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An Unexpected Journey SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread

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I just came back from my second viewing of The Hobbit: AUJ

I had mixed feelings about my first viewing.

First of all this film had a lot to live up too. Even though I never expected it to be as good as FOTR, I did really want it to be good, to involve me, to immerse me again in PJ's version of Tolkien's world. To move me.

At my first viewing, I liked it. Parts of it I liked a lot. But I never felt like I was drawn back in, immersed like I was in 2001, 2002 and 2003.

It was weird seeing this film, many of the same actors, but slightly older, slightly different. Familiar, yet somehow now.

Also the 3D and especially the HFR distracted from the experience. Instead of being immersed, it put a buffer between me and the film. I was watching, not feeling.

Today I watched it in 2D, standard frame rate. And the dreaded weight of anticipation was lifted from it's shoulders.

I enjoyed it sooo much better then before. I felt like I was back. It was the Middle Earth I knew and loved.

It's far from a perfect film, there are many things you can complain about. (much of BB's enormous review I agree with)

But tonight it made me feel happy. It made me feel young again.

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To be honest, my first viewing of the film was so distracted by the use of the music that I barely paid attention to the film itself anymore, I was just like "WTF?" every ten minutes.

Blending that out the second time really helped a lot to make it more enjoyable.

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My second viewing was a lot better than my first. I still wasn't quite back to the Middle-Earth I loved, but I did enjoy the film a lot more.

For instance, as much as I dislike the first warg attack scene, I couldn't help but actually enjoy the beautifully shot New Zealand vistas with Jackson's usual swooping camera shots.

But in the end, my mind always falls back to its cons, of which it has many.

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I maintain that the movie would feel tons better if they just replaced sets and backdrops with real landscapes, and some CGI with models. That is literally all it would take. Like make Azog a costume and not artificial.

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They should have made Azog like Lurtz. Lurtz was both menacing and believable, Azog was not.

And miniatures, models and sets would have helped, but I guess The Hobbit was aiming for a more heightened sense of fantasy. Regardless, its those old-fashioned grounded elements that made LotR such a marvel in film-making. Bringing all those various facets together is far more difficult than the CGI-ridden features of today's films.

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(yet another regurgitation of my same opinions)

They should have made Azog like Lurtz. Lurtz was both menacing and believable, Azog was not.

azog5.jpg

lurtz%2Breadies%2Barrow2.JPG

Lurtz was much more awesome due to several clear reasons. For a start, he looked scarier, had an awesome fight with Aragorn and he killed Boromir, with his company taking away the hobbits (in a sequence directed masterfully). The way he was written in, he had an impact in the film. Also he served as someone for Saruman to talk to and be Saruman. In addition, Lurtz didn't have a funny face in slow motion, and he didn't got scenes interrupting the story where he basically spoke the typical villain revenge speech that nobody gives a flying fuck about.

The impact of Azog in The Hobbit is that Dwarven history got rewritten and made less intense, Bilbo killed an orc (????) and won Thorin's trust way too early. This whole story about the company needed to be chased for some abstract nonsensical reason is bollocks.

I maintain that the movie would feel tons better if they just replaced sets and backdrops with real landscapes, and some CGI with models. That is literally all it would take. Like make Azog a costume and not artificial.

That for a start. Then avoid crappy colour grading and get yourself a better script. Also some of the make up work could do with being a little less fake. Techically, these people have a budget of dozens of millions, one would think they could do that.

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You should have listened to me Stefan and saved yourself the initial disappointment (and a few quid).

They should have made Azog like Lurtz. Lurtz was both menacing and believable, Azog was not.

What? Azog doesn't look fake or "unbelievable". He just looks strange to your brain. Don't worry, it's natural to question what we haven't seen before. You're just dealing with Azog in the only way you know how - your brain knows he isn't real because orcs don't exist, you factually know he isn't a man in a mask; therefore he must be computer generated. That's all it is.

