The one John Williams score everyone seems to love that you just don't get...

[publicist 4,643]

can you please explain that, preferably with music examples?

How can anyone not hear the basic STAR WARS theme in there? Save for a few notes it's modelled on the same melodic pattern - he just changed the idiom to a SWAN LAKE-romantic setting.

[filmmusic 1,825]

can you please explain that, preferably with music examples?

How can anyone not hear the basic STAR WARS theme in there? Save for a few notes it's modelled on the same melodic pattern - he just changed the idiom to a SWAN LAKE-romantic setting.

That's what I've said:

"They share common motifs and rhythmic gestures"

but we have to be careful with what words we choose to use:

to say the one is the reverse of the other, is not the case.

Musicology has its own terminology and rules, and this is something very specific, which simply doesn't apply here..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrograde_%28music%29

A musical line which is the reverse of a previously or simultaneously stated line is said to be its retrograde

(top right: retrograde )

unless he used the word reverse more freely and aesthetically, and not with the precise musicological meaning of the word..

ohhh.. anyway...

[Richard Penna 3,680]

I recently realised that generally no JW scores before the mid 80s (Temple) really click with me, therefore frankly most of the scores considered untouchable classics would be on my list.

I'm sure they are technically dazzling, but emotionally, I really don't get anything from them.

EBS

Jaws

E.T.

CE3K

That, and staggering overexposure.

--

Where more recent scores are concerned, I'm not familiar with unreleased material from The Lost World, and outside of the full 'Rescuing Sarah', I don't really get why this score is so sought after.

[A24 4,331]

You don't get anything from the tender E.T. and Me? Your heart must be made of stone, Penna.

How about the flute passage in Princess Leia's Theme? All emotionless?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Rubbish!

[Ollie 1,059]

Meco's CE3K disco version is superior to Williams version.

I love Miles On Wheels.

I think Earthquake would benefit from a complete release, minus those damn sound effects.

[Andy 4,118]

I'm actually really digging the CE3K disco version.  First time hearing it.

Then you absolutely must check out the orchestral version of that arrangement here. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Royal-Philharmonic-Orchestra-Legends-Williams/dp/B00149BCWQ

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

You don't get anything from the tender E.T. and Me? Your heart must be made of stone, Penna.

How about the flute passage in Princess Leia's Theme? All emotionless?

The softer passages in E.T. have always left me rather cold. And I consider Leia's theme to be one of the most beautiful cues in the history of music.

[Nick1Ø66 4,710]

Temple of Doom.

I never understood the over-the-top love for this score. Yeah, it's a strong, competent score from Williams, but to me there's nothing that particularly sets it apart from the other TWO Indy scores, which I actually enjoy more. But perhaps I'm letting my feelings about the film cloud my judgement.

I frankly think the fact that so much of the music was unavailable for so long is a big part of why this score has achieved the almost legendary status it has.

[Quintus 5,399]

Indeed.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Both of you are blithering idiots!

[publicist 4,643]

Temple of Doom.

I never understood the over-the-top love for this score. Yeah, it's a strong, competent score from Williams, but to me there's nothing that particularly sets it apart from the other TWO Indy scores, which I actually enjoy more. But perhaps I'm letting my feelings about the film cloud my judgement.

I frankly think the fact that so much of the music was unavailable for so long is a big part of why this score has achieved the almost legendary status it has.

So we are at the usual point of someone liking the blue trouser more than the brown trouser who seeks to back up his choice by totally unconvincing arguments.

So let me ask, apart from being ethnically and tonally totally different from the much less frantic and colorful INDY I and III, what possibly should or could have set it even more apart?

[filmmusic 1,825]

Temple of Doom.

I never understood the over-the-top love for this score. Yeah, it's a strong, competent score from Williams, but to me there's nothing that particularly sets it apart from the other TWO Indy scores, which I actually enjoy more. But perhaps I'm letting my feelings about the film cloud my judgement.

I frankly think the fact that so much of the music was unavailable for so long is a big part of why this score has achieved the almost legendary status it has.

So we are at the usual point of someone liking the blue trouser more than the brown trouser who seeks to back up his choice by totally unconvincing arguments.

