karelm

John Williams scoring all three new Star Wars films!!

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As for Blume; he isn't even top ten material, although for some reason he's convinced himself that he is, as you can see. He actually quit for a while last year and nobody really noticed tbh.

LOL That was like the biggest cry-baby act ever witnessed on this board..! ROTFLMAO

But I don't have to worry about hurting Blume's feelings anymore 'cause I know he will just 'scroll past' my comments. Hurrah! :woop:

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I think some folks here need to either

a) grow a thicker skin

Or

b) lighten the fuck up

I say this as someone who's idea of a forum is an online pub. A place for banter, good humour, intelligent debate, and the occasional brawl. I don't visit as much here as I should, but on its best days - JWfan fulfils all of that, plus some more.

I like Blume. He's something of an iconoclast, and forums need that. Nothing worse than fanboy GroupThink. I admit he doesn't always make the grade (here's one example) - but when the timing's right, his posts make for a decent laugh.

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I think some folks here need to either

a) grow a thicker skin

Or

b) lighten the fuck up

I say this as someone who's idea of a forum is an online pub. A place for banter, good humour, intelligent debate, and the occasional brawl. I don't visit as much here as I should, but on its best days - JWfan fulfils all of that, plus some more.

I like Blume. He's something of an iconoclast, and forums need that. Nothing worse than fanboy GroupThink. I admit he doesn't always make the grade (here's one example) - but when the timing's right, his posts make for a decent laugh.

Don't worry; Blume is getting exactly the kind of reaction to his provocative posts that he's aiming for.

And I'm the fool falling for it and living up to it. ;)

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Didn't have to do with his mom's illness. Yeah really fun stuff Sandor.

Your probably thinking of me because I got pissed and left because of similar bullshit that's happening now.

Hmmm no... I kinda remember he had a problem with moderating issues and shit like that.

If it had anything to do with his mom I must have missed that and I will retract my comment and apologize.

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I don't think this is some random comment from JW to appease concert-goers. This isn't the offhand "I'll try" remark. Do you really think nobody has already approached JW about this project? He was GL's most important collaborator, certainly something LFL head Kathy Kennedy understands with all her years producing for Spielberg. I think the odds that JW name is on the contracts is far more likely than Giacchino's. One of the first things they do is assemble their production team- JW would be on the priority list.

The job is his, the only factor making the suits at Disney nervous is his age. Unless he is unable to continue due to health or passing, Giacchino is stuck waiting in the wings, at the most will be involved in a "William Ross" capacity. As for JW, the comment sounds like he's very excited to get back in the game and has already talked to GL. Why GL & not JJ? Established personal & professional relationship. As powerful as JJ is, GL is far better choice to reel JW in.

Mr. K

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If Lee has an issue with me that's between he and I and his ignore button. No need to have forum battling about which ego is right or wrong. It's no fun.

So lets get back to the discussion, controversial as it is.

If you think I'm being too harsh saying Johns comments were not very gracious, because John is always soft apple I think you are falling for the soft spoken public persona he conveys.

He works in Hollywood. He is part of the most cutthroat aspect of the film industry. Even more so than director and producer. There is one composer per film. And only a few films a year enjoy a full single composer who gets to work with an orchestra.

You can bet being passive and soft spoken is not how John or his representatives got him to the great position he enjoys today. It's a lovely fairy tale and easy to believe for the diehard fans...but it's just not how the industry has worked, works, or will work.

You gotta be a shark to survive as a light grip and there are dozens of those on a production. Let alone a composer of which there is one.

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I don't think this is some random comment from JW to appease concert-goers. This isn't the offhand "I'll try" remark. Do you really think nobody has already approached JW about this project? He was GL's most important collaborator, certainly something LFL head Kathy Kennedy understands with all her years producing for Spielberg. I think the odds that JW name is on the contracts is far more likely than Giacchino's. One of the first things they do is assemble their production team- JW would be on the priority list.

The job is his, the only factor making the suits at Disney nervous is his age. Unless he is unable to continue due to health or passing, Giacchino is stuck waiting in the wings, at the most will be involved in a "William Ross" capacity. As for JW, the comment sounds like he's very excited to get back in the game and has already talked to GL. Why GL & not JJ? Established personal & professional relationship. As powerful as JJ is, GL is far better choice to reel JW in.

Mr. K

I agree with you on this and find it the most hopeful and possible outcome. I hope it happens.

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Interesting that the same genius who was comparing JW to a "stalker" is now not so gracefully trying to walk it back by saying Williams is just being Hollywood tough. And all this because an ageing composer said to some fans he'd like to work with George again. Of course, this is the same clown who thinks he knows what's in JJ Abrams Star Wars contract to the letter and assures us all that there's no way Williams is scoring it.

Pretending you know how Hollywood works doesn't mean you do. Blume sounds like a kid who thinks he knows how things work in Hollywood and want to show us all how smart he is. Or someone trying to imitate how he thinks the grown ups talk...since he thinks being tough means being rude on a message board, he just kind of assumes it works the same way with big type folk in Hollywood. And that anyone who thinks Williams can be a decent person and still thrive in the big leagues must be naive.