I was actually very impressed with the look of Azog in this film. He was far less showy than Gollum and has far less to work with, but he wasn't without his own nuances of expression if watch closely enough.

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You should have listened to me Stefan and saved yourself the initial disappointment (and a few quid).

Non, je ne regrette rien, Lee!

Its a new and interesting technology and i wanted to see if it worked for me.

Go out of your comfort zone a little bit, my dear lad. ;)

I was actually very impressed with the look of Azog in this film. He was far less showy than Gollum and has far less to work with, but he wasn't without his own nuances of expression if watch closely enough.

Yes he was a very well executed character. Like Barry Humphries Goblin King.

Gives hope Smaug will be great.

Seeing the film again, they really worked on Gollum. Every shot is perfect.

His eyes look breathtaking.

I honestly would not mind if PJ went back and redid Gollum in LOTR with this quality of rendering.

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I dont know if this was confirmed, but in the film is does look like one of the Bunnies talks.

Its either clumsy and mistimed ADR with Radagast talking in a slightly higher pitched voice. Or its one of the Bunnies saying "quick, quick, quick".

Since no LOTR animal has spoken, it would seem weird though.

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It's very much Radagast's voice in an urgent tone. It all flows with him panicking.

No, it's not as obvious as you make it seem.

I was sceptical when you first reported on this. But i payed special attention to it as the scene was coming up. And it's at the very least unclear.

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Stefancos the Scarlett: "Do not speak to me of Bloodball, he is a foolish fellow."

Incanus The Violet Tinted: "He's odd, I do not doubt, but--"

Stefancos the Scarlett: "It's not that! It's his obsessive consumption of mushrooms! "

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Stefancos the Scarlett: "Do not speak to me of Bloodball, he is a foolish fellow."

Incanus The Violet Tinted: "He's odd, I do not doubt, but--"

Stefancos the Scarlett: "It's not that! It's his obsessive consumption of mushrooms! "

Felt so bizarrely out of place in film.

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I still love the film that the supposedly very powefull White Council spend time arguing the matter of the Quest of Erebor. If they will allow it. and Thorin and company just fuck off....

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I didn't even understand the point of that. Why would Saruman give a fuck about the Dwarves trying to reclaim their kingdom?

Not only is it a weird and pointless addition, but it's also about as well communicated as Titanic's SOS appeals.

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I didn't even understand the point of that. Why would Saruman give a fuck about the Dwarves trying to reclaim their kingdom?

Because he is apparently portrayed as being already in cahoots with Sauron, and them reclaiming Erebor and killing Smaug gives Sauron obviously a weapon less and an enemy more.

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So after initial concern the film would look to artificial, with overdone colourgrading etc.... And that it would look and feel different visually to the LOTR films, i have to say that in 2D, 24fps the film looks close enough like the previous ones. For the most part the colors seemed bright, but natural. A marked improvement over ROTK.

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It's very much Radagast's voice in an urgent tone. It all flows with him panicking.

No, it's not as obvious as you make it seem.

I was sceptical when you first reported on this. But i payed special attention to it as the scene was coming up. And it's at the very least unclear.

you didn't watch it dubbed, did you?

I payed special attention too and I thought it was very, very clear that it was radgy.

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On my third viewing it seemed clear that it was Radagast.

Dubbed? God no. Dubbing is evil.

Its bad enough they use the dutch translations of some of the names and places in the subtitles.

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Why do you think it's bad? In my opinion, if they translate the dialogue, why not the translate the names as well? It feels rather weird to watch a film with native subtitles and then see English names between them.

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I believe Tolkien left instructions about what names had to be translated and how and what names didn't have to.

As for any other film, the names of the characters are the names of the characters. You'd need to translate nicknames and stuff like that.

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I believe Tolkien left instructions about what names had to be translated and how and that names didn't have to.

I believe Tolkien expressed disapproval with the original Dutch translation of LOTR.

No idea if that applies to The Hobbit though.

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