel is different to the "official one", or you're wrong, because The Hobbit was written before LOTR, and was in no way intended by Tolkien as an introduction to LOTR when he wrote it.

Which is why I used the proper term, prologue. Dude.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,347]

What about a Prelude?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

As far as I know, Tolkien never wrote a symphony.

[Faleel 5,347]

Definition of PRELUDE

1

: an introductory performance, action, or event preceding and preparing for the principal or a more important matter

[KK 3,307]

As far as I know, Tolkien never wrote a symphony.

He totally should have though.

[Faleel 5,347]

It would have been critiqued as boring though.

[Brónach 1,302]

Definition of PRELUDE

1

: an introductory performance, action, or event preceding and preparing for the principal or a more important matter

In that case The Hobbit is not a prelude because it isn't preparing anything. At least the book.

[KK 3,307]

Definition of PRELUDE

1

: an introductory performance, action, or event preceding and preparing for the principal or a more important matter

In that case The Hobbit is not a prelude because it isn't preparing anything. At least the book.

Indeed. The Hobbit and Lotr are considered to be separate entities. The Hobbit doesn't make any attempt to prepare for Frodo's journey in LotR.

It would have been critiqued as boring though.

How about an opera?

[Faleel 5,347]

How about an opera?

see (my) above post

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

OK, guys, once we'll have go through all the words starting with "pr-", can we go back to that Lincoln shit?

How dare you defy the ancient JWFan tradition of completely going off topic!

Oh, and Tolkien wrote an opera, of sorts. Just read the beginning of the Silmarillion.

Good point. And that was certainly not boring

[Faleel 5,347]

Good point. And that was certainly not boring

Buahahahaha!

[Incanus 5,714]

Why does every thread about the Lincoln film soon become a wild discussion on the Hobbit or its music?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Because Lincoln is boring?

[Incanus 5,714]

Oh right of course. Sorry for intruding. I'll go now to the Hobbit thread to discuss about the Hobbit.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

True. I am getting obviously quite senile now. Must be my overflowingly optimistic view on Williams and his music that is rotting my brain with its sugary sweetness.

[Tom 4,654]

Sometimes Williams's writing for chorus veers towards the generic, other times, like the Dark Side Beckons, it is somehow utterly fresh. That snippet of choir 45 seconds in gives me hope that in this case, it is the latter.

[KK 3,307]

True. I am getting obviously quite senile now. Must be my overflowingly optimistic view on Williams and his music that is rotting my brain with its sugary sweetness.

Thats right. Williams is bad for us all! That's what Terry Gilliam has been trying to tell us for years now! We should have listened to him when we had the chance...now its too late!

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Just to put things fuckingly straight.

The hobbit book 1st edition is not a proloque/prequel/prelude to LOTR.

BUT I MEAN THAT THE FILM, WITH ITS DELIBERATE CHANGES TO MATCH THE TRILOGY AND ADDITIONS FROM THE APPENDICES, AND CHRONOLOGICAL MAKING OF DATE, FITS PREFECTLY AND WITHOUT A DOUBT WITH THE DEFINITION OF FILM PREQUEL, and that is what it is.

BTW the hobbit revised edition has been marketed as a prelude to LOTR by some publishers for years...

Now case closed, Move along.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[MSM 126]

Do I really need to read about Hobbits in a thread about Lincoln?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Brónach 1,302]

This shows how exciting the content of the film seems to be.

I hope I'm proven wrong. I hope the guy who wrote Munich and the guy who directed Munich do something interesting.

[MSM 126]

To be honest I am more excited about 'Lincoln' than about anything regarding Hobbits.

[Brónach 1,302]

I've been waiting for The Hobbit for years so even if my excitement is indeed a bit muddled my somewhat indifferent attitude towards Lincoln just can't compare.

