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The one John Williams score everyone seems to love that you just don't get...


Sandor

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Somebody call the waaaaaahhhmbulance. We've got whiners in here.

Stopped taking you seriously about the time I read your little "Scrolling" list. Someone has got a lot of time on their hands. :)

Run along now...your mom's calling you to take out the trash.

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Maybe it's because you spam on every second thread here with a vengeance while i only post occasionally. But it's nice to see that little still can go a long way.

Lee's latest routine is to harvest post count by "getting bored with a thread" and then bitching about the doldrums.

Quite fascinating given that he has consistently been the forum's top poster these last few days.

Steef should consider adopting this strategy to continue his post count dominance.

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It's called post procrastination as made possible with the advent of smartphones. Even I'm bored of saying I'm bored, it's gotten that bad. I'm bored of my own posts as much as I'm bored of the bickering and arguing about who killed who. I need to just boot myself up my own arse and retire.

Maybe it's because you spam on every second thread here with a vengeance while i only post occasionally.

Yes, we're thankful for small mercies. You edgy outsider you, in your white shirt leaning up against the wall like the rebellious cavalier you are.

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It's called post procrastination as made possible with the advent of smartphones. Even I'm bored of saying I'm bored, it's gotten that bad. I'm bored of my own posts as much as I'm bored of the bickering and arguing about who killed who. I need to just boot myself up my own arse and retire.

A break here and there does the soul good. Take a vacation.

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Not an option with a two year old and a thirteen week year old in tow. Right now and for the foreseeable future I'm resigned to imagining what getting out (other than for work) actually feels like. Holiday is off the cards till next year as well due to current inappropriate vehicle, but we did get away twice last year so it's not all bad.

Actually, it's just occurred to me that if my own posts are boring to me then they must be that x10 to everyone else! Fuck, I think perhaps I owe the board a break.

[Arnie] I'll be back... [/Arnie]

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I've never really came across anything I didn't like, but I like some scores more than others. Tastes differ. Why start a fight because someone does not like something?

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This is nothing - read some of the reaction at FSM to Newman winning the Bafta. The speed it descends into personal insults is remarkable. One guy started a thread complaining that Mendes had criticised a bit in one of Barry's Bond scores. Seriously?

it's hilarious and yet sad that every iconic John Williams score is on someones whiney ass bitch list.



Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Superman, ESB, Raider, E.T., ROTJ,
TOD. all the greats from the John's masterful 10 year period from 1975
to 1984.


Everyone of these scores is above reproach.


You don't like them? Fine, but you're dislike doesn't change the fact that each and everyone of these scores is a masteripiece.

Why is it so sad? It's impossible to write a piece of music that everyone will like, and every one of those scores you listed is different. It doesn't surprise me at all that a person who generally loves JW's work from that era might not connect to one of them. What makes you so offended when someone reveals this?

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I've never really came across anything I didn't like, but I like some scores more than others. Tastes differ. Why start a fight because someone does not like something?

Because it's Joey.

This is the most pathetic bitching thread we've had in a long time.

it's hilarious and yet sad that every iconic John Williams score is on someones whiney ass bitch list.

Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Superman, ESB, Raider, E.T., ROTJ, TOD. all the greats from the John's masterful 10 year period from 1975 to 1984.

Everyone of these scores is above reproach.

You don't like them? Fine, but you're dislike doesn't change the fact that each and everyone of these scores is a masteripiece.

Each is exciting, emotional, and thrilling, a few of them actually are game changers.

Yes John has scores that are strong, and some are weak, not every score is a home run. Sometimes he uses musical choices that don't fit the sensibilities of the folks here. Uni says anyone could have written The Adventures of Tintin, really? anyone? The score is so John William, again it might not be to your liking but the score screams John Williams, actually it scream Johnny Williams. No current film composer would have gone where John went. I'm not sure that they could or would have dared to try.

I find it funny that so many here are easily accepting of the sci fi, or fantasy but yet the contemporary sounds of the 70's are so off putting. Hogwarts and Middle Earth are easy to swallow but that stuff from the 70's can't be real can it?

