Score: Lincoln - Album Review & Complete Score Analysis (John Williams)

[filmmusic 1,823]

So, I'm studying this score these days.

And I have a problem with labeling one theme.

 

What  Incanus here labels as the "Freedom's call" theme, Williams in the prologue of the piano book and in the title of the corresponding theme in the sheet music, he calls it "People's House".

And indeed it appears mostly there and is linked with the 13th amendment (the other label given here).

But, in his full score singnature suite, and in the ost, it's labeled as People's House. Confusing!

 

What Incanus labels as "People's House" theme, appears only once in the film (except the end credits of course) and there it's tracked from a concert arrangement so it doesn't count.

So, i was wondering why Williams would compose another totally unused theme (besides the Elegy) or, for what purpose it was supposed to be used.

Maybe it was an early version of the final People's house (aka Freedom's Call) theme and it was decided that it was too  conspicuous and went for the latter more subdued theme?

 

Anyway, i don't know how to call this theme eventually, since I decided to keep "People's house" for the other theme.

[Faleel 5,340]

4 hours ago, filmmusic said:

What  Incanus here labels as the "Freedom's call" theme, Williams in the prologue of the piano book and in the title of the corresponding theme in the sheet music, he calls it "People's House".

And indeed it appears mostly there and is linked with the 13th amendment (the other label given here).

But, in his full score singnature suite, and in the ost, it's labeled as People's House. Confusing!

So it's called People's House in the Piano Book, Original Sheet Music cue title, signature suite, and OST? but 13th Amendment somewhere else? is that what you are confused about?

[filmmusic 1,823]

3 hours ago, Fal said:

So it's called People's House in the Piano Book, Original Sheet Music cue title, signature suite, and OST? but 13th Amendment somewhere else? is that what you are confused about?

Nope.

 

let's say we have

theme A

Quote

02 The Purpose of the Amendment: 0:55- 1:39 and 2:26-end
09 Father and Son: 0:34-0:52 and 1:08-end
11 Equality Under the Law: 1:37-end
12 Freedom's Call: 3:18-5:29
15 Appomattox, April 9, 1865: 0:24-1:08
16 The Peterson House and Finale: 0:24-1:20 and 6:19-7:39

 

and

Theme B

Quote

01 The People's House: 0:00-2:15 and 3:10-end
16 The Peterson House and Finale: 3:14-4:49

 

Theme A = People's house (Williams in prologue* of piano book and title of original piano sheet. Also fitting label with the theme's narrative function)

Theme B= People's House (Williams in ost, Signature suite and Incanus)

 

So, the confusing part is that Williams has given the same name in 2 different themes.

 

And also, I don't know how to call Theme B (which doesn't appear at all in the film except tracked once), since I chose to call Theme A as People's House.

Also, I was debating with myself that maybe theme B is the original version of Theme A.

 

*

Quote

“The People's House" was composed for scenes that take place in the U.S. Congress, particularly the scene near the end of the film, in which freedpeople enter the House of Representatives to witness the vote on the Thirteenth Amendment. “lt's a more anthemic piece,” Williams says

 

[Jay 37,312]

Maybe it could be considered the B Section of the People's House theme?

[filmmusic 1,823]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Maybe it could be considered the B Section of the People's House theme?

I wouldn't say so.

They never appear together.

[Jay 37,312]

Ah ok.  Interesting, this is interesting.

 

BTW, which scene in the film tracks in the concert arrangement of Theme B?

[filmmusic 1,823]

9 minutes ago, Jay said:

Ah ok.  Interesting, this is interesting.

 

BTW, which scene in the film tracks in the concert arrangement of Theme B?

0.00-0.51 of The Telegraph office (FYC track 9) (it's the same in the film of course).

Interestingly, instead of this Williams had originally used Theme A!

[Jay 37,312]

Oh yea that's right I remember that now. Odd. 

[Incanus 5,713]

I remember debating what to call the more prominent theme which is tied to the 13th amendment and I chose to call it poetically Freedom's Call after Williams' own piece on the album as this suite on the OST does contain a lengthy development of this particular idea.

 

People's House as the suite is named on the OST is a conundrum as the theme does indeed only appear in the telegraph office scene and then in full in the end credits and doesn't have any thematic or narrative function in the scenes involving the House of Representatives or the vote which use both the 13th amendment theme and what I call the American Process in the analysis. So I used the name from the OST in the lack of better alternative as it was Williams' original theme.

[filmmusic 1,823]

If that tracked moment of your People's House theme didn't exist in the film, the theme as we've said appears out of nowhere in the end credits.

i can't think of any other such instance in Williams film scores except for Saving Private Ryan.