These are your words Blume, don't run away from them now:

I do want to express my direct reaction to Williams' comments, unpopular as it might be:

It completely rubs me the wrong way.

The entire focus of the new Star Wars trilogy is to transition the franchise into the hands of a new generation. Even George "IT'S MINE, ALL MINE, I CAN DO WITH IT WHAT I CHOOSE" Lucas has stepped back and is handing it off to relatively younger people.

And here is John going "OH I CAN'T WAIT TO WORK ON IT!"

It just doesn't strike me as particularly classy, on several levels. Chiefly, he's not elegantly handing off a torch to future generations, he's not saying "I've done my bit for king and country, I'll let rising talent take a shot at it." He's basically muscling his way into screwing over anyone that may or may not be selected to score the film after him. Because now we know the old lovely man wanted to score it, and some youngin stole it from him.

Second the assumption that he will be involved comes off as arrogant. Yes, you are Star Wars John, but being a little modest about it would be so much more likable. Feign it, say "I'd love to work on it if I am invited to do so, but I'm also interested in hearing what fresh talent could do with Star Wars."

All in all It's a bit cringe worthy. It's like that stalker ex that just doesn't know when to quit. Everyone else is looking forward to the fresh direction, and he's still like "I'm gonna score it!"

You greedy son of a gun Johnny. I can see how you cleverly manipulated your way into screwing over Patrick Doyle with the whole Stepmom fiasco.

So being Hollywood tough also means that Williams is an old, classless, inelegant, arrogant, cringe worthy, greedy, manipulative stalker who likes to screw colleagues over? I wonder how he manipulated Spielberg into a 40 year collaboration!

And really looking forward to hearing your insiders insights on that whole messy Patrick Doyle situation that I'm sure you just know is true! Of course stalker Williams threw around his weight to screw over poor Patrick Doyle by getting him fired so he could get the plum project of composing the blockbuster "Stepmom" in between Saving Private Ryan and Star Wars! But perhaps your contacts at Bad Robot can look into it for us.

Got it Blume, you Hollywood guru you!

Ladies and Gentlemen, one of JWfan's "Top 5" posters.

EDIT: Oh, and Blume, whatever you think being a "Hollywood shark" means, it isn't. If you think Williams has to act like you describe to thrive in a competitive environment, you're wrong. Maybe you've worked in Hollywood, I don't know, but if you do you don't have any understanding about how things work in the leagues above you, and haven't learned much. So next time you want to personally malign the most respected film composer of all time, who probably changed the life of a good number of people on this board, why don't you do it at a forum that doesn't have his name on it. Or at least know WTF you're talking about if you do.

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If Lee has an issue with me that's between he and I and his ignore button. No need to have forum battling about which ego is right or wrong. It's no fun.

So lets get back to the discussion, controversial as it is.

If you think I'm being too harsh saying Johns comments were not very gracious, because John is always soft apple I think you are falling for the soft spoken public persona he conveys.

He works in Hollywood. He is part of the most cutthroat aspect of the film industry. Even more so than director and producer. There is one composer per film. And only a few films a year enjoy a full single composer who gets to work with an orchestra.

You can bet being passive and soft spoken is not how John or his representatives got him to the great position he enjoys today. It's a lovely fairy tale and easy to believe for the diehard fans...but it's just not how the industry has worked, works, or will work.

You gotta be a shark to survive as a light grip and there are dozens of those on a production. Let alone a composer of which there is one.

There are many, many in the industry who are very supportive, kind, humble, and generous. There are many others who are very cruel, sharks, too. It is simplistic and presumptuous to assume all are the same. Your comment here also broaches on the topic of what is the root of his success. I think on the list of reasons why he's made it big - his being a shark/hollywood type is not even in the list.

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If you think I'm being too harsh saying Johns comments were not very gracious, because John is always soft apple I think you are falling for the soft spoken public persona he conveys.

He works in Hollywood. He is part of the most cutthroat aspect of the film industry. Even more so than director and producer. There is one composer per film. And only a few films a year enjoy a full single composer who gets to work with an orchestra.

You can bet being passive and soft spoken is not how John or his representatives got him to the great position he enjoys today. It's a lovely fairy tale and easy to believe for the diehard fans...but it's just not how the industry has worked, works, or will work.

You gotta be a shark to survive as a light grip and there are dozens of those on a production. Let alone a composer of which there is one.

Yeah. I gotta admit it . . . you're probably right. It's fun to hope, dammit, but we all need to face a little reality here: JW's only been in the business for what, half a century? That's hardly enough time to build up a reputation. Word is the man's barely hanging on by his fingernails. After all, he came within a hair of having his score for Indy 4 rejected (I hear Desplat had the inside track to replace him). His representatives are out there as we speak trying to land him a decent job, but he just can't seem to get his foot in the door. There's just no getting around it: you've gotta be a shark if you want to keep working in the business after fifty years, even if you are the most popular, best-selling, and widely-sought-after composer in that business. John's just not the type.

