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An Unexpected Journey SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread

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PJ resisted showing Sauron in LOTR as anything but the Eye (apart from the prologue)

Will he succumb to the temptation of showing him fully here?

I mean Cumberbatch actually recieved a credit in this film as the Necromancer

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Yeah that was mentioned by someone before. I had to google that reference though as I had no idea who Slenderman is.

I hope they keep Sauron in the shadows also in the sequel films. Revealing his true form would be Lucas style explanation of the Force, where they would strip the character all terror and mystery in their need to explain things. I trust PJ to be savvy on this matter.

He'll have a giant flaming eye ball confronting the wizards. :P

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Now that we saw a shadowy glimpse of the Necromancer it lead me to wonder what kind of battle will there be between him and the White Council in the next film. I hope Jackson treads carefully because it could deteriorate into a second rate spell flinging contest.

And I always thought Dol Guldur would be crawling with Sauron's servants but it was just an abandoned fortress where anyone could walk in. Works for the hiding Enemy of the film's plot very well though.

The scene was awful in my opinion. I always imagined Dol Goldur as abandoned as well, and I thought the scene was well handled.until the Witch King comes out of nowhere like one of the ghosts from Casper and starts attacking Radagast, only to become a Morgul blade! That was when the film really started to cross the eerie line of serious fan-fiction. It didn't help to hear all the Nazgul tomb stuff in the White Council scene.

And then Radagast's perception of the Necromancer looked like anything but Tolkien and LotR.

I hope we see no more of Sauron, other than darkness and shadow.

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Now that we saw a shadowy glimpse of the Necromancer it lead me to wonder what kind of battle will there be between him and the White Council in the next film. I hope Jackson treads carefully because it could deteriorate into a second rate spell flinging contest.

And I always thought Dol Guldur would be crawling with Sauron's servants but it was just an abandoned fortress where anyone could walk in. Works for the hiding Enemy of the film's plot very well though.

I actually always imagined Dol Guldur as quite abandoned,with only Sauron really dwelling there. So that part of the film was a pretty good match for me.

What I do wonder is how Gandalf came by the key in the film version, as apparently the discovery that anyone has set up camp in Dol Guldur is a new one.

PJ resisted showing Sauron in LOTR as anything but the Eye (apart from the prologue)

Will he succumb to the temptation of showing him fully here?

I mean Cumberbatch actually recieved a credit in this film as the Necromancer

Are you sure that PJ resisted in LOTR? I've always suspected that it was Walsh and Boyens who resisted him. After all, Sauron was originally coming out to fight Aragorn at the final battle.

I was happy with the way they portrayed him in Hobbit, since from the wizards' reports in the books, they must have seen him something of him at some point during this stage and he should have looked pretty much like this. I just hope he doesn't become too active in the next two films. After all, his plan has always been to prepare Mordor for his return, and I don't think he really put up an actual fight, but simply fled when it was clear the council was coming for him, probably without them every getting close to him.

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Now that we saw a shadowy glimpse of the Necromancer it lead me to wonder what kind of battle will there be between him and the White Council in the next film. I hope Jackson treads carefully because it could deteriorate into a second rate spell flinging contest.

And I always thought Dol Guldur would be crawling with Sauron's servants but it was just an abandoned fortress where anyone could walk in. Works for the hiding Enemy of the film's plot very well though.

The scene was awful in my opinion. The whole mystery concept was fine, and I liked the set and all...until the Witch King comes out of nowhere in like on of the ghosts from Casper and starts attacking Radagast, only to become a freakin' Morgul blade!

That was a puzzling way of giving the Wise hint of Sauron's appearance in Middle Earth.

Now that we saw a shadowy glimpse of the Necromancer it lead me to wonder what kind of battle will there be between him and the White Council in the next film. I hope Jackson treads carefully because it could deteriorate into a second rate spell flinging contest.

And I always thought Dol Guldur would be crawling with Sauron's servants but it was just an abandoned fortress where anyone could walk in. Works for the hiding Enemy of the film's plot very well though.