Then there is Schindler's List. What's not to get about Schindler's List, it's a lovely sad score remembering the Holocaust. What's to get. It's not an intellectual endeavor, it's a score that's meant to be felt. But to be felt would suppose the listener has the ability to feel, and I'm beginning to wonder if some here have that ability.

Anyway carry on with your bitch fest, I'm going to go find my inner John Williams, he want's me to play The City Sleeps, and all will be well.

And you wonder why some people have problems with you ...

Just a question. You say you didn't tell anyone they are wrong. How else would you interprete a post that contains the word "bitch" and "whine" around 20 times, denies many members the ability to feel, calls civilised discussions a "bitch fest" and state that any score by Williams in a certain timeframe is beyond any discussion?

It's posts like these that make you seem like a ... well ...

When you don't add, and don't want to add, anything to the discussion, but simply talk down on the people who contribute.

You singlehandedly clearly imply that a large group of members on this board knows nothing about film music, doesn't know how to listen to film music and doesn't understand film music. That is, simply put, ignorant ass talk.

Many members' parents didn't even know each other yet in the 70s, how on earth could they have a connection to those films similar to the one they have to Potter and LotR (and I'm glad you got your Middle-Earth stab in)?

I'm afraid the only pathetic bitching in this thread can be found in your posts.

Nobody denied any Williams score their classic status, but Jesus, don't call an opinion "pathetic whining" just because someone doesn't grant The Towering Inferno or The Lost World or Tintin the status of eternal film music classics!

I hope you have something more productive to do.

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Revenge of the Sith, Prisoner of Azkaban and Tintin. These are by no means even mediocre scores. However, they are loaded with uninteresting "filler" music. The classics like Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Superman, Indy etc. don't have a single dull moment for me in their complete scores. When I'm skipping tracks, that's not exactly great.

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I've never really came across anything I didn't like, but I like some scores more than others. Tastes differ. Why start a fight because someone does not like something?

Because it's Joey.

>>>>>This is the most pathetic bitching thread we've had in a long time.

it's hilarious and yet sad that every iconic John Williams score is on someones whiney ass bitch list.

Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Superman, ESB, Raider, E.T., ROTJ, TOD. all the greats from the John's masterful 10 year period from 1975 to 1984.

Everyone of these scores is above reproach.

You don't like them? Fine, but you're dislike doesn't change the fact that each and everyone of these scores is a masteripiece.

Each is exciting, emotional, and thrilling, a few of them actually are game changers.

Yes John has scores that are strong, and some are weak, not every score is a home run. Sometimes he uses musical choices that don't fit the sensibilities of the folks here. Uni says anyone could have written The Adventures of Tintin, really? anyone? The score is so John William, again it might not be to your liking but the score screams John Williams, actually it scream Johnny Williams. No current film composer would have gone where John went. I'm not sure that they could or would have dared to try.

I find it funny that so many here are easily accepting of the sci fi, or fantasy but yet the contemporary sounds of the 70's are so off putting. Hogwarts and Middle Earth are easy to swallow but that stuff from the 70's can't be real can it?

Then there is Schindler's List. What's not to get about Schindler's List, it's a lovely sad score remembering the Holocaust. What's to get. It's not an intellectual endeavor, it's a score that's meant to be felt. But to be felt would suppose the listener has the ability to feel, and I'm beginning to wonder if some here have that ability.

Anyway carry on with your bitch fest, I'm going to go find my inner John Williams, he want's me to play The City Sleeps, and all will be well.

And you wonder why some people have problems with you ...

Just a question. You say you didn't tell anyone they are wrong. How else would you interprete a post that contains the word "bitch" and "whine" around 20 times, denies many members the ability to feel, calls civilised discussions a "bitch fest" and state that any score by Williams in a certain timeframe is beyond any discussion?

It's posts like these that make you seem like a ... well ...

When you don't add, and don't want to add, anything to the discussion, but simply talk down on the people who contribute.

You singlehandedly clearly imply that a large group of members on this board knows nothing about film music, doesn't know how to listen to film music and doesn't understand film music. That is, simply put, ignorant ass talk.

