Is Close Encounters Of The Third Kind the greatest John Williams score of all time..?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And The Patriot

[Incanus 5,714]

I have not actually heard the original OST version of the score since the only version available has been the Arista Collector's Edition, which is a great presentation of the score.

[Wojo 2,453]

I have the original LP, which is almost ruined by zillions repeats. Now it is the CE.

The CE is too long.

[Brónach 1,302]

The CE is too short. I'd like a a bit more of a complete score for this masterful achievement.

[Incanus 5,714]

I have the original LP, which is almost ruined by zillions repeats. Now it is the CE.

The CE is too long.

Poppycock and boulderdash!

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I have the original LP, which is almost ruined by zillions repeats. Now it is the CE.

The CE is too long.

I've never had or heard the original album. As a full score, the CE is great. For a more condensed version, the 20 minute suite as recorded by Gerhardt works perfectly. The shorter suite leaves out too much of the more dissonant material and thus doesn't really do the score justice.

[Jonesy 55]

The CE is too short. I'd like a a bit more of a complete score for this masterful achievement.

Inside the Mothership is one of those masterful achievements.

[Datameister 2,042]

This is one of those scores that I really ought to love a hell of a lot more than I actually do. I can't figure out why it doesn't resonate more strongly with me. But regardless, this is definitely not my favorite Williams score, or even in my top 5 or anything like that.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

My first CD was Songs from the Big Chair by Tears for Fears, my next purchase was Star Wars and Close Encounters of the Third Kind on cd, all at the end of 1985. I still have them, all three are on my Nano. I did not record any other version of Close Encounters complete album. I still like the original presentation best. For me it's near perfection. Now I do have several JW compilations downloaded and there are several end titles from Close Encounters.

Pefection is the original Close Encounters of the Third Kind trailer.

[Jay 37,359]

This is one of those scores that I really ought to love a hell of a lot more than I actually do. I can't figure out why it doesn't resonate more strongly with me. But regardless, this is definitely not my favorite Williams score, or even in my top 5 or anything like that.

Ditto

[Brónach 1,302]

Bah!

[Jay 37,359]

I don't dislike the score, its just not one of my 10 or 15 favorites. It's still a terrific accomplishment by a composer in his ultimate prime

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I have the original LP, which is almost ruined by zillions repeats. Now it is the CE.

The CE is too long.

I've never had or heard the original album. As a full score, the CE is great. For a more condensed version, the 20 minute suite as recorded by Gerhardt works perfectly. The shorter suite leaves out too much of the more dissonant material and thus doesn't really do the score justice.

The Gerhardt Suite is great, but doesn't give a very accurate representation of the full score. It mostly cover the final part of the film.

Several themes are missing

[Wojo 2,453]

Nobody seems to have noticed that my comment was a joke made in response to something Pasi hornist Tiitinen posted in a different thread. I'll take back two kadams for being too cerebral.

CEot3K is a veritable masterpiece. I just don't care to think about whether it's his "best" because I don't think in absolutes.

[Incanus 5,714]

Nobody seems to have noticed that my comment was a joke made in response to something Pasi hornist Tiitinen posted in a different thread. I'll take back two kadams for being too cerebral.

CEot3K is a veritable masterpiece. I just don't care to think about whether it's his "best" because I don't think in absolutes.

Yeah only Zimmer fans deal in absolutes.

[Wojo 2,453]

He's more machine now than man.

[A24 4,333]

Soon Wojo will even love the prequels.

[tannhauser 101]

I love it. My 3 favourites of his are CE3K, ET, and Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. But I think CE would just edge it out to first.

[Wojo 2,453]

Soon Wojo will even love the prequels.

You mean the Hobbit movies? Yeah, I love those prequels.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Nobody seems to have noticed that my comment was a joke made in response to something Pasi hornist Tiitinen posted in a different thread. I'll take back two kadams for being too cerebral.

CEot3K is a veritable masterpiece. I just don't care to think about whether it's his "best" because I don't think in absolutes.

Hey, I noticed that.

And Lotr EEs(?)are 16 times longer than CEot3K.

That's too much.

-Pasi hornist Tiitinen

[Uni 306]

I've never heard the original album. The only version I have is Collector's Edition. But given my recent infatuation with both Jaws and E.T. short albums, which work almost as concert pieces, I'd like to hear this one as well in such a form. Having said that, the album I have is great.