You're right about the other part, too. We all know there can be multiple producers on a film, and there can even be multiple directors (especially if they're brothers!). But when it comes to composers, it's like Highlander: there can be only one! Unless, of course, you count Cloud Atlas, or The Changeling, or half the scores with Hans Zimmer's name on them, or many of the animated musicals produced by Disney—say, isn't Disney the one doing the new Star Wars movies. . . ?

Forget it. Everyone would be better off saving themselves the disappointment by just accepting the realities of the industry. Hell, if I know those Disney bastards, they've probably already offered the scoring job to one of the light grips. . . . ;)

- Uni

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I'm sure Patrick Doyle might have a tale or two about the "sharks" in Hollywood. ;)

I'm very pro-stomp-on-people-who-have-cancer, myself. ;)

(In all seriousness, as messy as that situation seemed, I would still like to think the most cynical interpretation of events isn't necessarily the most accurate one.)

I don't think this is some random comment from JW to appease concert-goers. This isn't the offhand "I'll try" remark. Do you really think nobody has already approached JW about this project? He was GL's most important collaborator, certainly something LFL head Kathy Kennedy understands with all her years producing for Spielberg. I think the odds that JW name is on the contracts is far more likely than Giacchino's. One of the first things they do is assemble their production team- JW would be on the priority list.

The job is his, the only factor making the suits at Disney nervous is his age. Unless he is unable to continue due to health or passing, Giacchino is stuck waiting in the wings, at the most will be involved in a "William Ross" capacity. As for JW, the comment sounds like he's very excited to get back in the game and has already talked to GL. Why GL & not JJ? Established personal & professional relationship. As powerful as JJ is, GL is far better choice to reel JW in.

Mr. K

Smart analysis, as is typical of you. I don't think it's an either-or, though. Serious, advanced discussions with Williams's team may very well be going on behind the scenes, but it still reads like a play to audience. (But again, I wasn't there.)

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Interesting that the same genius who was comparing JW to a "stalker" is now not so gracefully trying to walk it back by saying Williams is just being Hollywood tough. And all this because an ageing composer said to some fans he'd like to work with George again. Of course, this is the same clown who thinks he knows what's in JJ Abrams Star Wars contract to the letter and assures us all that there's no way Williams is scoring it.

Pretending you know how Hollywood works doesn't mean you do. Blume sounds like a kid who thinks he knows how things work in Hollywood and want to show us all how smart he is. Or someone trying to imitate how he thinks the grown ups talk...since he thinks being tough means being rude on a message board, he just kind of assumes it works the same way with big type folk in Hollywood. And that anyone who thinks Williams can be a decent person and still thrive in the big leagues must be naive.

First, Nick relax. Deep breath. You don't need to get your blood pressure that high and hurl personal insults to defend your point against me.

I enjoy getting a rise out of people (it gets you talking), but I don't enjoy you giving yourself a heart attack over my comments. That and it's no fun for anyone, especially me, when you make the arguments about me rather than the topic.

P.S. If you are really offended by the signature, consider this: even Koray who jumped to my defense earlier was once where you stand now, the last time I did the signature! I'm pretty sure I put Joey in the scroll past list last time just to spite him. You're new, and you're not familiar with me yet, so I can understand that you feel the signature is a sign of my being a terrible person. For what its worth, I think you can make a pretty solid addition around here, if you stick around long enough.

So let's look at the biggest mistake in this thread so far:

So being Hollywood tough also means that Williams is an old, classless, inelegant, arrogant, cringe worthy, greedy, manipulative stalker who likes to screw colleagues over?

I never said that. I did not even insulted John directly. I took issue with his comments and how they reflect on him in my eyes. Almost every highlighted red word is directed at his comments, not the man.

The only point I'd say my words were directed at John personally is the bit about Patrick Doyle. He used a similar "I would like to score it," tactic to replace a Patrick Doyle recovering from leukemia on Stepmom. And I mean those words.

But before you take issue with those particular insults to psychoanalyze me and tell me what I'm trying to say consider this:

Imagine you were solely responsible for a project or task and someone who is better than you came by and said "Oh I would like to do that!" and then proceeded to replace you on it. How would you feel?

Now imagine you may have the opportunity to work on a once in a lifetime project, a project with a great legacy that is being turned over to a new generation like yourself. Imagine the man who's already taken six shots at it says "Oh! I would love to do that!"

I would have much preferred John's comments convey a willingness and graciousness in giving others the opportunity to tackle one of the most incredible projects they could imagine.

Sometimes an important part of being the best is being willing to let others do what you want to do. It's unfortunate that John's comments do not convey that willingness. It's one of the most powerful things our leaders, elders, wise, and experienced can do for us.

Let's take it back to Star Wars. To an old, wise, experienced man who is the best at what he does. Did Yoda go fight the Emperor and Darth Vader for Luke? Even our greatest mythologies make it a point of showing the wise and all powerful wizard who steps aside for the rising youth.

I honestly don't think my disappointment is unwarranted.