[JohnWilliamsFTW 0]

Yes, and his motivations for emancipation were certainly mixed. Although he hated slavery, he didn't believe that blacks were truly equal to whites, and advocated that they be relocated to their supposed native countries after abolition. Most portrayals of Lincoln, and this one I suspect, portray him as a godly figure completely immune to the racism of the day.

I have read the first draft of the script and it had a scene in which he wanted to send the freed slaves back to a colony in Africa, but he was confronted by Frederick Douglass about that. If they kept in the final draft, it would sure as hell be interesting.

[Faleel 5,347]

Yes, and his motivations for emancipation were certainly mixed. Although he hated slavery, he didn't believe that blacks were truly equal to whites, and advocated that they be relocated to their supposed native countries after abolition. Most portrayals of Lincoln, and this one I suspect, portray him as a godly figure completely immune to the racism of the day.

I have read the first draft of the script and it had a scene in which he wanted to send the freed slaves back to a colony in Africa, but he was confronted by Frederick Douglass about that. If they kept in the final draft, it would sure as hell be interesting.

You should have named yourself:

ScriptWriter015

thanks for bringing this back on topic (and for the tidbit) for the moment BTW.

[JohnWilliamsFTW 0]

It's a hollywood prequel in every aspect. It just has a literary work to be based on.

Yep. And the literary work itself is a prequel or prologue.

God damn, it's not a prequel nor a prologue as it was written before LotR! It is a predecessor! It precedes LotR and LotR is a successor since it succeeds The Hobbit!!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Hehehe! I like that member! Welcome to the club! Don't try to be funnier than me, though, or I'll have to kick your ass.

[JohnWilliamsFTW 0]

Hehehe! I like that member! Welcome to the club! Don't try to be funnier than me, though, or I'll have to kick your ass.

Thanks! And haha I'm not kidding about having read the first draft of the script though. I have it saved on my computer right now actually.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Oh, I trust you on that.

[JohnWilliamsFTW 0]

Lincoln First Draft script is here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?u417d7pmh033vzx

If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read. Or if you don't believe me and just want to see some of it, go ahead.

[Brónach 1,302]

So I'm not the only one who goes around reading scripts for films in production.

[JohnWilliamsFTW 0]

So I'm not the only one who goes around reading scripts for films in production.

I've also got Gangster Squad, The Wolf of Wall Street, The 47 Ronin, Ender's Game, 12 Years A Slave, Django Unchained, Elysium, The Master, Pacific Rim, and Looper all of which have not been released yet except The Master.

[Brónach 1,302]

Elysium and Pacific Rim??!! No. I won't. I should resist.

What I've been wondering a lot lately if it would be possible to find some draft of At the Mountains of Madness.

But back to Lincoln. I know Spielberg said it wasn't a battlefield film, but at least I hope it has a battle in it or something, The brief battle in Buster Keaton's The General comes to mind.

[MSM 126]

Lincoln First Draft script is here: http://www.mediafire...u417d7pmh033vzx

If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read. Or if you don't believe me and just want to see some of it, go ahead.

Wow nice

[BloodBoal 7,538]

So I'm not the only one who goes around reading scripts for films in production.

I would, if reading 300 pages on a computer didn't bother me. I downloaded some, but never read them because of that. And I ain't gonna print 300 pages. Ink ain't that cheap around here!

But reading scripts can be quite interesting indeed, especially for films which suffered from several rewrites, or scripts that include a lot of scenes not filmed.

[BTR1701 59]

Lincoln First Draft script is here: http://www.mediafire...u417d7pmh033vzx

If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read. Or if you don't believe me and just want to see some of it, go ahead.

Here's a spoiler: Lincoln dies at the end. And the boat sinks at the end of TITANIC.

[Brónach 1,302]

So I'm not the only one who goes around reading scripts for films in production.

I would, if reading 300 pages on a computer wouldn't bother me. I downloaded some, but never read them because of that. And I ain't gonna print 300 pages. Ink ain't that cheap around here!