Karol

Most of us owned the OSTs to these scores early on (back when that's all there was to be had), and pined for the day when we'd get expanded or complete versions. When that day finally came, many of us switched to the newer versions and sent the OSTs to the back of the bin—for good, or so we thought.

I've come to have a new appreciation for those older versions. They may not be as faithful to the film, but they offer their own unique listening experiences. For instance, my cassette (!) copy of the OST for E.T. busted not long before the 20th Anniversary release of the expanded score. So it made for an easy, and welcome, transfer. But after a while I started longing to hear the pieces again as they were originally presented—and I couldn't, because I couldn't seem to find an OST copy of E.T. anywhere in the world. It's like they all vanished after the new one came out. When I finally tracked one down (and it took several years, believe it or not), I celebrated almost as much as when the expanded version hit the shelves. "E.T. and Me" is a piece that ranks near the top among Williams' most beautiful, but you can't get it on the newer release. It only exists on the OST . . . making that version a commodity I never imagined it would be.

It's the same with Close Encounters. It doesn't contain "concert versions" like E.T., but it edits together separate passages from different parts of the film. I used to look down my nose at that—back when that's all I had—but after listening to "The Mountain" a hundred times, I began missing how it used to move seamlessly into the latter half of "The Returnees" to create a listening experience that's euphoric in its granduer and grace. I now keep both versions on my player, since I never know which I'll be in the mood to hear.

It seems everything has come full circle to the point where all variations have their own unique value and charm. That's certainly the case for CE3K . . . and I certainly would recommend you give it a try.

- Uni

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

I've never heard the original album. The only version I have is Collector's Edition. But given my recent infatuation with both Jaws and E.T. short albums, which work almost as concert pieces, I'd like to hear this one as well in such a form. Having said that, the album I have is great.

Karol

Most of us owned the OSTs to these scores early on (back when that's all there was to be had), and pined for the day when we'd get expanded or complete versions. When that day finally came, many of us switched to the newer versions and sent the OSTs to the back of the bin—for good, or so we thought.

I've come to have a new appreciation for those older versions. They may not be as faithful to the film, but they offer their own unique listening experiences. For instance, my cassette (!) copy of the OST for E.T. busted not long before the 20th Anniversary release of the expanded score. So it made for an easy, and welcome, transfer. But after a while I started longing to hear the pieces again as they were originally presented—and I couldn't, because I couldn't seem to find an OST copy of E.T. anywhere in the world. It's like they all vanished after the new one came out. When I finally tracked one down (and it took several years, believe it or not), I celebrated almost as much as when the expanded version hit the shelves. "E.T. and Me" is a piece that ranks near the top among Williams' most beautiful, but you can't get it on the newer release. It only exists on the OST . . . making that version a commodity I never imagined it would be.

It's the same with Close Encounters. It doesn't contain "concert versions" like E.T., but it edits together separate passages from different parts of the film. I used to look down my nose at that—back when that's all I had—but after listening to "The Mountain" a hundred times, I began missing how it used to move seamlessly into the latter half of "The Returnees" to create a listening experience that's euphoric in its granduer and grace. I now keep both versions on my player, since I never know which I'll be in the mood to hear.

It seems everything has come full circle to the point where all variations have their own unique value and charm. That's certainly the case for CE3K . . . and I certainly would recommend you give it a try.

- Uni

Yeah, I agree with this, and I think it's particularly true of William's scores. To this day when I hear the Main Title on the original Star Wars LP (before it was A New Hope), I keep expecting it to segue into that quasi-overture rather than Imperial Attack. And while I love and prefer the Special Edition Star Wars CD releases for their completeness, the original LP was sequenced and put together in such a thoughtful, masterful way at the time, and I still find myself going back to it occasionally.

[Brónach 1,302]

Never heard it. I can't imagine another music following that.

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

Never heard it. I can't imagine another music following that.

You mean you've never heard the original version of the Main Title, as it was presented on the LP, original CD, and Anthology collection?

[Faleel 5,347]

Or in almost every performance of the Main Title in concert?

[Brónach 1,302]

Ah! I've mostly heard the RCA album. I don't remember how it was in the anthology but I've heard that too.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I have the original LP, which is almost ruined by zillions repeats. Now it is the CE.

The CE is too long.

