Faleel 5,339 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I was listening to TPM a while back and I noticed something, a motif that popped up quite a bit, and I wondered what it was, then I realized its Darth Maul's Motif! [media=] at 4:30 I believe it is DM's motif, because it also appears in "The Sith Spacecraft" and other places with Maul in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Yes, we've known this since 1999.Have you discovered the dark side theme in Empire yet? karelm and Wojo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Too bad it died with Darth Maul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score_Fan 36 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Yeah this is really old news. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Yes Faleel this is very old news but I am glad you are still making discoveries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofDestiny 71 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 There is a Dark Side theme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The interesting thing (it may have been said again, i don't know), is that this motif is almost similar to the 2nd phrase of the Emperor theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 There is a Dark Side theme?yep.And in the prequels there is a 'sith plotting motif'EPII: when dooku arrives to coruscant, just after the choir a string dark motif appears. ends with the emperor's theme. Pobably the female choir aftwerwards is the same theme.EPIII: same motif is revisited when darth sidious tells anakin to kill the jedi and go to mustafar (after the emperor's theme)EPI: it does not appear but i think it may be based on the fanfare that is used when Maul and Palpatine speak in the balcony of coruscant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I hear there was some kind of march for the empire ... where can I find that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The interesting thing (it may have been said again, i don't know), is that this motif is almost similar to the 2nd phrase of the Emperor theme.How can something be "almost similar"? (Yes, I'm being pedantic!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Yes, we've known this since 1999.Have you discovered the dark side theme in Empire yet?Another example of our Moderators condescending nature regarding some posters. CapitalJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 The interesting thing (it may have been said again, i don't know), is that this motif is almost similar to the 2nd phrase of the Emperor theme.How can something be "almost similar"? (Yes, I'm being pedantic!)English is not my native language and maybe I made a mistake.Can't we use "almost similar" for something that resembles something else but it's not identical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 The interesting thing (it may have been said again, i don't know), is that this motif is almost similar to the 2nd phrase of the Emperor theme.How can something be "almost similar"? (Yes, I'm being pedantic!)English is not my native language and maybe I made a mistake.Can't we use "almost similar" for something that resembles something else but it's not identical?I understand what you want to say... but maybe:"something that resembles something else but it's not identical" = similarso almost similar would meant the resemblance is less...But also english is not my native language...and i think you can use "almost similar" in spanish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 oh, ok.. thanks..I thought that "similar" leaned more to "identical", that's why I put "almost" in front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,339 Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 So, I was listening to TPM just now and was wondering, are the three notes at 4:20 in the video above part of the pitches that make up Darth Maul's motif?Also are those the same notes at 2:30 (in this video) of Qui-Gon's noble end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,903 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 So, I was listening to TPM just now and was wondering, are the three notes at 4:20 in the video above part of the pitches that make up Darth Maul's motif?Also are those the same notes at 2:30 (in this video) of Qui-Gon's noble end?Not the exact same notes but very similar phrase. 4:20 of Darth Maul motif is G, A flat, F. 2:30 of Qui-Gon's noble end is G, F#, E. Both start on G. The first one goes up a half step. The second one goes down a half step. Similar rhythm. I would say one motif is a development/augmentation of the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 They're inversions of the same (013) set (3-2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 That fanfare in Qui-Gon's Noble End = 0:31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 ^Is that the same as 0:28-0:38? Which is the same as 4:48? Which is the same as 6:02? Am I going overboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,339 Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 The top two are the same IMHO, the bottom one is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I always thought those two were motifs for Tatooine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 ^Is that the same as 0:28-0:38? Which is the same as 4:48? Which is the same as 6:02? Am I going overboard?The top two are different, while the bottom one is almost identical to the TPM bit, but that