Many members' parents didn't even know each other yet in the 70s, how on earth could they have a connection to those films similar to the one they have to Potter and LotR (and I'm glad you got your Middle-Earth stab in)?

I'm afraid the only pathetic bitching in this thread can be found in your posts.

Nobody denied any Williams score their classic status, but Jesus, don't call an opinion "pathetic whining" just because someone doesn't grant The Towering Inferno or The Lost World or Tintin the status of eternal film music classics!

I hope you have something more productive to do.

you and rich weren't really the people that I was talking about but if you're going that direction??? You really should learn to read, otherwise you wouldn't act so pissy. Perhaps you are one of that crowd

I never mentioned the Towering Inferno in that post. Nor did I give Tintin any status other than it was clearly something written by John Williams. I added to the discussion but your sensibilities are incapable of getting that. I told everyone it was FINE to feel as they do. Just remember those scores I listed from 75 to 84 are above reproach. They have stood the test of time and it's silly that a bunch of whiners want to bitch and moan, though Sandor say it best...slander the greatest period of the man's career. That part is still true.

rich both you and G also missed the part where I said John's music doesn't always fit with some folk's sensibilities here.

Oh yeah G, there are tracks from Close Encounters that are easy to skip over too, it's true of most scores. I'm not so self absorbed to worry about people having problems with me. Boo Hoo, If I think that slandering Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounter, Superman, ESB, Raiders, E.T., ROTJ, and TOD is somewhat bitchy it's because it is. You don't have to like every score, but thats slandering those films is probably a step too far. And Rich that is sad.

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This is the most pathetic bitching thread we've had in a long time.

it's hilarious and yet sad that every iconic John Williams score is on someones whiney ass bitch list.

Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Superman, ESB, Raider, E.T., ROTJ, TOD. all the greats from the John's masterful 10 year period from 1975 to 1984.

Everyone of these scores is above reproach.

You don't like them? Fine, but you're dislike doesn't change the fact that each and everyone of these scores is a masteripiece.

Each is exciting, emotional, and thrilling, a few of them actually are game changers.

Yes John has scores that are strong, and some are weak, not every score is a home run. Sometimes he uses musical choices that don't fit the sensibilities of the folks here. Uni says anyone could have written The Adventures of Tintin, really? anyone? The score is so John William, again it might not be to your liking but the score screams John Williams, actually it scream Johnny Williams. No current film composer would have gone where John went. I'm not sure that they could or would have dared to try.

I find it funny that so many here are easily accepting of the sci fi, or fantasy but yet the contemporary sounds of the 70's are so off putting. Hogwarts and Middle Earth are easy to swallow but that stuff from the 70's can't be real can it?

Then there is Schindler's List. What's not to get about Schindler's List, it's a lovely sad score remembering the Holocaust. What's to get. It's not an intellectual endeavor, it's a score that's meant to be felt. But to be felt would suppose the listener has the ability to feel, and I'm beginning to wonder if some here have that ability.

Anyway carry on with your bitch fest, I'm going to go find my inner John Williams, he want's me to play The City Sleeps, and all will be well.

This pretty much sums up why I have visited these forums for about 10 years but hardly ever post. With that being said, Prisoner of Azkaban would be my choice. I like it but find SS and COS superior

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E.T.

Star Wars

Jaws

Superman

Close Encounters of the Third Kind

1984 Olympics

But most of all, "The City Sleeps" from Earthquake. This is JW at his very worst.

rgxdtc.jpg

Oh, that's right.

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That said, when it comes to this kind of thing I've always found myself wondering if I'm missing something that other people are hearing. Maybe I was distracted the first time I listened to the score. Maybe I don't like it as much as I would've if the film had been better. Maybe I'm just dense. Maybe. . . .

But then you read a thread like this that makes it unequivocally clear that everyone has individual proclivities that make them who they are. And those proclivities lead them to like certain styles and works of music, to dislike others, and to feel ambivalent about still others. And no two people are apt to have exactly the same ideas about what makes a good score as opposed to what doesn't work.