I've never had or heard the original album. As a full score, the CE is great. For a more condensed version, the 20 minute suite as recorded by Gerhardt works perfectly. The shorter suite leaves out too much of the more dissonant material and thus doesn't really do the score justice.

I actually couldn't think of another Williams score that a short concert arrangement would do less justice.

[Richard Penna 3,687]

This is one of those scores that I really ought to love a hell of a lot more than I actually do. I can't figure out why it doesn't resonate more strongly with me. But regardless, this is definitely not my favorite Williams score, or even in my top 5 or anything like that.

Ditto

Nor me. But I think it's just this period that doesn't resonate with me. I think the earliest JW score that I truly love is Last Crusade (I like Temple obviously, but not as strongly). I don't seem to connect with anything (and much less be a fan of) pre the year of my birth (1985). I think that anything before that, and only JW's concert-oriented material attracts me. I vastly prefer the original E.T. album over any of the expansions.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

The Gerhardt Suite is great, but doesn't give a very accurate representation of the full score. It mostly cover the final part of the film.

Several themes are missing

Certainly. It's missing the whole journey/discovery portion of the film, including the dies irae, the mountain motif and that cool fugato. But I think it still captures the spirit of the score rather well, unlike the short standard suite, which completely drops all the dissonant stuff.

I actually couldn't think of another Williams score that a short concert arrangement would do less justice.

Not sure what you're saying. Are you saying that the long suite I mentioned doesn't do the score justice at all (which I disagree with, see my previous response)? Or that the short standard suite doesn't do it justice - which is what I've been trying to say? Or something else?

[gkgyver 1,645]

I mean that any suite can't replace the wonder that the full score/album offers.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Ah. Well, perhaps it's because I "grew up" with the Gerhardt suite, but to me the film and score have clear individual chapters, and the long suite represents the final chapter so well that I don't miss the others in that context. Of course, for the full thing, the full score is the only way to go.

[Ollie 1,059]

The original Star Wars & TESB LP's were two of the best assembled albums done by Williams.

Nah, I'm just fucking about. Thought it might make gkgyver burst a blood vessel.

I won't joke, it is better than LOTR. And I hold Shore's music in high regard.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

LOTR stands shoulder to shoulder with most of JW's works.

But JW has done a couple that are better.

[Quintus 5,399]

I wouldn't disagree with either sentiment. I love the LotR scores, but there's a lot of rambling in there and some REALLY bland action music (which for some reason still managed to inject pure suspense and class into the movie) and so I can appreciate why it's not for everyone, like the films themselves.

At the end of the day people will always be biased towards their preferred musical styles, and I too will take John's over Howard's 9 times out 10.

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

LOTR stands shoulder to shoulder with most of JW's works.

But JW has done a couple that are better.

Agree completely.

Williams has a much more substantial body of work than Shore, and William's doing a run of the mill score is better than your average Shore score.

But, in terms of Lord of the Rings, the only thing I can think of that surpasses it for Williams in quality, breath and scope is Star Wars (as a whole). The difference between Williams and Shore is that the drop off from Lord of the Rings to Shore's other work is pretty substantial, whereas several of William's scores measure up quite well against Star Wars. Shore just outdid himself on LOTR.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

LOTR stands shoulder to shoulder with most of JW's works.

But JW has done a couple that are better.

um NO. IMHO

Lotr scores are the equals or better than of Always, Hook, Missouri Breaks, Munich, Geisha, Monsignor, Eiger Sanction, Presumed Innocent, Seven Years in Tibet, Saving Private Ryan, Amistad, Rosewood, born on the fourth of July

JW scores superior to LOTR, Towering Inferno, Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, The Fury, Superman, 1941, The Empires Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark, ET, Return of the Jedi, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, Empire of the Sun, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Home Alone, Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, Catch Me if You Can, Terminal, War Horse, The Adventures of Tintin, and Lincoln. Just to name a few.

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

JW scores superior to LOTR, Towering Inferno, Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, The Fury, Superman, 1941, The Empires Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark, ET, Return of the Jedi, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, Empire of the Sun, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Home Alone, Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, Catch Me if You Can, Terminal, War Horse, The Adventures of Tintin, and Lincoln. Just to name a few.

Corrected.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I'm am LOL at the idea that anything LOTR is better than ET or Superman, let alone the others you marked out.