similarity is just coincidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stravinsky 203 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 On 11/14/2012 at 11:08 PM, Jay said: Yes, we've known this since 1999. Have you discovered the dark side theme in Empire yet? I'm fascinated because this is news to me. I didn't know of this Darth Maul motif. I hadn't noticed it! I haven't paid as much attention to the prequel scores as to those from the original trilogy (I'm obsessed about them) and here I find further evidence of Williams genius for writing cyphers which lie under the radar despite repeated listening. I would be interested to know where else this Darth Maul motif appears in the score... However what really excites me is the thought there might be yet another hidden "Dark Side" theme in Empire that I haven't noticed despite having listened to this score many many hundreds of times since I was a kid. Oh please tell me where it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Dark Side Motif1-09 Han Solo and the Princess 3:06-3:261-11 The Magic Tree 3:56-4:052-10 Clash of Lightsabers 0:07-0:412-11 Rescue from Cloud City 0:28-0:47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,339 Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Yes, we've known this since 1999.Have you discovered the dark side theme in Empire yet?[/quoteI'm fascinated because this is news to me. I didn't know of this Darth Maul motif. I hadn't noticed it! I haven't paid as much attention to the prequel scores as to those from the original trilogy (I'm obsessed about them) and here I find further evidence of Williams genius for writing cyphers which lie under the radar despite repeated listening. I would be interested to know where else this Darth Maul motif appears in the score...However what really excites me is the thought there might be yet another hidden "Dark Side" theme in Empire that I haven't noticed despite having listened to this score many many hundreds of times since I was a kid. Oh please tell me where it is!You can also hear it in Darth Sidious and Darth Maul and Darth Maul and the Sith SpacecraftThey're inversions of the same (013) set (3-2).What about 0:14 of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stravinsky 203 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I've just listened to all those snippets. Thank you very much! Of course I'm familiar with this Scotch Snap idea (because I've heard it probably thousands of times) I just didn't link it up subconsciously with the others. However I must say I'm sure I've heard Williams utilise this same falling major second/scotch snap rhythmic idea before in other scores but I can't think which. I must say I'm finding it difficult to hear how the last snippet (Rescue from Cloud City) bears any similarity to the first three clips. It doesn't appear to contain this rhythmic falling device I mention...or am I concentrating in completely the wrong thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Eh, I am probably wrong about that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Amazing what Williams can do with a few notes. God, I love that man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,339 Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 On 5/8/2015 at 7:10 PM, BloodBoal said: On 5/8/2015 at 0:32 AM, Jay said: Dark Side Motif 1-11 The Magic Tree 3:56-4:05 Is it my imagination or is that related to the brass fanfare in Yoda and the Force at 3:01-3:08? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Darth Maul's motif is so good. I love how many leitmotifs were intricately woven into TPM's score. I feel JW did a similar thing with similar freshness in TFA. Did Dooku have any kind of motif in AOTC? There is that dark, low brass motif that I think was more for the separatist or a mystery motif. But I can't recall anything for Dooku himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stravinsky 203 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Concerning the "Dark Side" motif again. It appears... 1-09 Han Solo and the Princess 3:06-3:26 1-11 The Magic Tree 3:56-4:05 2-10 Clash of Lightsabers 0:07-0:41 Also I'm chuffed as I've spotted it again at the very close of the short cue "Imperial Starfleet Deployed". At exactly 1:00 we hear a solo Clarinet play the fragment with undulating harps. Can anyone tell me where the statements of this Darth Maul motif are in which cues from the TPM score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 On 1/27/2016 at 6:39 PM, stravinsky said: At exactly 1:00 we hear a solo Clarinet play the fragment with undulating harps. I don't think that's the same theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stravinsky 203 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Yes perhaps you are right. However harmonically it is the same as the other statements of this very brief motif (it is comprised only of two notes in a scotch snap rhythm). I think Williams dispenses with the scotch snap in this instance and it just plays straight on Clarinet. This moment was dialled out in the movie and the motif comes just as Leia switches off C-3PO in the cockpit of the Falcon when he's about to say "The Empire may be gracious enough to..." and then she shuts him down. The clarinet statement co-incides with Threepio uttering the word "Empire". I am sure this is a statement of this motif. But I may be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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