Maybe in the end, he did write it only for the end credits..

 

We won't know for sure unless we see the sketch score with all the alternates, and see if this theme is used anywhere else at all in the film score.

[Incanus 5,713]

Well Williams himself said that they recorded over 90 minutes of music of which only about 40 minutes were used in the film. Some of these alternates and suites made it to the album but complete written score would certainly help to clarify the situation. I too think that the People's House material with its not so subtle nod to Copland might be just an independent suite just like the Elegy which doesn't appear anywhere in the film. It also feels like Williams was going for a concept album approach for Lincoln with these suites to better flesh out the listening experience.

[filmmusic 1,823]

another thing, unrelated to our current discussion:

 

i watched the behind the scenes with Williams etc. conducting the score to film, and noticed that the first part of Freedom's call with the solo violin playing With Malice toward none was used for the scene near the end where  Lincoln is leaving for the theater.(williams had a screen in front of him that was playing that scene).

So i guess it was the original version of that cue which was substituted with the trumpet rendition in the end of FYC CD track 17.

[artguy360 1,843]

I've been revisiting this amazing score lately and I really appreciate the detailed analysis as a guide. JW packed so many musical ideas into the score and employs them effortlessly. 

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

One thing led to another and I have been obsessing over politics a lot off late and over the process of democracy so I found myself drawn to this film and the album. And I re-visited the film and heard the album multiple times before and after.

 

And I have the feeling that this is the rare movie where the album does not represent the movie at all. The music is absolutely outstanding - I have now come to see it as a 5 star effort. BUT, it is great music, not a great score. The score is very sparse and rarely pops in the movie save for a few moments. The album as constructed showcases several melodies and themes many of them deeply developed and rendered over multiple minutes as solos or with full orchestral backing. There is no such music to be found in the film. 

 

The album is thus a concept album or an album inspired by the film. It is not the actual score. Which creates an interesting situation. How then are we to judge this as a score? As a score in the movie, I might give it say 3 stars. But the music itself is outstanding. But little of it is used in the film. So what to make of it? What am I listening to when I listen to the album? It is like an album length dissertation by Williams on Americana and an ode to American values and traditions. 

 

Is there any other Williams work with such a massive disconnect between the album and the score?

 

And I guess Williams must have known that the film would have little music. Most of the music sounds very concert-suite-y on the album. 

[SteveMc 2,674]

15 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

One thing led to another and I have been obsessing over politics a lot off late and over the process of democracy so I found myself drawn to this film and the album. And I re-visited the film and heard the album multiple times before and after.

 

And I have the feeling that this is the rare movie where the album does not represent the movie at all. The music is absolutely outstanding - I have now come to see it as a 5 star effort. BUT, it is great music, not a great score. The score is very sparse and rarely pops in the movie save for a few moments. The album as constructed showcases several melodies and themes many of them deeply developed and rendered over multiple minutes as solos or with full orchestral backing. There is no such music to be found in the film. 

 

The album is thus a concept album or an album inspired by the film. It is not the actual score. Which creates an interesting situation. How then are we to judge this as a score? As a score in the movie, I might give it say 3 stars. But the music itself is outstanding. But little of it is used in the film. So what to make of it? What am I listening to when I listen to the album? It is like an album length dissertation by Williams on Americana and an ode to American values and traditions. 

 

Is there any other Williams work with such a massive disconnect between the album and the score?

 

And I guess Williams must have known that the film would have little music. Most of the music sounds very concert-suite-y on the album. 

 

The answer is simple:  judge music first as music, and second as part of the dramatic structure that occasioned its writing.

 

[Incanus 5,713]

On 8/13/2018 at 9:36 AM, TheUlyssesian said:

Is there any other Williams work with such a massive disconnect between the album and the score?

Williams has done a few of these more concept album type soundtrack releases in the past. Actually E.T. is a great example of where the OST is mostly full of either alternates or written purely for the album material. Munich also features a good portion of the more melodic material that is clearly been conceived purely for the soundtrack album. 

 

As you say the Lincoln soundtrack feels more like a concept album based on the thematic ideas found in the film itself.

 

JW has always been quite particular when it comes to presenting his music on disc and I guess he saw here an opportunity to musically say more on the album on the subject matter than what ended up in the film.

 

And also once in a while Williams seems to find particular inspiration in certain films he scores which is usually reflected in the subsequent series of concert arrangements based on their music, e.g. Memoirs of a Geisha, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone and Lincoln.