JW scores superior to LOTR, Towering Inferno, Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, The Fury, Superman, 1941, The Empires Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark, ET, Return of the Jedi, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, Empire of the Sun, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Home Alone, Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, Catch Me if You Can, Terminal, War Horse, The Adventures of Tintin, and Lincoln. Just to name a few.

Corrected.

no incorrected. I am LOL at the idea that anything LOTR is better than ET, Jaws, Superman, or any of the others I listed.

Adventures on Earth is beyond shores limited abilities, as is the Superman Love Theme, or anything in Raiders, TOD, oh and I believe Cadillac of the Skies just bomb middle earth.

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

I'm am LOL at the idea that anything LOTR is better than ET or Superman, let alone the others you marked out.

JW scores superior to LOTR, Towering Inferno, Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, The Fury, Superman, 1941, The Empires Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark, ET, Return of the Jedi, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, Empire of the Sun, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Home Alone, Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, Catch Me if You Can, Terminal, War Horse, The Adventures of Tintin, and Lincoln. Just to name a few.

Corrected.

no incorrected. I am LOL at the idea that anything LOTR is better than ET, Jaws, Superman, or any of the others I listed. I pity you sir.

Don't get me wrong, many of those scores you've listed are outstanding, and count among my favorites.

But LOTR is in a very rare class that includes Star Wars, and not much else.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

no sorry but I disagree. ET is so beyond lotr.

[Quintus 5,399]

Who cares anyway. It's apples and oranges on a merry go round

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

no sorry but I disagree. ET is so beyond lotr.

No worries, you're perfectly entitled to be wrong.

[Uni 306]

I think you can argue whether many scores on that list are greater than LOTR or not. But when you take a score like Towering Inferno—which has a dazzling main theme and a couple of good action passages, but fills much of the rest of the time with light disco, synth mood, and dated songs (do you really mean to imply that "We May Never Love Like This Again" is an order of magnitude better than "Into the West?")—and you rank it superior to a trilogy of works that at least approaches the scope of the Spielberg and Lucas trilogies . . . well, then you're not accomplishing much more than knocking points off the value of your opinion (in the eyes of others). Rather than challenging us to ask sincerely, "Does he have a point? How does Shore's work in this case stack up against the best of JW?", you have us rolling our eyes and saying, "Tha's just Joey hatin' on the Rings again."

Adventures on Earth is beyond shores limited abilities, as is the Superman Love Theme, or anything in Raiders, TOD, oh and I believe Cadillac of the Skies just bomb middle earth.

For the record, I don't think Shore could've pulled off any of those Williams miracles. But you'd have made a much stronger case by saying this alone than you did in relegating LOTR to the Eiger Sanction section. (In addition, by making an extended list of good vs. not-so-good, you also basically make the whole thing so subjective that it distracts from your central point. For instance, you'd have a harder time convincing me Hook belongs on that first list than anything else you've tried to "prove" so far.)

- Uni

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Uni I figured people would realize I was being insulting by my Hook comment.

And while you may find lotr better than the towering inferno, I do not. I think the jazz music in the film is exceptional, but clearly not for many on this board. I think Planting the Charges is one of the 3 or 4 best long pieces John has ever done, psycholigically speaking. It is a masterpiece of it's own variety. Speaking of Into the West, there are many songs that John has created that I'd rather listen to over and over than that. Exsultate Justi is another piece John's competitors would be hard pressed to duplicate.

I was sincere when I put Terminal on the list, it took several years for that score to hit me, same with Geisha. I won't say either are beyond Shore's abilities, I do know his talents are impressive. But it's interesting that I find something I missed or just didn't get that John created. That is why I had to add even his prequel scores to my Nana, perhaps one day aotc and rots may leave my sh** list.

hell who knows I might even get to the point that I like shore's scores.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I might listen to The Terminal one day...

[Brónach 1,302]

You're missing out.

[KK 3,307]

He sure is.

[Brónach 1,302]

I don't know what some find so difficult about just listening to things! I remember he said he'd only listened to Mars out of the whole Planets, and I imagine that's because he used it on a video. Listen to the rest, man! You'll like it!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I might listen to The Terminal one day...

that was me a while back then my old mp3 player started playing it first all the time. Fate, Karma, message from God?

[Brónach 1,302]

When you get stuff like The Terminal coming suddenly and randomly out of nowhere in his oeuvre is when you end up truly sold on John Williams.