Anakin's Theme versus Across The Stars

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The two prominent "personal" themes to come out of the prequel trilogy. Both connected with Anakin.

One a lyrical theme for the child Anakin. Innocent and playful. with only minor hints of Vader's presence. Which were supposed to become more prominent in subsequent film, but never did.

The other a soaring big "Hollywood" epic love theme. More stately. With hints of the turmoil of the Dark Side more clearly stated.

Lacking the poise and subtle touch of Anakin's Theme, but also the unfinished feel of that piece.

Which do you like more?

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

One a lyrical theme for the child Anakin. Innocent and playful. with only minor hints of Vader's presence. Which were supposed to become more prominent in subsequent film, but never did.

I wonder what ever happened w/that?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I guess they figured they needed an epic lovetheme for the second film.

[Jilal 569]

Across the Stars, definitely.

[Brónach 1,302]

With Anakin's theme is the bridge part that I happen to like. The part between 0.50 and 1:24, and then the version of the theme up to 2:11 more or less. It has that Williams-rocking-on-the-strings quality to it. The stablishing statements don't connect with me much.

[Incanus 5,714]

One a lyrical theme for the child Anakin. Innocent and playful. with only minor hints of Vader's presence. Which were supposed to become more prominent in subsequent film, but never did.

I wonder what ever happened w/that?

I think both Lucas and Williams agreed that the sweet theme for the child Anakin wasn't suitable for the character anymore when he became an angsty teen. Which is kind of true. The innocence was at the heart of the material, which was very much gone in Episodes II and III. Still a few more slowly darkening variations would have been nice to chart his fall to the Dark Side.

Oh and I voted for Across the Stars. I love the tri-part structure, a mini-story in itself, Williams weaving the Love Theme, the forbidden aspect of the love and finally Anakin's new dark motif into a one piece.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I prefer Anakin's Theme.

Across The Stars is good, but it's a little too cliche epic Hollywood. possible the only time JW has done this.

[Incanus 5,714]

I prefer Anakin's Theme.

Across The Stars is good, but it's a little too cliche epic Hollywood. possible the only time JW has done this.

Well his mandate was to write an old fashioned love theme. And he obliged. Unusually for SW the psychological subtext is very much present in the music.

Anakin's Theme is wonderful, a perfect depiction of an innocent sandy haired 9 year old and at the same time Williams is hinting at Darth Vader's Theme, the music full of dramatic implications. Not using it throughout the story was a missed opporturnity I feel.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Hedwig's theme.

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

Across the Stars is more instantly accessible, and has more of an epic sweep that you'd expect from a theme for a major character.

Anakin's theme is more subtle, and doesn't reveal its beauty quite so readily. I also think in the longer term it had more potential to develop (had they chosen to go that route). Also, and I have absolutely no proof of this or nothing concrete to base it on, but I suspect Williams put a bit more care and thought into Anakin's theme.

This is tough call, but I prefer Anakin's Theme for those reasons...Across the Stars is epic and lovely, but in a more traditional, in-your-face kind of way.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree with your post!

[Faleel 5,347]

I Like the unused version of the concert version of ATS, that has extended phrases, somewhere in the middle.

[Incanus 5,714]

I would say Across the Stars is not as simply dry and cut epic love theme people make it out to be. Williams' construction of the concert piece combines three distinct parts into one whole. The A part of the theme (0;00-2;02) is the traditional love theme, the tender and romantic melody, very traditional in style and orchestrations. It is very much music for a yearning romance, perhaps a hint of tragedy built into it. The B part is a relatively short melodic idea for the tragic and forbidden aspect of the romance (2;02-2;26), which will finally result in Anakin's fall. The C part is heard underneath the portentous horns and trombones, the string figure (2;27) repeating beneath actually the most central idea connected to Anakin in Episodes II and III, the Dies Irae type progression very fitting, Williams weaving the love theme snippets on woodwinds and brass on top of it.

Williams uses all these in the scores II and III to varying degrees and often they have psychological implications, the Anakin's Confession scene in Episode II building entirely on the Anakin motif of the C part heard in the Across the Stars suite and the B part when he suggests a secret love affair to Padme. The C part theme is also heard in Episode III in various forms, the Jedi Purge earning a particularly note worthy subtextual nod to Anakin's part in the events, no matter that it is indirect yet important.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The dramatic middle part isn't even well integrated with the two pieces that bookend it. For Williams' norms it's a bit sloppy.

[Incanus 5,714]

I for one think it is a pretty fitting bridging material, not sloppy at all, rather like a natural progression.

If anything I would say Anakin's Theme is much more direct for the most part, the most important aspect of it is to depict this angelic child. Especially if you look at the way it is used in the film. The concert suite perhaps more strongly makes a dramatic arc and has those musical implications embedded into it.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

The C-section theme

Hehehe...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The concert suite perhaps more strongly makes a dramatic arc and has those musical implications embedded into it.

My poll concerns the two concert tracks.

[Incanus 5,714]

Oh taken on their own I still slightly prefer the Across the Stars.