So let me ask, apart from being ethnically and tonally totally different from the much less frantic and colorful INDY I and III, what possibly should or could have set it even more apart?

well, the music for the ceremony alone, does it for me and sets it apart from the others.

I love that piece!!

[Richard Penna 3,680]

You don't get anything from the tender E.T. and Me? Your heart must be made of stone, Penna.

How about the flute passage in Princess Leia's Theme? All emotionless?

More the score in general (E.T.). I returned to the original 1982 release last month and did rather like those arrangements.

Leia's Theme? Hmm. It's more a case of a total disinterest in the film, and therefore the underscore has to particularly click to appeal to me. In this case, it doesn't.

Temple of Doom.

I

never understood the over-the-top love for this score. Yeah, it's a

strong, competent score from Williams, but to me there's nothing that

particularly sets it apart from the other TWO Indy scores, which I

actually enjoy more. But perhaps I'm letting my feelings about the film

cloud my judgement.

I frankly think the fact that so

much of the music was unavailable for so long is a big part of why this

score has achieved the almost legendary status it has.

Yes, I think that's a large part of it. Music that is unobtainable is really valuable, regardless of whether or not it's that remarkable.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the extra material on the Lincoln FYC promo was omitted for a reason beyond JW being modest. (not singling out this score - it applies to everything)

[Quintus 5,399]

Temple of Doom.

I never understood the over-the-top love for this score. Yeah, it's a strong, competent score from Williams, but to me there's nothing that particularly sets it apart from the other TWO Indy scores, which I actually enjoy more. But perhaps I'm letting my feelings about the film cloud my judgement.

I frankly think the fact that so much of the music was unavailable for so long is a big part of why this score has achieved the almost legendary status it has.

So we are at the usual point of someone liking the blue trouser more than the brown trouser who seeks to back up his choice by totally unconvincing arguments.

Yeah, it's quite similar to the other usual point where someone comes along who disagrees with a previous opinion and takes issue with it or something like that.

[Brónach 1,302]

So we are at the usual point of someone liking the blue trouser more than the brown trouser who seeks to back up his choice by totally unconvincing arguments.

Yeah, it's quite similar to the other usual point where someone comes along who disagrees with a previous opinion and takes issue with it or something like that.

You know, that was a dumb reaction. It's perfectly ok to take issue with opinions, despite what some people want to believe. Saying the opposite is not understanding what is an opinion in the first place.

[Quintus 5,399]

Nah, you just missed the point yet again, Chaac. You can take issue with opinions all you like, but people are inclined to be less interested in your own if you regard there's with snide sarcasm and veiled mockery.

[Brónach 1,302]

You keep saying different things to what you mean, so don't blame me if I miss the point.

As for mockery, eh, it's a forum on the Internet.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Star Wars, all of them

Raiders Of The Lost Ark

Harry Potter And The Sorcerer's Stone

The Adventures Of Tintin

[Quintus 5,399]

As for mockery, eh, it's a forum on the Internet.

True, and you're such a gormless cretin!

[Brónach 1,302]

As for mockery, eh, it's a forum on the Internet.

True, and you're such a gormless cretin!

Nah, you just don't like to have your opinions questioned And you're the first one who prides himself in saying what he thinks bluntly, like you once said. But if it's against your opinion, then it can't be!

[Quintus 5,399]

Sigh, where was my own opinion challenged anyway? I don't even know what you're banging on about to be quite honest. All I did was reply to pub.

Again, you seem to misunderstand. Which is fine, so long as it doesn't involve your harassing me.

[MSM 126]

Jaws, and Harry Potter PoA

[Nick1Ø66 4,710]

Temple of Doom.

I never understood the over-the-top love for this score. Yeah, it's a strong, competent score from Williams, but to me there's nothing that particularly sets it apart from the other TWO Indy scores, which I actually enjoy more. But perhaps I'm letting my feelings about the film cloud my judgement.

I frankly think the fact that so much of the music was unavailable for so long is a big part of why this score has achieved the almost legendary status it has.

So we are at the usual point of someone liking the blue trouser more than the brown trouser who seeks to back up his choice by totally unconvincing arguments.