I actually always imagined Dol Guldur as quite abandoned,with only Sauron really dwelling there. So that part of the film was a pretty good match for me.

What I do wonder is how Gandalf came by the key in the film version, as apparently the discovery that anyone has set up camp in Dol Guldur is a new one.

Yes Gandalf's visit to Dol Guldur was glossed over in the film without a word. I wonder if the film makers will return to this subject in the sequels, perhaps in the form of another flashback. Or perhaps it is in the EE version of the first film. It was shot after all. Or something that looks like a ragged Dwarf attacks Gandalf in the trailer of the first film.

Actually Dol Guldur had a significant army since Khamûl lead an attack from there to Lorien during the War of the Ring. Sauron would certainly not dwell there alone without servants and a host to protect him.

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Oh I was perfectly happy with how he was portrayed, but like I said. Is PJ gonna resist the urge of showing too much of him.

I mean this film is supposed to be about Smaug, right?

And Marian, tomatoes at Bag End? Did you cringe?

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Now that we saw a shadowy glimpse of the Necromancer it lead me to wonder what kind of battle will there be between him and the White Council in the next film. I hope Jackson treads carefully because it could deteriorate into a second rate spell flinging contest.

And I always thought Dol Guldur would be crawling with Sauron's servants but it was just an abandoned fortress where anyone could walk in. Works for the hiding Enemy of the film's plot very well though.

I actually always imagined Dol Guldur as quite abandoned,with only Sauron really dwelling there. So that part of the film was a pretty good match for me.

What I do wonder is how Gandalf came by the key in the film version, as apparently the discovery that anyone has set up camp in Dol Guldur is a new one.

Hmm good point, considering we've seen shots of Gandalf attacked by what looks like an imprisoned Thrain in the teaser.

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That's what I said!

Will probably pop up in the 2nd film somewhere.

Actually Dol Guldur had a significant army since Khamûl lead an attack from there to Lorien during the War of the Ring. Sauron would certainly not dwell there alone without servants and a host to protect him.

Yes, but I assumed that to remain conspicuous, he would not have had such an army there until after the White Council attack.

Speaking of the attack, in the book, wasn't the White Council too late as Sauron had already fled? Will that also be the case here? Will we see the Ringwraiths defending the fortress?

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I mean this film is supposed to be about Smaug, right?

It would not shock me if Peter decides Smaug and the Sauronmancer can be rolled into one character.

He's already hired the same actor for both!

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Didn't we see Gandalf at Dol Guldur in the teaser?

If that got edited out in the movie, and Radagast took over that role...

Where the hell did Gandalf go in the movie?

The first time he was missing, he didn't go very far. The second time... he certainly took his time, but I can't see him really going anywhere. Unless they completely disregard the geography, it just doesn't make sense for him to go to Dol Guldur before crossing the Misty Mountains.

And Marian, tomatoes at Bag End? Did you cringe?

Didn't notice that. But it's established that hobbits have tomatoes in PJ's universe anyway. ;)

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Radagast did not take over that role, you silly vegetable. Gandalf's visiting Dol Guldur happens when he meets Thrain and (normally) gets the key and the map at that moment. This has nothing to do with Radgy's Ghostbusters rip-off.

My guess is that it will be shown as the prologue of the second film.

Then what was Thrain doing there, all alone, in Dol Guldur? How did he end up there with no Necromancer yet?

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Radagast did not take over that role, you silly vegetable. Gandalf's visiting Dol Guldur happens when he meets Thrain and (normally) gets the key and the map at that moment. This has nothing to do with Radgy's Ghostbusters rip-off.

My guess is that it will be shown as the prologue of the second film.

Then what was Thrain doing there, all alone, in Dol Guldur? How did he end up there with no Necromancer yet?

.

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Maybe Gandalf just felt there was something fishy was going on there. When Radagast mentioned Dol Goldur, Gandalf already had that same suspicious look he had when he was thinking on the Ring in FotR. The Necromancer was there. Thrain was being held prisoner there, In the book, he was tortured to get his Ring of Power I believe. In the film, the intentions will probably be different. And Azog did make a reference to Thrain at the end, so it's likely he's already did at this point.