I don't think everyone approaches musical appreciation with the same degree of humility you do, Scott. If, as you say, my opinion on a particular score is (part of) what "makes me me," then it is all too natural that I regard an opinion that jostles my own as a personal attack that demands commensurate response.

Sorry, but regarding an opinion other than your own as a "personal attack" is not natural, and responding as if you've been "personally attacked" is also not natural. And it's not a good way to go through life. If someone attacks you while stating their opinion, that's one thing...but an opinion different from your is not in and of itself a "personal attack."

Uni is of course correct in what he says above, and blustery demands that people defend or explain their opinions on art are absurd. If someone wants to explain why they feel a certain way about a piece of music, fair enough, but attempting to browbeat them into justifying why they feel how they feel, and why you're right and they're wrong, is as pointless as arguing why your favourite colour is better than theirs.

Disagreeing about music is of course normal, and sites like this would be boring if everyone agreed. But taking a disagreement on matters of art as a personal attack, and responding like it's a personal attack (or initiating one), is a big part of why message boards about film and music are often as vitriolic as they are.

All very fine sentiments. Yet I'll stand by my (I thought, axiomatic) observation that that it is natural, or common, to react defensively to opinions that depart from our own, given how central our opinions are to how we define ourselves. Whether or not responding that way is generally healthful or productive was not the concern of my post.

Uni is of course correct in what he says above, and blustery demands that people defend or explain their opinions on art are absurd. If someone wants to explain why they feel a certain way about a piece of music, fair enough, but attempting to browbeat them into justifying why they feel how they feel, and why you're right and they're wrong, is as pointless as arguing why your favourite colour is better than theirs.

I find your behaviour incredibly whiny and totally uncalled for (especially after posting your shtick on an open discussion forum). Sadly, it has become a generally accepted norm that any kind of debate that isn't cuddly-cozy is somehow unhealthy and 'unbecoming' for internet messageboards (or politics/culture and whatever) so i shut up.

By nature I tend to prefer civil debates (though I'm clearly not above throwing some bizarre curve balls of my own). But I've come to accept and often appreciate the splashes of color we get from the congenital curmudgeons among us. ;) And maybe it's all too often done in an intemperate or heavy-handed way, but I think many of us, such as myself, can stand to have our opinions challenged, shaken up, and dissected a little. Sometimes that's the best kind of respect.

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By nature I tend to prefer civil debates (though I'm clearly not above throwing some bizarre curve balls of my own). But I've come to accept and often appreciate the splashes of color we get from the congenital curmudgeons among us. ;) And maybe it's all too often done in an intemperate or heavy-handed way, but I think many of us, such as myself, can stand to have our opinions challenged, shaken up, and dissected a little. Sometimes that's the best kind of respect.

The thing is, neither i nor anyone else was 'uncivil' or 'openly hostile' to user Nick66...it was just a minor wording issue and he (and others) were short of calling the United Nations, crying ABUSE! ABUSE! We all have seen verbal abuse on messageboards (FSM!) and while someone can tell me he/she is pissed off (or press 'ignore', surely the most pathetic function to use), i find this heavy word-mongering about such trifles really idiotic.

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Revenge of the Sith, Prisoner of Azkaban and Tintin. These are by no means even mediocre scores. However, they are loaded with uninteresting "filler" music. The classics like Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Superman, Indy etc. don't have a single dull moment for me in their complete scores. When I'm skipping tracks, that's not exactly great.

In my opinion, Superman has more filler music than ROTS, POA and Tintin all together.

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Oh yeah G, there are tracks from Close Encounters that are easy to skip over too, it's true of most scores. I'm not so self absorbed to worry about people having problems with me. Boo Hoo, If I think that slandering Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounter, Superman, ESB, Raiders, E.T., ROTJ, and TOD is somewhat bitchy it's because it is. You don't have to like every score, but thats slandering those films is probably a step too far. And Rich that is sad.