Pretty amazing that you could pack three false assumptions into one sentence!: 1) That I'm trying to "back up" my choice; 2) That I'm trying to convince you of anything and; 3) That I'm making an argument.

de gustibus non est disputandum

[Ollie 1,059]

Temple of Doom.

I frankly think the fact that so much of the music was unavailable for so long is a big part of why this score has achieved the almost legendary status it has.

That's a false assumption to make.

Quite a few of us fell in love with the music upon our first viewing of the film and would have loved to have walked into a record store and seen a double LP on the shelf.

The last 5 years have seen a wealth of excellent film music I've been waiting for, that I wanted when I first saw the film and realized the score was good / great at that time.

The Adventures Of Tintin

Yeah same here, rather predictable, by the numbers score that sounds like a mishmash of previous works, dissapointing and not worth an Oscar nod.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

And just to drill down on ET and things I don't get.

"Far From Home/ET Alone" is the best track out of ET. Much more so than that 16 minutes of sparkly "LOOK I CAN CRASH CYMBALS AND MAKE SPARKLY CHIMES GO CHIME" fluff at the end everyone gets off on. I don't get that.

[Trent B 337]

Here are my picks...

Superman: The Movie

-Yes there are some parts that are good but personally the score tends to drag in A LOT of places.

Harry Potter (any)

-Another set of scores I've tried to get into but can't. Yet a lot (if not most) members here clamor over them.

Regarding Attack Of The Clones I know it's not really a favorite among these parts but IMHO the new previously unreleased music from the games (especially TOR) has really helped the listening experience. At least it has for me and I've grown to like it a lot more now thanks to the music from the games.

[Richard Penna 3,680]

With AotC, for me it isn't even about the listening experience - it's more that I find what's on the album dull.

In addition to my previous selections, I'd add Lincoln. I just don't get this score all - I've given many samples multiple listens, and I really don't get what supposedly elevates it above all the other efforts this year.

[publicist 4,643]

Temple of Doom.

I never understood the over-the-top love for this score. Yeah, it's a strong, competent score from Williams, but to me there's nothing that particularly sets it apart from the other TWO Indy scores, which I actually enjoy more. But perhaps I'm letting my feelings about the film cloud my judgement.

I frankly think the fact that so much of the music was unavailable for so long is a big part of why this score has achieved the almost legendary status it has.

So we are at the usual point of someone liking the blue trouser more than the brown trouser who seeks to back up his choice by totally unconvincing arguments.

Pretty amazing that you could pack three false assumptions into one sentence!: 1) That I'm trying to "back up" my choice; 2) That I'm trying to convince you of anything and; 3) That I'm making an argument.

de gustibus non est disputandum

It's not amazing and of course you did exactly that. The question is not so much that you did, but to quote myself: let me ask, apart from being ethnically and tonally totally different from the much less frantic and colorful INDY I and III, what possibly should or could have set it even more apart?

[Nick1Ø66 4,710]

Temple of Doom.

I never understood the over-the-top love for this score. Yeah, it's a strong, competent score from Williams, but to me there's nothing that particularly sets it apart from the other TWO Indy scores, which I actually enjoy more. But perhaps I'm letting my feelings about the film cloud my judgement.

I frankly think the fact that so much of the music was unavailable for so long is a big part of why this score has achieved the almost legendary status it has.

So we are at the usual point of someone liking the blue trouser more than the brown trouser who seeks to back up his choice by totally unconvincing arguments.

Pretty amazing that you could pack three false assumptions into one sentence!: 1) That I'm trying to "back up" my choice; 2) That I'm trying to convince you of anything and; 3) That I'm making an argument.

de gustibus non est disputandum

It's not amazing and of course you did exactly that. The question is not so much that you did, but to quote myself: let me ask, apart from being ethnically and tonally totally different from the much less frantic and colorful INDY I and III, what possibly should or could have set it even more apart?

This is where I stopped reading:

but to quote myself:

[gkgyver 1,645]

ET.

Close Encounters, Towering Inferno.

In Close Encounters, Williams comes as close to channeling the universe as he ever did. That score transcendends films and film scores, and not only in a musical way like other JW scores, but in a, for the lack of a better word, spiritual way.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Close Encounters, Towering Inferno.