But reading scripts can be quite interesting indeed, especially for films which suffered from several rewrites, or scripts that include a lot of scenes not filmed.

Yeah reading on a computer sucks.

[JohnWilliamsFTW 0]

Elysium and Pacific Rim??!! No. I won't. I should resist.

What I've been wondering a lot lately if it would be possible to find some draft of At the Mountains of Madness.

But back to Lincoln. I know Spielberg said it wasn't a battlefield film, but at least I hope it has a battle in it or something, The brief battle in Buster Keaton's The General comes to mind.

I have At the Mountains of Madness written by Guillermo del Toro if you want it. I also have Napoleon which is similar to The General. Napoleon was supposed to be the greatest epic ever directed by Kubrick but the production failed from over budgeting.

[nightscape94 965]

Well the trailer has over a million views. When I first watched it, it was at 302, so the interest is certainly there. I think that the film will have it's saccharine moments, because of the subject matter combined with Spielberg's direction and tendencies, but with who wrote the script and comments I heard from Spielberg during the Google event, has me very motivated to see it.

That, and of course the Williams score. I am really liking what I'm hearing.

[JohnWilliamsFTW 0]

Trust me, even if it is sentimental and saccharine, it won't be out of place for a film like this.

[MSM 126]

Lincoln First Draft script is here: http://www.mediafire...u417d7pmh033vzx

If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read. Or if you don't believe me and just want to see some of it, go ahead.

Here's a spoiler: Lincoln dies at the end.

II dont think the movie will cover this event.

[nightscape94 965]

Lincoln First Draft script is here: http://www.mediafire...u417d7pmh033vzx

If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read. Or if you don't believe me and just want to see some of it, go ahead.

Here's a spoiler: Lincoln dies at the end.

II dont think the movie will cover this event.

I would think that's true as well. It would seem out of place to have a movie focus on the ending of the Civil War and the passing of the 13th Amendment only to see that focus shift at the end with his death. The film and material is not just about the man, but about the process. Showing his assassination would skew that balance slightly.

[JohnWilliamsFTW 0]

Lincoln First Draft script is here: http://www.mediafire...u417d7pmh033vzx

If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read. Or if you don't believe me and just want to see some of it, go ahead.

Here's a spoiler: Lincoln dies at the end.

II dont think the movie will cover this event.

I would think that's true as well. It would seem out of place to have a movie focus on the ending of the Civil War and the passing of the 13th Amendment only to see that focus shift at the end with his death. The film and material is not just about the man, but about the process. Showing his assassination would skew that balance slightly.

I don't wanna spoil anything for you so make sure you don't read the script if you really don't want to know how it ends.

[MSM 126]

Lincoln First Draft script is here: http://www.mediafire...u417d7pmh033vzx

If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read. Or if you don't believe me and just want to see some of it, go ahead.

Here's a spoiler: Lincoln dies at the end.

II dont think the movie will cover this event.

I would think that's true as well. It would seem out of place to have a movie focus on the ending of the Civil War and the passing of the 13th Amendment only to see that focus shift at the end with his death. The film and material is not just about the man, but about the process. Showing his assassination would skew that balance slightly.

I don't wanna spoil anything for you so make sure you don't read the script if you really don't want to know how it ends.

Whatever is in that script, I think the final version doesn;t have the assassination. As nightscape points out, it doesn;t have anything to do with Lincoln's legacy. This movie is about his life and his works, not about his death.

[Henry B 50]

But Lincoln's death is a major part of his legacy. I think most American moviegoers expect to see it depicted. Surely they won't include one of those "years later, so and so went on to..." montages. It's common knowledge. Yet, witholding any mention of Lincoln's death would seem a strange omission.

[JohnWilliamsFTW 0]

God damn it I wish I could comment upon this but having read the entire script, which is one of the best I've ever read, I cannot say how it ends. All I can tell you is, if the ending of the first draft stayed for the ending of the final draft, it's very sentimental and a great ending to the sweeping epic that it is.