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Interesting that the same genius who was comparing JW to a "stalker" is now not so gracefully trying to walk it back by saying Williams is just being Hollywood tough. And all this because an ageing composer said to some fans he'd like to work with George again. Of course, this is the same clown who thinks he knows what's in JJ Abrams Star Wars contract to the letter and assures us all that there's no way Williams is scoring it.

Pretending you know how Hollywood works doesn't mean you do. Blume sounds like a kid who thinks he knows how things work in Hollywood and want to show us all how smart he is. Or someone trying to imitate how he thinks the grown ups talk...since he thinks being tough means being rude on a message board, he just kind of assumes it works the same way with big type folk in Hollywood. And that anyone who thinks Williams can be a decent person and still thrive in the big leagues must be naive.

First, Nick relax. Deep breath. You don't need to get your blood pressure that high and hurl personal insults to defend your point against me.

I enjoy getting a rise out of people (it gets you talking), but I don't enjoy you giving yourself a heart attack over my comments. That and it's no fun for anyone, especially me, when you make the arguments about me rather than the topic.

P.S. If you are really offended by the signature, consider this: even Koray who jumped to my defense earlier was once where you stand now, the last time I did the signature! I'm pretty sure I put Joey in the scroll past list last time just to spite him. You're new, and you're not familiar with me yet, so I can understand that you feel the signature is a sign of my being a terrible person. For what its worth, I think you can make a pretty solid addition around here, if you stick around long enough.

So let's look at the biggest mistake in this thread so far:

S

o being Hollywood tough also means that Williams is an old, classless, inelegant, arrogant, cringe worthy, greedy, manipulative stalker who likes to screw colleagues over?

I never said that. I did not even insulted John directly. I took issue with his comments and how they reflect on him in my eyes. Almost every highlighted red word is directed at his comments, not the man.

The only point I'd say my words were directed at John personally is the bit about Patrick Doyle. He used a similar "I would like to score it," tactic to replace a Patrick Doyle recovering from leukemia on Stepmom. And I mean those words.

But before you take issue with those particular insults to psychoanalyze me and tell me what I'm trying to say consider this:

Imagine you were solely responsible for a project or task and someone who is better than you came by and said "Oh I would like to do that!" and then proceeded to replace you on it. How would you feel?

Now imagine you may have the opportunity to work on a once in a lifetime project, a project with a great legacy that is being turned over to a new generation like yourself. Imagine the man who's already taken six shots at it says "Oh! I would love to do that!"

I would have much preferred John's comments convey a willingness and graciousness in giving others the opportunity to tackle one of the most incredible projects they could imagine.

Sometimes an important part of being the best is being willing to let others do what you want to do. It's unfortunate that John's comments do not convey that willingness. It's one of the most powerful things our leaders, elders, wise, and experienced can do for us.

Let's take it back to Star Wars. To an old, wise, experienced man who is the best at what he does. Did Yoda go fight the Emperor and Darth Vader for Luke? Even our greatest mythologies make it a point of showing the wise and all powerful wizard who steps aside for the rising youth.

I honestly don't think my disappointment is unwarranted.

Um Mr. Beethoven, I know you would like to write a ninth symphony and such, but could you just be a man and let one of these guys write one instead...what, can't you hear me?

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That's not the best of comparisons. I would be ecstatic for John Williams writing another concerto or even a symphony. Writing music for ones self...that's an entirely different ball game from writing music for a product. Star Wars is a cultural icon in the process of transitioning to a new generation. As far as I know, Beethoven never sold his symphonies to Disney in the hopes that new people would take over and carry on its legacy.

But kudos for the incredibly well snuck in deaf joke. I laughed. ROTFLMAO



You're a bigger man than me Blume.

I had my fun, but the thread got out of hand. So I only did the sensible thing (at least I think it's sensible): restate and clarify my point [somewhat] less hyperbolically in the hopes that this time it produces better conversation!

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First of all, where were all the attacks on Blume coming from? They seemed totally uneccessary.

And Nick, I respect your opinions and think you're a cool guy. Just don't let yourself get riled up by some of the heated discussions here. They're never meant to be taken as serious personal attacks or anything. On that note, Blume's more "creative" projects (like the list) are good fun that adds relief to the sometimes overbearing intense debates here (which you can get easily sick of). JWFan is a place of both banter and insightful discussion. I may not have been here long, but I personally missed Blume when he left last year.

Interesting that the same genius who was comparing JW to a "stalker" is now not so gracefully trying to walk it back by saying Williams is just being Hollywood tough. And all this because an ageing composer said to some fans he'd like to work with George again. Of course, this is the same clown who thinks he knows what's in JJ Abrams Star Wars contract to the letter and assures us all that there's no way Williams is scoring it.

Pretending you know how Hollywood works doesn't mean you do. Blume sounds like a kid who thinks he knows how things work in Hollywood and want to show us all how smart he is. Or someone trying to imitate how he thinks the grown ups talk...since he thinks being tough means being rude on a message board, he just kind of assumes it works the same way with big type folk in Hollywood. And that anyone who thinks Williams can be a decent person and still thrive in the big leagues must be naive.