You're agreeing that most scores have skippable tracks, yet when anyone else points that out about 70s/80s Williams, they're somehow slandering them? At no point in this thread has anyone denigrated any of your favourites beyond stating exactly what you just did. (and my criticisms are solely based on my lack of interest in that era of music, and while you may find that sad, it's my problem, not yours).

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Oh yeah G, there are tracks from Close Encounters that are easy to skip over too, it's true of most scores. I'm not so self absorbed to worry about people having problems with me. Boo Hoo, If I think that slandering Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounter, Superman, ESB, Raiders, E.T., ROTJ, and TOD is somewhat bitchy it's because it is. You don't have to like every score, but thats slandering those films is probably a step too far. And Rich that is sad.

You're agreeing that most scores have skippable tracks, yet when anyone else points that out about 70s/80s Williams, they're somehow slandering them? At no point in this thread has anyone denigrated any of your favourites beyond stating exactly what you just did. (and my criticisms are solely based on my lack of interest in that era of music, and while you may find that sad, it's my problem, not yours).

Read my thread in context with the threads that follow and maybe you'll see where I am going, slandering wasn't my choice of words but I think its somewhat accurate.

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There was a very distinct change in JW's style of writing following his success of Schindler's List that really didn't jive with me. He chose to abandon bombast and sweeping epic flair for more complex pieces. One of the staples of JW's scores before this period was that his melodies could be whistled or hummed without much effort from the memory of the listener. It took several listens to Lost World before I even could recall the interpolations of key and tone in that score. All of the elements of his other scores were there, but style & substance were subdued for the sake of complexity and being evocative.

I was very pleased to hear a return to his familiar style in TPM, even though he continued with a more pastoral and cerebral palette...it was a far more sophisticated and mature score than had been done for SW, but it was still in the vein of high adventure. In other words, it was a good listen and a relief for this JW fan who thought he'd heard the last of JW blasting those power chords.

Mr. K

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There was a very distinct change in JW's style of writing following his success of Schindler's List that really didn't jive with me. He chose to abandon bombast and sweeping epic flair for more complex pieces.

Mr. K

Hmmmm. Is it possible that the switch from bombast and epic to move complex scores reflects the similar changing sensibilities of his favourite director?

I don't mean that flippantly...I'm wondering if there really is a correlation there...i.e. did Wiliams scores change to suit Spielberg's evolving style and sensibilities, or whether it was William's natural maturation and evolution as a composer. This seems like such an obvious observation I'm sure it must have been discussed here before. As more of a listener, than expert on Williams, I really don't know.

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There was a very distinct change in JW's style of writing following his success of Schindler's List that really didn't jive with me. He chose to abandon bombast and sweeping epic flair for more complex pieces.

Mr. K

Hmmmm. Is it possible that the switch from bombast and epic to move complex scores reflects the similar changing sensibilities of his favourite director?

I don't mean that flippantly...I'm wondering if there really is a correlation there...i.e. did Wiliams scores change to suit Spielberg's evolving style and sensibilities, or whether it was William's natural maturation and evolution as a composer. This seems like such an obvious observation I'm sure it must have been discussed here before. As more of a listener, than expert on Williams, I really don't know.

Oh definitely. It was for sure around the time that Spielberg began to fancy himself a history professor. I suppose it is good and right that both SS & JW's work took a more mature tone- would have been artistic stagnation if they hadn't. I just wasn't ready to grow up with them yet.

Mr. K

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  • 5 years later...

Images (1972)

 

Not because JW didn't make a great job... just because I don't like the mood.

 

I recently tried to watch the movie, just to try to understand the subject a little bit more... and sorry for you, but I've stopped it after few minutes.

 

I get it all... no need to watch it entirely! :lol:

 

Schizo movie with Schizo music... That's right!... perfect match!  Nice little experimental movie of the 70s that perfectly fits his decade! Super!

 

But almost 50 years later.... am I on the mood everyday to listen that?

 

The answer is: NO. :mellow:

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Ok. Now I've got the expanded 2-disc set, I'm warming to HOOK, so now the only JW score that I have an active dislike of, is SCHINDLER'S LIST.