In Close Encounters, Williams comes as close to channeling the universe as he ever did. That score transcendends films and film scores, and not only in a musical way like other JW scores, but in a, for the lack of a better word, spiritual way.

Well said. If there was just one Williams score I could take to a desert island, it would be CE3K.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Temple of Doom.

I frankly think the fact that so much of the music was unavailable for so long is a big part of why this score has achieved the almost legendary status it has.

That's a false assumption to make.

Quite a few of us fell in love with the music upon our first viewing of the film and would have loved to have walked into a record store and seen a double LP on the shelf.

The last 5 years have seen a wealth of excellent film music I've been waiting for, that I wanted when I first saw the film and realized the score was good / great at that time.

>>The Adventures Of Tintin

Yeah same here, rather predictable, by the numbers score that sounds like a mishmash of previous works, dissapointing and not worth an Oscar nod.

Don't think my opinion has ever fallen exactly in line with anyone else before. Could not agree more.

*Leaving the rest of that quote in because messing with it is a disaster*

[Uni 306]

I'm with you too. Tintin is one of the prime examples to me of a recent Williams score that someone else could've done. Easily.

That said, when it comes to this kind of thing I've always found myself wondering if I'm missing something that other people are hearing. Maybe I was distracted the first time I listened to the score. Maybe I don't like it as much as I would've if the film had been better. Maybe I'm just dense. Maybe. . . .

But then you read a thread like this that makes it unequivocally clear that everyone has individual proclivities that make them who they are. And those proclivities lead them to like certain styles and works of music, to dislike others, and to feel ambivalent about still others. And no two people are apt to have exactly the same ideas about what makes a good score as opposed to what doesn't work.

And should it be any other way? Would the world be better if we all adored everything we ever heard? Or if we all had exactly the same likes and dislikes? I don't think so. There's a lot to be said for variety—not just variety of style, but variety of opinion.

I don't think we should be made to feel obligated to defend our reasoning (though we may choose to do so anyway). It ought to be enough for me to say I love a certain score, and don't care for another. That doesn't make me right or wrong. That makes me me.

- Uni

[Hlao-roo 389]

That said, when it comes to this kind of thing I've always found myself wondering if I'm missing something that other people are hearing. Maybe I was distracted the first time I listened to the score. Maybe I don't like it as much as I would've if the film had been better. Maybe I'm just dense. Maybe. . . .

But then you read a thread like this that makes it unequivocally clear that everyone has individual proclivities that make them who they are. And those proclivities lead them to like certain styles and works of music, to dislike others, and to feel ambivalent about still others. And no two people are apt to have exactly the same ideas about what makes a good score as opposed to what doesn't work.

I don't think everyone approaches musical appreciation with the same degree of humility you do, Scott. If, as you say, my opinion on a particular score is (part of) what "makes me me," then it is all too natural that I regard an opinion that jostles my own as a personal attack that demands commensurate response.

[Nick1Ø66 4,710]

That said, when it comes to this kind of thing I've always found myself wondering if I'm missing something that other people are hearing. Maybe I was distracted the first time I listened to the score. Maybe I don't like it as much as I would've if the film had been better. Maybe I'm just dense. Maybe. . . .

But then you read a thread like this that makes it unequivocally clear that everyone has individual proclivities that make them who they are. And those proclivities lead them to like certain styles and works of music, to dislike others, and to feel ambivalent about still others. And no two people are apt to have exactly the same ideas about what makes a good score as opposed to what doesn't work.

I don't think everyone approaches musical appreciation with the same degree of humility you do, Scott. If, as you say, my opinion on a particular score is (part of) what "makes me me," then it is all too natural that I regard an opinion that jostles my own as a personal attack that demands commensurate response.

Sorry, but regarding an opinion other than your own as a "personal attack" is not natural, and responding as if you've been "personally attacked" is also not natural. And it's not a good way to go through life. If someone attacks you while stating their opinion, that's one thing...but an opinion different from your is not in and of itself a "personal attack."

Uni is of course correct in what he says above, and blustery demands that people defend or explain their opinions on art are absurd. If someone wants to explain why they feel a certain way about a piece of music, fair enough, but attempting to browbeat them into justifying why they feel how they feel, and why you're right and they're wrong, is as pointless as arguing why your favourite colour is better than theirs.