First, Nick relax. Deep breath. You don't need to get your blood pressure that high and hurl personal insults to defend your point against me.

I enjoy getting a rise out of people (it gets you talking), but I don't enjoy you giving yourself a heart attack over my comments. That and it's no fun for anyone, especially me, when you make the arguments about me rather than the topic.

P.S. If you are really offended by the signature, consider this: even Koray who jumped to my defense earlier was once where you stand now, the last time I did the signature! I'm pretty sure I put Joey in the scroll past list last time just to spite him. You're new, and you're not familiar with me yet, so I can understand that you feel the signature is a sign of my being a terrible person. For what its worth, I think you can make a pretty solid addition around here, if you stick around long enough.

So let's look at the biggest mistake in this thread so far:

So being Hollywood tough also means that Williams is an old, classless, inelegant, arrogant, cringe worthy, greedy, manipulative stalker who likes to screw colleagues over?

I never said that. I did not even insulted John directly. I took issue with his comments and how they reflect on him in my eyes. Almost every highlighted red word is directed at his comments, not the man.

The only point I'd say my words were directed at John personally is the bit about Patrick Doyle. He used a similar "I would like to score it," tactic to replace a Patrick Doyle recovering from leukemia on Stepmom. And I mean those words.

But before you take issue with those particular insults to psychoanalyze me and tell me what I'm trying to say consider this:

Imagine you were solely responsible for a project or task and someone who is better than you came by and said "Oh I would like to do that!" and then proceeded to replace you on it. How would you feel?

Now imagine you may have the opportunity to work on a once in a lifetime project, a project with a great legacy that is being turned over to a new generation like yourself. Imagine the man who's already taken six shots at it says "Oh! I would love to do that!"

I would have much preferred John's comments convey a willingness and graciousness in giving others the opportunity to tackle one of the most incredible projects they could imagine.

Sometimes an important part of being the best is being willing to let others do what you want to do. It's unfortunate that John's comments do not convey that willingness. It's one of the most powerful things our leaders, elders, wise, and experienced can do for us.

Let's take it back to Star Wars. To an old, wise, experienced man who is the best at what he does. Did Yoda go fight the Emperor and Darth Vader for Luke? Even our greatest mythologies make it a point of showing the wise and all powerful wizard who steps aside for the rising youth.

I honestly don't think my disappointment is unwarranted.

My problem with your argument is that I don't think Williams ever said the comment as a power move to establish dominance over the film. In a more public setting like a big media interview or an awards show, then maybe that could have been the intention. But this was a concert with a gathering of local fans. There was no press, no cameras, nothing to spread word of anything he said. The fact that karelm managed to tell us what happened was a happy coincidence. So I doubt there was ever any intention of pushing aside any competitors. He was just expressing his fondness for the franchise to his audience. It sounds like it's nothing more than that really.

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My problem with your argument is that I don't think Williams ever said the comment as a power move to establish dominance over the film. In a more public setting like a big media interview or an awards show, then maybe that could have been the intention. But this was a concert with a gathering of local fans. There was no press, no cameras, nothing to spread word of anything he said. The fact that karelm managed to tell us what happened was a happy coincidence. So I doubt there was ever any intention of pushing aside any competitors. He was just expressing his fondness for the franchise to his audience. It sounds like it's nothing more than that really.

But wouldn't you expect, as a public figure, that word would get out, and wouldn't you therefore pick your words more carefully? And besides even it if it is a small public gathering, the expressed sentiment is still not as gracious as could be.

I guess I just want a Yoda/Dumbledore/Gandalf Williams and am heartbroken that his comments aren't more...willing to let others take limelight.

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Bahahaha. I think you belong at FSM.

I'd advise some vitamin D.

Oh look, another no life jab! Keep 'em coming, Nick, at this rate I think you're the one that needs to get out more. It's a John Williams message board of all things, lighten up buttercup.

Nick66, take no notice of Koray. He's famously one of the board's most deluded members. You should see some of his old posts! But what's so bad about his signature? I'm using mobile view so didn't see anything but changing to desktop view I still see nothing??? As for Blume; he isn't even top ten material, although for some reason he's convinced himself that he is, as you can see. I was going to add "imo" at the end of that statement, but I happen to know for a fact I'm not the only who is turned off by his endlessly grandiloquent style. He actually quit for a while last year and nobody really noticed tbh.

Let me tell you Nick, you're off to a fairly good start here. You'll come out of the other end (of the JWFan baptism of fire) just fine if you stick around long enough. One tip though: it's probably best not to insult older posters here, as a newbie, when they have their bros waiting to jump to their defence. ;)

Am I famously the most deluded? Because I used to defend Zimmer to the death? What does that say about you if I think you're one of the top posters too? I don't take offense, because I know deep down you love me, Lee. I love all my JWFan brethren, or at least the ones I consider top posters ;)

There was a time Joey and I used to go at it in every thread, still love the man and respect his unique taste. Doesn't mean we still don't disagree over many things, though.