And does BloodBoal already know the whole plot of the film?

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Argh...I was hoping all those rumours you shared about Azog being resurrected and Orc shamans running adrift were just rumours.

But having seen the film, I'm worried if all these would come to fruition in the remaining films.

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The thing is, if they take the name "Necromancer" literally, and they make Sauron be able to bring back people from the dead, then it creates a huge plot point for the rest of the saga: why don't Sauron just resurrect his Orcs every time they are killed in battle?

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The thing is, if they take the name "Necromancer" literally, and they make Sauron be able to bring back people from the dead, then it creates a huge plot point for the rest of the saga: why don't Sauron just resurrect his Orcs every time they are killed in battle?

Magic drains...uh...magic juice. Which is limited.

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The thing is, if they take the name "Necromancer" literally, and they make Sauron be able to bring back people from the dead, then it creates a huge plot point for the rest of the saga: why don't Sauron just resurrect his Orcs every time they are killed in battle?

The title was never meant to be taken literally, but they made it clear in the Hobbit that's the way they'll go, considering that's how they extensively described him.

If that's the case, why doesn't Sauron just resurrect all the Balrogs from Morgoth's age? Who said he needed the One Ring at all?

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Dol Guldur was actually more than just an abandoned fastness where Sauron remained hidden for nearly 2000 years. Silmarillion certainly indicates that it was a fortress and evil creatures were drawn there by Sauron's will as much as he had slowly corrupted the forest around his dwelling. It is true he emptied the fortress in his feint when the White Council attacked and he appeared to flee, when he really just moved to Mordor. And there was an actual attack on Dol Guldur by the White Council.

Tolkien writes in the Tale of Years in the Appendices that Sauron sent 3 of the Nazgûl to re-occupy Dol Guldur later, when the vigilance of the White Council was laxed again. Certainly they just re-armed and regrouped their Mirkwood forces, which I guess were driven into hiding when the White Council came to further mislead them to think that the Enemy had been driven fully out and the forest purged.

And I certainly hope that they make mention of Gandalf's prior visit to Dol Guldur as it is an important detail when the Dwarven map and key are concerned. But it is a bit difficult situation as Gandalf found out that Necromancer was Sauron on his second visit when he discovered Thráin and the got those items from him and in the film he is still finding things out and oblivious to the identity of the sorcerer in Dol Guldur.

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I wonder if the "The Edge of the Wild" scores an extended scene. Maybe something to do with the Nazgul tombs (based on the Witch-King motif). It's probably a demo for one of the scenes that got cut.

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And I certainly hope that they make mention of Gandalf's prior visit to Dol Guldur as it is an important detail when the Dwarven map and key are concerned. But it is a bit difficult situation as Gandalf found out that Necromancer was Sauron on his second visit when he discovered Thráin and the got those items from him and in the film he is still finding things out and oblivious to the identity of the sorcerer in Dol Guldur.

I'm telling you, you're forgetting the Bolg factor!

Curse and blast that Bolg then! PJ really wrecked the history on this one!

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I really loved the prologue. Fantastic cinematography and digital effects.

I love the design in that sequence, of both Dale and Erebor. There is slightly surreal edge to the Dwarven architecture in its myriad details and gargantuan size but it was executed wonderfully and I loved the multi layered halls of the Lonely Mountain.

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I really loved the prologue. Fantastic cinematography and digital effects.

I love the design in that sequence, of both Dale and Erebor. There is slightly surreal edge to the Dwarven architecture in its myriad details and gargantuan size but it was executed wonderfully and I loved the multi layered halls of the Lonely Mountain.

Yes, surreal... That's what made it wonderful.

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I really loved the prologue. Fantastic cinematography and digital effects.

I love the design in that sequence, of both Dale and Erebor. There is slightly surreal edge to the Dwarven architecture in its myriad details and gargantuan size but it was executed wonderfully and I loved the multi layered halls of the Lonely Mountain.