And I somehow knew you would be the one to take up on that one BB. I fell for it though, leaving myself open to such interpretations. So as not to lead other people to the sin of dirtying their minds I changed the original post.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

French pervert!

[Incanus 5,714]

Gallic hooligan!

[Smeltington 1,440]

Anakin's theme has a wistful quality that feels a bit more unique to me among Williams' oeuvre, particularly his work on the Star Wars series. I tend to overlook Across the Stars, perhaps unfairly, but it is easy to slot into the category of romantic themes and invite comparison to themes in the original trilogy that I prefer. Whereas I don't see a clear antecedent for Anakin's Theme in the previous Star Wars scores.

Incanus makes a good point about the musical "journey" of Across the Stars, and I'll have to keep that in mind on future listens. Anakin's Theme has a bit of a progression of ideas as well, starting out with a simple, peaceful passage indicating the nature of the young Anakin, then swelling a bit as it goes on, evoking Anakin's separation for his mother, and their longing for a better life for him. At the end, this leads us to the hint at his dark future. So I would look at the piece as a representation of Anakin's entire character arc, albeit a relatively restrained one.

[Quintus 5,399]

I love the soaring, fully realised statement of Anakin's theme, but the earlier melancholic reservations of the melody never did sit right with me. They always sounded weirdly off-key and unsatisfying. That final statement though revealed the true potential of what was a very beautiful theme, quintessential Williams in fact.

It's noteworthy in that it actually captures two era-separated sensibilities from the maestro in one piece: the post-Schindler's 'sophisticated' Williams (the beginning and main body of the cue - as refined a ballet as they come), and then quite suddenly we hear the unabashedly romantic and operatic Williams in the latter half, as he rewardingly punches through the earlier restraint with the richly satisfying orchestrational melodics he's famed for, in turn instilling a sense of mythos within the Anakin character the fans would have been expectant of and hopeful for. He delivered for them. The Vader descent passage of the theme is just genius.

Except George decided to just throw all that magic out for some reason, ho hum.

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

It's noteworthy in that it actually captures two era-separated sensibilities from the maestro in one piece: the post-Schindler's 'sophisticated' Williams (the beginning and main body of the cue - as refined a ballet as they come), and then quite suddenly we hear the unabashedly romantic and operatic Williams in the latter half, as he rewardingly punches through the earlier restraint with the richly satisfying orchestrational melodics he's famed for, in turn instilling a sense of mythos within the Anakin character the fans would have been expectant of and hopeful for. He delivered for them. The Vader descent passage of the theme is just genius.

Very insightful. Nice analysis.

[Tom 4,658]

I would say Across the Stars is not as simply dry and cut epic love theme people make it out to be. Williams' construction of the concert piece combines three distinct parts into one whole. The A part of the theme (0;00-2;02) is the traditional love theme, the tender and romantic melody, very traditional in style and orchestrations. It is very much music for a yearning romance, perhaps a hint of tragedy built into it. The B part is a relatively short melodic idea for the tragic and forbidden aspect of the romance (2;02-2;26), which will finally result in Anakin's fall. The C part is heard underneath the portentous horns and trombones, the string figure (2;27) repeating beneath actually the most central idea connected to Anakin in Episodes II and III, the Dies Irae type progression very fitting, Williams weaving the love theme snippets on woodwinds and brass on top of it.

Williams uses all these in the scores II and III to varying degrees and often they have psychological implications, the Anakin's Confession scene in Episode II building entirely on the Anakin motif of the C part heard in the Across the Stars suite and the B part when he suggests a secret love affair to Padme. The C part theme is also heard in Episode III in various forms, the Jedi Purge earning a particularly note worthy subtextual nod to Anakin's part in the events, no matter that it is indirect yet important.

I have always thought tthe B section was a variation of the descending part of Anakin's theme, which would show a partial expansion of Anakin's theme in ATS. But maybe I am just hearing things that are not there.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I like about the last 30 seconds of Across the Stars,

Anakin's theme by a light year. Nothing about AOTC deserves any praise, it deserves to be stomped into the ground.

[KK 3,307]

Woah, that's a bit harsh, don't you think?

Across the Stars is one of the most beautiful themes of post-2000. I love it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

At least Joe is consistent in his opinion.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Anakin's Theme.

Across The Stars is a beautiful theme, but as much kitsch as the movie itself.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yep.

[Quintus 5,399]

At least Joe is consistent in his opinion.

Don't be silly, he doesn't have an opinion about Across the Stars. He just likes to have a good bitch about it for some reason, same as he does about David Fincher.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I know better.

[gkgyver 1,645]

At least Star Wars and Lord of the Rings are equal for Joey in the sense that he hates Episode II as much as LotR.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Once again you show your prejudice ( a trait amongst your countrymen, but still)

As far as i know Joe has nothing much against LOTR. He only gave his opinion about the abundance of threads regarding that subject.

I seem to recall him enjoying ROTK.

[Quintus 5,399]

Get your tongue out of his arse, dutchy boy! Joey has everything against LotR. He can't stand it. If he comes in here now and denies it, he's lying,

[Ollie 1,059]

Anakin's Theme.