Nick here seems like the attention whore in the end with all his personal talk clouding the actual topics at hand, as you know we almost always keep at the forefront in our banter here. I'd rather debate children's cinema with Alex, honestly.

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God this thread turned to shit. Way to turn interesting comments made by the man who's the reason we're all here into a disaster of a thread. No wonder new people never stay...

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I appreciate the initiative on Blumenkohl's part to establish a cooler tone. I for one happen to think the thread is still salvageable.

Honest question: is it really that incontrovertible and self-evident that Williams all but shoved Doyle out the door with Stepmom? What were FSM's sources for their reporting?

You make a compelling argument, Blumenkohl, but I'm not sure I fully buy into your premise that Williams has an implicit obligation to pave the way for a younger composer to score the next Star Wars film, no matter what archetypal precedent may suggest. I guess I don't detect a miserly ingraciousness so much as a genuine enthusiasm for what is indeed a rich legacy of film music in which Williams and fans alike have delighted for decades now. If indeed the filmmakers determine that another composer should score the film, then well and good, and everyone should be gracious in letting the decision making proceed in a thoughtful way unencumbered by any sort of pettiness. But I don't think Williams's comments really contribute markedly to the burden loyal fans already bring to bear.

Also, I think it's at least conceivable that Williams, incorrigibly "antediluvian" as he is, is still acclimating to the era of ubiquitous social media and its attendant risks to public figures.

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I guess I just want a Yoda/Dumbledore/Gandalf Williams and am heartbroken that his comments aren't more...willing to let others take limelight.

Well, here's how I see it. He's surrounded by a bunch of eager fans who probably want him to score the new SW films. So in his judgement, he probably thought it was best to do them the courtesy of telling them he would actually be interested in that, and that's exactly what the audience wants to hear. They don't want to hear him say that he'd like someone else to step in, they want to see HIM be interested in doing it. And all Williams was probably doing was playing the kind host at his own concert.

There was no dramatic, political, underlying plot to put shame on any one who dares attempt to make a claim on his Star Wars throne. ;)

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God this thread turned to shit. Way to turn interesting comments made by the man who's the reason we're all here into a disaster of a thread. No wonder new people never stay...

Would you rather see a thread with 30 posts that read:

Great!

Sweet!

Awesome!

Wow!

OMG!

Neat!

Cool!

Radical!

Great News!

Woo!

He's gonna do it!

Yee-haw!

This makes me happy!

Yay!

Woot!

Awesome!

Terrific News!

*dies*

That sounds fantastic!

Best news ever!

Whoaoaoaaoaoa!

Aw yeah!

Exciting!

YIPPEE!

Hallelujah!

:D :D :D

Weeeee!

No way!

OH BOY!

WOOOOOOOOOHOOOO!

And yes I counted those, those are indeed thirty.

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God this thread turned to shit. Way to turn interesting comments made by the man who's the reason we're all here into a disaster of a thread. No wonder new people never stay...

Would you rather see a thread with 30 posts that read:

Great!

Sweet!

Awesome!

Wow!

OMG!

Neat!

Cool!

Radical!

Great News!

Woo!

He's gonna do it!

Yee-haw!

This makes me happy!

Yay!

Woot!

Awesome!

Terrific News!

*dies*

That sounds fantastic!

Best news ever!

Whoaoaoaaoaoa!

Aw yeah!

Exciting!

YIPPEE!

Hallelujah!

:D :D :D

Weeeee!

No way!

OH BOY!

WOOOOOOOOOHOOOO!

And yes I counted those, those are indeed thirty.

Now we're talking. Why can't you post like this all the time?

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God this thread turned to shit. Way to turn interesting comments made by the man who's the reason we're all here into a disaster of a thread. No wonder new people never stay...

Or you could be like me and just ghost for years...

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Did the Lincoln elegy seem to be the same as the album cue, or was it an extended version? Either way, that is not the piece I would expect him to perform from the movie. I would like to think that this is evidence that he is going to have a suite of reworked pieces from the movie. Maybe not quite the reworking as with Memoirs, but I am hoping for something along those lines.

 

The Lincoln piece was one selection from the new 3 Movement Suite. It has more elaborate cello lines.

 

Honest question: is it really that incontrovertible and self-evident that Williams all but shoved Doyle out the door with Stepmom? What were FSM's sources for their reporting?

 

It wasn't John Williams that shoved Patrick out (really no surprise there!) It was purely political and related to unions and music recording locations.

The concert was wonderful by the way. The young musicians really gave it their all and JW was as charming and musically commanding as ever. Seeing him conduct was a real thrill as it's been 15 years since I last saw him conduct live, which was with the LSO in 1998.

 

The Gala Dinner afterwards was such a treat and it was kind of surreal having him just sit a couple of tables from me. Definitely a night to remember!

 

I posted some photos on FB which some of you might have seen: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=pcb.10151430056447229&type=1

 

 

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It wasn't John Williams that shoved Patrick out (really no surprise there!) It was purely political and related to unions and music recording locations.

