Which came first -- Daddy-O or M Squad?

[Thor 7,495]

In my ongoing quest for all things ancient Williams (I aim to put all of this together into a coherent piece eventually), I'm trying to find out what Williams' first ever score in the industry was. We all know he did that one-off travelogue film YOU ARE WELCOME (1954/55) when he was in the air force, but I'm interested in the first ever assignment he got in LA when he moved from session pianist/orchestrator/coffeemaker to an actual ORIGINAL SCORE in the late 50's.

Here's what we can deduce from the information so far:

The first episode he did for M SQUAD aired on October 24, 1958, two months before the first episode he did for WAGON TRAIN.

We know his name is associated with a show that premiered earlier than that -- GENERAL ELECTRIC THEATER (1953-1962) -- but we don't know which episodes. In all likelihood, it was something in the last few seasons. There are also titles like PLAYHOUSE 90 (1956-1960), TALES OF WELLS FARGO (1957-1962) and the film MY GUN IS QUICK (1957), but his association with these is unsubstantiated.

Now I always assumed DADDY-O premiered in 1959 or 1960, but imdb says it premiered in March-1958, which makes THAT the first ever thing he did in the film and tv industry. That seems awfully early, though. I assumed he did TV shows for a couple of years before he got his first feature film assignment.

So what are we to make of all of this? Fellow Williams archeologists, speak up!

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

Doesn't this thread belong on the Johnny Williams forum?

[Thor 7,495]

He, he...now THAT would be something. A forum strictly about Williams' early days. I'd be there all day long.

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

Now see, that's how to respond when someone makes a joke in your thread.

The only thing I know about Johnny Williams is that I was surprised to learn, years and years ago that he did the music for Lost in Space, which I loved as a kid. I had know idea while I was listening to the Star Wars LP over and over again that it was the same guy.

[Thor 7,495]

Never trust Wikipedia, I say. There's a claim there that Williams shares a music credit on CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON (1954). That sounds ridiculous to me, as Williams was serving in the air force at that time -- probably stuck up at Newfoundland arranging marches for military bands!

If it is true that DADDY-O was the very first original score he did within the industry, that's pretty impressive right there (regardless of the film's quality). I mean....you do a feature film first, right off the bat, then some tv shows for a couple of years and then BECAUSE THEY'RE YOUNG in 1960.

No, something doesn't seem right here. The date for DADDY-O must be off.

[indy4 155]

There's an interview with JW in the 90s where he says his first film was Because They're Young. I always assumed he was just forgetful, but maybe that helps explain it.

[Thor 7,495]

There's an interview with JW in the 90s where he says his first film was Because They're Young. I always assumed he was just forgetful, but maybe that helps explain it.

Yeah, I remember that quote. Sounds like he's being forgetful....who wants to remember DADDY-O anyway? Still, I do think the premiere date of that film must be later than what imdb and wikipedia suggests.

[filmmusic 1,826]

There's an interview with JW in the 90s where he says his first film was Because They're Young. I always assumed he was just forgetful, but maybe that helps explain it.

it could be. noone would know unless someone researches when every film was shot.

this could have been shot before Daddy-O and released years after..

Thor, you can't rely on the premiere date.. this wouldn't be totally accurate

[Koray Savas 2,251]

His music for M Squad is awesome.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

What matters most is what came later. The 1970s and ditching the nickname.

[Fabulin 3,511]

Released March 1958... it is not unthinkable that Williams got the gig during or before November 1957, which would mean that all major Golden Age composers were still alive at the time.

Mind blown.

[Bespin 8,480]

This is the actual information from my website, but the titles of a same year can be out of chronology.

COMPOSITIONS – FILM & TV SCORES

1954

You Are Welcome (U.S. Army documentary recorded in 1952)

1958

Playhouse 90 (TV) (1956-1960)

M-Squad (TV) (1957-1960) (8 episodes, 1958-1959)

Wagon Train (TV) (1957-1965) (5 episodes, 1958-1963)

Daddy-O

1959

Markham (TV) (1959-1960) (1 episode, 1959)

Bachelor Father (TV) (1957-1962) (44 episodes, 1959-1960)

1960

General Electric Theater (TV) (1953-1962) (2 episodes, 1960-1962)

Tales of Wells Fargo (TV) (1957-1962)

I Passed for White

Because They're Young

Checkmate (TV) (1960-1962) (theme & 41 episodes, 1960-1962)

[Thor 7,495]

On 7/13/2019 at 12:50 PM, Fabulin said:

Released March 1958... it is not unthinkable that Williams got the gig during or before November 1957, which would mean that all major Golden Age composers were still alive at the time.

Mind blown.

 

Well, as previously discussed, that date isn't necessarily accurate. I'm aware it's the month given at IMDB and Wikipedia, but other, more concrete information -- like when the film was copyrighted -- insinuates that the release date was a bit later. It also wasn't a very wide release. My guess is that Williams was assigned and started working on this in April-1958, at the earliest. Which unquestionably predates M SQUAD (August/September at the earliest), but not necessarily the one-off TV assignment for PLAYHOUSE 90 on March 20 (before he ever signed a contract with Revue).

[Junion 107]

I am absolutely sure that the premiere of DADDY-O did not take place in March, 1958 as mentioned on IMDB and Wikipedia but one year later. Based on the book "Screen World 1960 (Volume 11)" by Daniel Blum, DADDY-O was released in March, 1959! This book was copyrighted in 1960 and listed most film releases in the USA between January 1 to December 31, 1959.

 

Therefore, the one second-season episode "The Right Hand Man" of PLAYHOUSE 90 must have been scored by John Williams before. Air date of this episode was March 20, 1958.

[Thor 7,495]

1 minute ago, Junion said:

I am absolutely sure that the premiere of DADDY-O did not take place in March, 1958 as mentioned on IMDB and Wikipedia but one year later. Based on the book "Screen World 1960 (Volume 11)" by Daniel Blum, DADDY-O was released in March, 1959! This book was copyrighted in 1960 and listed most film releases in the USA between January 1 to December 31, 1959.

 

Therefore, the one second-season episode "The Right Hand Man" of PLAYHOUSE 90 must have been scored by John Williams before. Air date of this episode was March 20, 1958.

 

Yes, that episode of PLAYHOUSE was a bizarre, early piece of composition work. It pre-dates him signing with Revue and Wilson in the summer of '58. Probably some "friend favour" or something.

 

I think Bob DiMucci over on FSM found out that the copyright of DADDY-O was established in February '58, so a March release was always unlikely (even though there isn't necessarily a link between when a work was copyrighted and when it went into production).

 

But thanks for the info nonetheless. It was similarly always unlikely that he would get his first feature film before doing some TV work. Both IMDB and Wikipedia are wrong on several things; for example, there's no way THE KATHERINE REED STORY came out in 1965, as it features the Neil Hefti theme for the original BATMAN movie that came out in 1966.