Disagreeing about music is of course normal, and sites like this would be boring if everyone agreed. But taking a disagreement on matters of art as a personal attack, and responding like it's a personal attack (or initiating one), is a big part of why message boards about film and music are often as vitriolic as they are.

[Quintus 5,399]

It all gets a bit tiring and just boring after years and years, even to this instigator. Maybe I'm just feeling the JWFan doldrums again.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

This is the most pathetic bitching thread we've had in a long time.

it's hilarious and yet sad that every iconic John Williams score is on someones whiney ass bitch list.

Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Superman, ESB, Raider, E.T., ROTJ, TOD. all the greats from the John's masterful 10 year period from 1975 to 1984.

Everyone of these scores is above reproach.

You don't like them? Fine, but you're dislike doesn't change the fact that each and everyone of these scores is a masteripiece.

Each is exciting, emotional, and thrilling, a few of them actually are game changers.

Yes John has scores that are strong, and some are weak, not every score is a home run. Sometimes he uses musical choices that don't fit the sensibilities of the folks here. Uni says anyone could have written The Adventures of Tintin, really? anyone? The score is so John William, again it might not be to your liking but the score screams John Williams, actually it scream Johnny Williams. No current film composer would have gone where John went. I'm not sure that they could or would have dared to try.

I find it funny that so many here are easily accepting of the sci fi, or fantasy but yet the contemporary sounds of the 70's are so off putting. Hogwarts and Middle Earth are easy to swallow but that stuff from the 70's can't be real can it?

Then there is Schindler's List. What's not to get about Schindler's List, it's a lovely sad score remembering the Holocaust. What's to get. It's not an intellectual endeavor, it's a score that's meant to be felt. But to be felt would suppose the listener has the ability to feel, and I'm beginning to wonder if some here have that ability.

Anyway carry on with your bitch fest, I'm going to go find my inner John Williams, he want's me to play The City Sleeps, and all will be well.

[publicist 4,643]

Uni is of course correct in what he says above, and blustery demands that people defend or explain their opinions on art are absurd. If someone wants to explain why they feel a certain way about a piece of music, fair enough, but attempting to browbeat them into justifying why they feel how they feel, and why you're right and they're wrong, is as pointless as arguing why your favourite colour is better than theirs.

I find your behaviour incredibly whiny and totally uncalled for (especially after posting your shtick on an open discussion forum). Sadly, it has become a generally accepted norm that any kind of debate that isn't cuddly-cozy is somehow unhealthy and 'unbecoming' for internet messageboards (or politics/culture and whatever) so i shut up.

[Bellosh 3,403]

Hook for me.

[Nick1Ø66 4,710]

so i shut up.

Finally, something we can agree on.

Oh, and if you want a genuine reply from someone to something you say, and wish to be taken seriously, perhaps next time don't start off your comment with something like this:

So we are at the usual point of someone liking the blue trouser more than the brown trouser who seeks to back up his choice by totally unconvincing arguments.

[Sandor 797]

Joey, I totally agree with you. I'm as big a fan as any on this board. I truly love most of John Williams' work. The scores I don't love, I simply like. I presented TTI because I like the score, but haven't found the love I notice others have for it. That may change over time. I was hoping this thread would show me facets of the score I hadn't yet percieved. But instead - like you said - first rate masterpieces are being slandered and ridiculed. Hmmm... That wasn't really what I intended.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

and you notice Sandor/Roald(comfort name) that I don't criticize you. But because you created this thread I went back and listened to the Towering Inferno and Earthquake, and I had an absolute blast, so I thank you.

everyone I urge you listen to the City Sleeps.

this is John Williams giving us greatness.

[The Dark Trilogy 39]

This is the most pathetic bitching thread we've had in a long time.

it's hilarious and yet sad that every iconic John Williams score is on someones whiney ass bitch list.

Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Superman, ESB, Raider, E.T., ROTJ, TOD. all the greats from the John's masterful 10 year period from 1975 to 1984.

Everyone of these scores is above reproach.

You don't like them? Fine, but you're dislike doesn't change the fact that each and everyone of these scores is a masteripiece.