Nobody here knows exactly what happened during the production of Stepmom. It's all speculative.

Some people really have to paint a two dimensional, 'Cartoon Network' reality of Hollywood in order for their allegations to work.

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Chris Columbus stated at the end of the sessions that he thought Patrick's score was the best thing he'd ever heard and wanted him to score the rest of his movies. This caused quite a stir and the politics came into play as a result: scoring would leave LA for London. Ironically the Harry Potter scores were recorded there anyway.

I'm sure there's more detail but that's the closest to the truth we'll likely get. Understandably the people involved don't want to a) go on record, and b) bring up old wounds.

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Interesting that the same genius who was comparing JW to a "stalker" is now not so gracefully trying to walk it back by saying Williams is just being Hollywood tough. And all this because an ageing composer said to some fans he'd like to work with George again. Of course, this is the same clown who thinks he knows what's in JJ Abrams Star Wars contract to the letter and assures us all that there's no way Williams is scoring it.

Pretending you know how Hollywood works doesn't mean you do. Blume sounds like a kid who thinks he knows how things work in Hollywood and want to show us all how smart he is. Or someone trying to imitate how he thinks the grown ups talk...since he thinks being tough means being rude on a message board, he just kind of assumes it works the same way with big type folk in Hollywood. And that anyone who thinks Williams can be a decent person and still thrive in the big leagues must be naive.

First, Nick relax. Deep breath. You don't need to get your blood pressure that high and hurl personal insults to defend your point against me.

I enjoy getting a rise out of people (it gets you talking), but I don't enjoy you giving yourself a heart attack over my comments. That and it's no fun for anyone, especially me, when you make the arguments about me rather than the topic.

P.S. If you are really offended by the signature, consider this: even Koray who jumped to my defense earlier was once where you stand now, the last time I did the signature! I'm pretty sure I put Joey in the scroll past list last time just to spite him. You're new, and you're not familiar with me yet, so I can understand that you feel the signature is a sign of my being a terrible person. For what its worth, I think you can make a pretty solid addition around here, if you stick around long enough.

So let's look at the biggest mistake in this thread so far:

>>>>>So being Hollywood tough also means that Williams is an old, classless, inelegant, arrogant, cringe worthy, greedy, manipulative stalker who likes to screw colleagues over?

I never said that. I did not even insulted John directly. I took issue with his comments and how they reflect on him in my eyes. Almost every highlighted red word is directed at his comments, not the man.

The only point I'd say my words were directed at John personally is the bit about Patrick Doyle. He used a similar "I would like to score it," tactic to replace a Patrick Doyle recovering from leukemia on Stepmom. And I mean those words.

But before you take issue with those particular insults to psychoanalyze me and tell me what I'm trying to say consider this:

Imagine you were solely responsible for a project or task and someone who is better than you came by and said "Oh I would like to do that!" and then proceeded to replace you on it. How would you feel?

Now imagine you may have the opportunity to work on a once in a lifetime project, a project with a great legacy that is being turned over to a new generation like yourself. Imagine the man who's already taken six shots at it says "Oh! I would love to do that!"

I would have much preferred John's comments convey a willingness and graciousness in giving others the opportunity to tackle one of the most incredible projects they could imagine.

Sometimes an important part of being the best is being willing to let others do what you want to do. It's unfortunate that John's comments do not convey that willingness. It's one of the most powerful things our leaders, elders, wise, and experienced can do for us.

Let's take it back to Star Wars. To an old, wise, experienced man who is the best at what he does. Did Yoda go fight the Emperor and Darth Vader for Luke? Even our greatest mythologies make it a point of showing the wise and all powerful wizard who steps aside for the rising youth.

I honestly don't think my disappointment is unwarranted.

Well, Blume, this I can respond to.

But first of all, my comments about your "scroll by" list have nothing to do with where I am in it...I don't care about that one way or the other. I just think making such a list and putting as your sig isn't really funny or clever, it seems to be it's designed to just instigate and be insulting, but if you enjoy it, have at it.

Secondly, I'd love to see some original sourcing that shows me how John Williams pushed Doyle out of that score b/c he wants it for himself. I keep hearing this story, but haven't seen anything to back it up these specific allegations. Without original sourcing, it's just speculation, and in that case I don't think it should be used to support your argument. And if it's indeed just speculation based on limited facts, why assume the worst about Williams? Unless you have a link, with some facts from original sources to back up this allegation, I don't think you should continue to make it.

Finally, your post is also based on another piece of speculation...that someone else has been offered the score in some way, and William's comments, rather than just being polite banter to an audience of fans, are really somehow a manipulative attempt to force someone from the younger generation out. Really Blume, why make that assumption at this point? First of all, you have no idea...none...whether Williams (or any other composer for that matter) has been approached about this. So again this business about "someone else" being responsible for the task and Williams is coming along and taking it from them has no foundation in the facts as we currently know them. Since apparently were just making up scenarios, you could easily flip that around and say "Here's Gia coming along trying to force an ageing composer out and keeping him from having one final triumph to his career". The fact is, we just don't know what's going on...and to just assume the worst about Williams comments are, I think, uncharitable to say the least. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt until the facts say otherwise?