I just don't "get" it. It leaves me cold.

I really can't say anything else, about this.

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3 hours ago, Bespin said:

Images (1972)

 

Not because JW didn't make a great job... just because I don't like the mood.

 

I recently tried to watch the movie, just to try to understand the subject a little bit more... and sorry for you, but I've stopped it after few minutes.

 

I get it all... no need to watch it entirely! :lol:

 

Schizo movie with Schizo music... That's right!... perfect match!  Nice little experimental movie of the 70s that perfectly fits his decade! Super!

 

But almost 50 years later.... am I on the mood everyday to listen that?

 

The answer is: NO. :mellow:

 

It's a shame that you don't like IMAGES, Bes. Perhaps if  you look upon if as a percussion concerto, with strings, as JW has often hinted, you might like it. It's definitely his least accessible score (it's his BITCHES BREW :lol:), but if you stick with it, you might like it. 

Btw, when did you first hear IMAGES, and how long had you been listening to JW music, at that time?

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2 minutes ago, Richard said:

Btw, when did you first hear IMAGES, and how long had you been listening to JW music, at that time?

 

 I would like to call my lawyer. :)

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Images is just not designed to a listenable score from start to finish.  However, I think Blood Moon is top-notch for repeated listens.  It should have been on the Lockhart album.  

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5 hours ago, Richard said:

Ok. Now I've got the expanded 2-disc set, I'm warming to HOOK, so now the only JW score that I have an active dislike of, is SCHINDLER'S LIST.

I just don't "get" it. It leaves me cold.

I really can't say anything else, about this.

 

Remembrances is a track to be appreciated when in the right mood. The rest of the score feels so inaccessible to me.

 

Same sort of thing goes to a lesser extent with Angela's Ashes. I like the main theme and Back to America, but otherwise it feels such a serious, and day I say pretentious score.

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24 minutes ago, Richard said:

You have a singular wit, Bes.

When did you first hear IMAGES? Don't wait for the translation, answer me now!

 

Okay, okay, okay... I never really listened to Images from the begining to the end...

 

But it's on Spotify, one day... maybe!

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That's not what I asked, but...I'll tell you the reason why I asked.

I bought the boot, in November, 1979. By that time I'd bought (in order of purchase) 

THE TOWERING INFERNO

EARTHQUAKE

JAWS

CINDERELLA LIBERTY

THE MISSOURI BREAKS

STAR WARS

CE3K

THE FURY

JAWS 2

SUPERMAN

DRACULA

PENELOPE

and THE EIGER SANCTION

so I was well into JW's diversity. Also, I'd listened to CE3K, and upon its first playing, and had decided that he'd never composed a better score, and that he never will. On this, I am yet to be proven wrong.  Maybe this somehow prepared me for IMAGES.

You might have been a recent listener to IMAGES, which could mean that maybe you weren't prepared, for it. Personally, I took to IMAGES, like a duck to water.

Of course, nobody can force you to listen to a score that you don't like, but I hope that you can, at least appreciate both BLOOD MOON, and IN SEARCH OF UNICORNS. 

We'll skip THE KILLING OF MARCEL, for now :)

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2 hours ago, Richard said:

(...) You might have been a recent listener to IMAGES, which could mean that maybe you weren't prepared, (...)

 

I understand, yes I'm a recent listener of Images... the first album of JW I bought was the Star Trilogy CD (1990)... :blush2:

 

For years I had difficulties with all pre-Star Wars stuff... So I learned and learned.. but I must admit, I passed over Images very quickly, too quickly maybe...

 

One day will return to it, I swear!

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The lost World

The Last Jedi

 

2 hours ago, Bespin said:

 

I understand, yes I'm a recent listener of Images... the first album of JW I bought was the Star Trilogy CD (1990)... :blush2:

 

For years I had difficulties with all pre-Star Wars stuff... So I learned and learned.. but I must admit, I passed over Images very quickly, too quickly maybe...

 

One day will return to it, I swear!

Maybe watching the film (that is just being released in a wonderful Bluray) helps?

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