Especially since I never believed she loved Anakin, one of the most awkward, forced relationships with no chemistry between the actors.

[indy4 155]

Across the Stars, but they're both great.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Get your tongue out of his arse, dutchy boy! Joey has everything against LotR. He can't stand it. If he comes in here now and denies it, he's lying,

You and the Gman don't know what the fk you're talking about. Get your head out of your ass. Yes Ass not the needless long arcane version you use. I've long admitted a strong like for ROTK the film. The fact you've not noticed is all on you!

And Gman I prefer FOTR. and ROTK over AOTC any day. I still think TTT is not on par with the first and last. I don't hate Lotr. I dislike the way everything gets turned into a Lotr is better. I'm still laughing at the sheer audacity that said Lotr is better than ET. I'm still waiting for that only with Empire.

And quint aotc is the worst of JW's big scores.

[Uni 306]

I broke the tie!

Anakin's Theme, for a number of reasons—many of which have already been very well articulated here already. I think John has an easier time with the big, sweeping, cinematic themes like Across the Stars. Don't get me wrong: it's a great piece, and I'm very fond of it. But it's just another day at the office for the Maestro.

I would've expected him to make Anakin's Theme simpler, less layered, more straightforward. And yet he wove a marvelously complex tapestry to elucidate an epically shallow character (or, at the very least, a character who's presented in an epically shallow way). It goes above and beyond, so it gets my vote here.

If there's any real reason I have to dislike Across the Stars, I think no one said it better than this:

Especially since I never believed she loved Anakin, one of the most awkward, forced relationships with no chemistry between the actors.

In a nutshell.

On a separate note, but worth mentioning . . . I find it very interesting to see how—on a completely different subject than has been brought up to this point—the same people who seem to agree in other, unrelated discussions are siding together here. Pay attention, now: I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong, just that they're paralleling viewpoints in remarkably similar fashion to the norm. One could almost argue there's evidence for a common mindset, a specific set of values or "taste" that leads one group to favor a certain type of musical phrasing, or presentation, or whatever.

A fascinating phenomenon, worth further study. . . .

- Uni

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Anakin's Theme is beautiful. If only the films delivered on what this theme promised.

[Padme 0]

Across the Stars, for me

[Datameister 2,042]

Interesting question. I just listened to "Anakin's Theme" for the first time in quite a while the other day, and I was struck by how it perhaps deserves more respect than I give it. It's definitely less accessible, less hummable - I mean, quite literally, I left the theater humming "Across the Stars" in 2002, whereas "Anakin's Theme" wasn't really even on my radar in 1999 until I listened to the OST. But there's something there. It's got a sweetness and depth to it. I do think a lot of what makes it appealing is in the bridge section and in the hints of Vader's theme, though.

I'm gonna vote for "Across the Stars." But as always when it comes to questions like these, I'm glad I can have the pleasure of listening to both.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Across the Stars, for me

Heh, I would have figured.

I prefer Anakin's Theme. Although a theme for a child, it has a maturity that makes it capable of being associated with a character of any age. I've just never been keen on Across the Stars; he's written better love themes and its association with such a cringe inducing on-screen couple makes it a track that I rarely ever return to.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Anakin's Theme.

Especially since I never believed she loved Anakin, one of the most awkward, forced relationships with no chemistry between the actors.

Anakin leers at her like a creepy serial rapist for most of these films.

Its actually disturbing at times. Moreso then the incestious stuff in the OT.

[Quintus 5,399]

Get your tongue out of his arse, dutchy boy! Joey has everything against LotR. He can't stand it. If he comes in here now and denies it, he's lying,

You and the Gman don't know what the fk you're talking about. Get your head out of your ass. Yes Ass not the needless long arcane version you use. I've long admitted a strong like for ROTK the film. The fact you've not noticed is all on you!

And Gman I prefer FOTR. and ROTK over AOTC any day. I still think TTT is not on par with the first and last. I don't hate Lotr. I dislike the way everything gets turned into a Lotr is better. I'm still laughing at the sheer audacity that said Lotr is better than ET. I'm still waiting for that only with Empire.

And quint aotc is the worst of JW's big scores.

Cheers for the useful comments in regards to LotR Joey. I'll be sure to quote them for you whenever necessary

Oh and I still think you're bulling.

[crocodile 8,012]

ATS. Never liked Anakin's theme.

Karol

[wanner251 17]

I find Anakin's Theme to be so much more interesting, and fitting. But then I think, "Hmmm.... Across the Stars..... harp only...." That makes it for me...

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I actually remember the first time I listened to Anakin's theme. I'd yet to see the film. I was delighted at how he'd (JW) turned the Imperial March on it's head. Brilliant.

for all it's flaws the Phantom Menace is John still enthusiastic about Star Wars.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree, it was very cool to hear that subtle reference to Vaders theme.

It was gonna be so great.

[Brónach 1,302]

Phantom Menace is a is a really, really cool addition to the SW musical universe. I think Gia should take that one as reference.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He doesnt have the talent for that