And lets face it, Gia...who is the most likely replacement isn't exactly some wide eyed kid looking for his big break and Williams is keeping him from his dream. Gia is a well established composer with a big name Hollywood director in his corner. Gia's going to be fine whether he scores Star Wars or not. And here's a thought, if Gia, or some other young composer, wants to make a name for themselves, why not create something original, the way Williams did, rather than do it by building on someone else's work? Howard Shore did it for LOTR, so let Gia find his own project to make his legacy. When people hum music from Harry Potter, is it something Doyle or Hopper or Desplat wrote? When people think of Star Trek music, do they think of Michael Giacchino's score? Star Wars will never be his anyway, no matter what he (or any other composer) does, so what not make your bones doing something of your own?

Again, I think Gia will probably end up doing it, but if he does it will be because Williams passes. Well, actually I think the most likely result is you'll see different composers across these various Star Wars projects (that seems to be the way Disney works), all putting their own unique stamp on what JW created. Again, I don't believe any of this will be done without at least giving Williams right of first refusal. In any event, if anyone has been approached about SW at this point, it would only stand to reason that it is Williams (though again, this is speculation). He'd be the obvious choice for the job, no matter who's directing, and given a competing set of possibilities, the one that makes the fewest assumptions is usually the correct one.

But I do think we should give Williams, at least at this point, the benefit of the doubt. If he ends up being the manipulative creep you've described, I'll be the first one to join you in condemning him. And if you want Williams to graciously step aside, give him the chance to graciously step aside, and hold off maligning him for just a little while. But for now, I think at the very least we can give him (and us) the respect of describing him in less vitriolic terms, as you've done with your follow up posts.

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Chris Columbus stated at the end of the sessions that he thought Patrick's score was the best thing he'd ever heard and wanted him to score the rest of his movies. This caused quite a stir and the politics came into play as a result: scoring would leave LA for London. Ironically the Harry Potter scores were recorded there anyway.

I'm sure there's more detail but that's the closest to the truth we'll likely get. Understandably the people involved don't want to a) go on record, and b) bring up old wounds.

Columbus praises all his composers. In the liner notes of Nine Months he more or less says the same about Zimmer.

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Chris Columbus stated at the end of the sessions that he thought Patrick's score was the best thing he'd ever heard and wanted him to score the rest of his movies. This caused quite a stir and the politics came into play as a result: scoring would leave LA for London. Ironically the Harry Potter scores were recorded there anyway.

I'm sure there's more detail but that's the closest to the truth we'll likely get. Understandably the people involved don't want to a) go on record, and b) bring up old wounds.

Columbus praises all his composers. In the liner notes of Nine Months he more or less says the same about Zimmer.

You had to get Hans in there somehow didn't you ;)

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Blumenkohl, differing opinions are absolutely okay but sometimes a bit of tact is required in dealing with other people. Your signature list by the way is the opposite of tact because you try to create tension and stir up on the board which in my opinion is not a good way to deal with people.

I have no idea why you seemingly have developed so many bad feelings towards John Williams that made you imply all these things about JW's personality. At least there are tons of interviews, articles and informations available over all these years which easily show that your asumptions are wrong.

It was very disappointing to see you take over karelms enthusastic thread and manage to create a stir up and negative feelings on various users just to get attention. But your last post here even implies you don't like happy news, positive comments and a fine discussion. You rather turned the thread into shit. That's something i can't understand. Do you like how this thread end up?

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I have no idea why you seemingly have developed so many bad feelings towards John Williams that made you imply all these things about JW's personality. At least there are tons of interviews, articles and informations available over all these years which easily show that your asumptions are wrong.

Familiarity breeds contempt.

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It wasn't Blumenkohl who turned the thread, it was the people who attacked him for stating his honest thoughts.

Just because your thoughts are "honest", doesn't mean they're above criticism, especially when they're as extreme as Blume's were. And since he's already admitted he partially did it to "get a rise" out of people, he shouldn't be surprised when he gets a rise out of people.

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I don't think you get Blumenkohl's ways. Pity.

Yes, but, you see, criticism towards John Williams is forbidden on this board.

Also, instead of taking it slow and de-escalating, people took it to another level.

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I don't think you get Blumenkohl's ways. Pity.

Yes, but, you see, criticism towards John Williams is forbidden on this board.

Also, instead of taking it slow and de-escalating, people took it to another level.

Criticising William's work is fine. But the personal nature attacks that Blume threw around, IMO, were going too far. Your mileage may vary.

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I don't think you get Blumenkohl's ways. Pity.

Yes, but, you see, criticism towards John Williams is forbidden on this board.

No it isn't, don't be obtuse. That's a complete fallacy. There's only a tiny handful of the most ardent Williams fans here who might actively reject all criticism of the man's music, but even that's debatable. There's a healthy balance on either side, as has been openly mused about on countless occasions. It's mean spirited digs at the culture here made by people like you which we could do without.

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