Each is exciting, emotional, and thrilling, a few of them actually are game changers.

Yes John has scores that are strong, and some are weak, not every score is a home run. Sometimes he uses musical choices that don't fit the sensibilities of the folks here. Uni says anyone could have written The Adventures of Tintin, really? anyone? The score is so John William, again it might not be to your liking but the score screams John Williams, actually it scream Johnny Williams. No current film composer would have gone where John went. I'm not sure that they could or would have dared to try.

I find it funny that so many here are easily accepting of the sci fi, or fantasy but yet the contemporary sounds of the 70's are so off putting. Hogwarts and Middle Earth are easy to swallow but that stuff from the 70's can't be real can it?

Then there is Schindler's List. What's not to get about Schindler's List, it's a lovely sad score remembering the Holocaust. What's to get. It's not an intellectual endeavor, it's a score that's meant to be felt. But to be felt would suppose the listener has the ability to feel, and I'm beginning to wonder if some here have that ability.

Anyway carry on with your bitch fest, I'm going to go find my inner John Williams, he want's me to play The City Sleeps, and all will be well.

Joey, you are absolutely right. I cannot believe what I read in this thread, either. Amen!

[Quintus 5,399]

everyone I urge you listen to the City Sleeps.

this is John Williams giving us greatness.

Done. I hadn't heard that before, so thanks. It was quite nice.

[Nick1Ø66 4,710]

This talk about people being shocked about anything negative about Williams being said in this thread is kind of like saying "I'm SHOCKED to find gambling going on here"!

Someone starts a thread which, by definition, would involve negative comments about a William's score, then people get upset when the thread involves negative comments about a William's score?

If other people like it, and you don't, then by definition you're going to have something negative to say about it, so I don't see how anyone can be shocked by what people are saying in this thread. Yeah, a lot of these scores are universally regarded as masterpieces, but that doesn't mean they connect with everyone, and people who don't like them aren't "wrong", they just feel differently than the majority do about it.

The extent that people get personally offended and worked into a frenzy because someone just can't seem to understand why X score is so great, no matter how much you try to beat your opinion into them, is pretty astounding.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

This talk about people being shocked about anything negative about Williams being said in this thread is kind of like saying "I'm SHOCKED to find gambling going on here"!

Someone starts a thread which, by definition, would involve negative comments about a William's score, then people get upset when the thread involves negative comments about a William's score?

If other people like it, and you don't, then by definition you're going to have something negative to say about it, so I don't see how anyone can be shocked by what people are saying in this thread. Yeah, a lot of these scores are universally regarded as masterpieces, but that doesn't mean they connect with everyone, and people who don't like them aren't "wrong", they just feel differently than the majority do about it.

The extent that people get personally offended and worked into a frenzy because someone just can't seem to understand why X score is so great, no matter how much you try to beat your opinion into them, is pretty astounding.

I didn't tell anyone they were wrong.

[Nick1Ø66 4,710]

This talk about people being shocked about anything negative about Williams being said in this thread is kind of like saying "I'm SHOCKED to find gambling going on here"!

Someone starts a thread which, by definition, would involve negative comments about a William's score, then people get upset when the thread involves negative comments about a William's score?

If other people like it, and you don't, then by definition you're going to have something negative to say about it, so I don't see how anyone can be shocked by what people are saying in this thread. Yeah, a lot of these scores are universally regarded as masterpieces, but that doesn't mean they connect with everyone, and people who don't like them aren't "wrong", they just feel differently than the majority do about it.

The extent that people get personally offended and worked into a frenzy because someone just can't seem to understand why X score is so great, no matter how much you try to beat your opinion into them, is pretty astounding.

I didn't tell anyone they were wrong.

And I didn't say you did.

[Quintus 5,399]

And then you have the endlessly chronic publicist who's own cranky worldly view has him convinced that any non-fawning of Williams will be met with the collective cotton wool and bubbles defence, which is just so bloody tedious and absolutely bullshit that I have to wonder why he still isn't on my ignore list yet.

[publicist 4,643]

Maybe it's because you spam on every second thread here with a vengeance while i only post occasionally. But it's nice to see that little still can go a long way.