I wasn't too much of a fan. Looked a bit video-game-ish and less like Tolkien or Middle-Earth. The giant dwarven statues come in excess, diminishing the usual majesty of Middle-Earth and border-lining the nature of more typical fantasy concepts. I prefer the not so over-the-top designs of Dwarrowdelf. And I don't like the softness of the footage.

As I said before, the prologue doesn't successfully draw me back into the Middle-Earth I love so much.

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I really loved the prologue. Fantastic cinematography and digital effects.

I love the design in that sequence, of both Dale and Erebor. There is slightly surreal edge to the Dwarven architecture in its myriad details and gargantuan size but it was executed wonderfully and I loved the multi layered halls of the Lonely Mountain.

I wasn't too much of a fan. Looked a bit video-game-ish and less Tolkien and Middle-Earth. The giant dwarven statues come in excess, diminishing the typical majesty of Middle-Earth and border-lining the nature of more typical fantasy concepts. I prefer the less over-the-top designs of Dwarrowdelf. And I don't like the softness of the footage.

As I said before, the prologue doesn't successfully draw me back into the Middle-Earth I love so much.

My reaction was complete opposite. It was like coming back home and the Dwarven world, I felt, was well established with perhaps grand and big designs but all for the depiction of magnificence and richness of this particular realm and the great works of this race.

At that time he would already be trying to delay the Council. And was trying to find out if the One Ring was indeed destroyed.

Saruman was already searching for the One Ring from the Vale of Anduin and the Gladden Fields. He would agree to the attack on Dol Guldur to dispose of Sauron as a rival in the search along the Great River.

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Dol Guldur was actually more than just an abandoned fastness where Sauron remained hidden for nearly 2000 years. Silmarillion certainly indicates that it was a fortress and evil creatures were drawn there by Sauron's will as much as he had slowly corrupted the forest around his dwelling. It is true he emptied the fortress in his feint when the White Council attacked and he appeared to flee, when he really just moved to Mordor. And there was an actual attack on Dol Guldur by the White Council.

Tolkien writes in the Tale of Years in the Appendices that Sauron sent 3 of the Nazgûl to re-occupy Dol Guldur later, when the vigilance of the White Council was laxed again. Certainly they just re-armed and regrouped their Mirkwood forces, which I guess were driven into hiding when the White Council came to further mislead them to think that the Enemy had been driven fully out and the forest purged.

And I certainly hope that they make mention of Gandalf's prior visit to Dol Guldur as it is an important detail when the Dwarven map and key are concerned. But it is a bit difficult situation as Gandalf found out that Necromancer was Sauron on his second visit when he discovered Thráin and the got those items from him and in the film he is still finding things out and oblivious to the identity of the sorcerer in Dol Guldur.

Is this how you talk to pals and family at social functions? :P

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At that time he would already be trying to delay the Council. And was trying to find out if the One Ring was indeed destroyed.

Saruman was already searching for the One Ring from the Vale of Anduin and the Gladden Fields. He would agree to the attack on Dol Guldur to dispose of Sauron as a rival in the search along the Great River.

The thing is, Jackson already made Saruman out to be a more 2-dimensional villain it LotR than Tolkien intended him to be. In Tolkien's work, Saruman never really Sauron but he served himself, ardently searching for the ring for his own personal desire for power. In the films, he really is a more loyal servant to Sauron, so he'd be putting out all his efforts to serve him. And I believe Jackson's vision has it so that Saruman was corrupted only briefly before the events of the LotR films, making him an actual innocent wizard in the Hobbit.

I certainly prefer Tolkien's more complex portrayal of the character, but I doubt he has yet been corrupted in Jackson's Hobbit films.

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So does anyone know what odds bookies are giving on Jackson showing Gandalf (minus Aragorn) tracking down Gollum and leaving him under guard (and ESCAPING!) in the third movie? What with the little scamp being such a popular part of the franchise an all ;)

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I think that is a bit too prolonged side story to portray in the Hobbit films. Very slim chances. Besides we already have the fan film made out of that. ;)

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