What are the most uninteresting themes of Williams?

[skyy38 21]

I see Tintins "Theme" more like a motiv, a building block for the composition. Iin general I like to compare the Tintin soundtrack compositionally with Haydn (small motiv based) while War Horse would be more like Mozart (more based on longer themes). In that way I find the Tintin motiv a stroke of genius with all the variations Williams develops over the film. It is a soundtrack that has grown so much on me that I now rank it among my favorite Williams of all time. I simply do not get tired to listen to it.

I agree with Hymn of the Fallen, Battle of the Heroes and Dobby somewhat, but one has to keep in mind that Williams might intentionally use very simplistic progressions to describe a characteristic (which seems to be the case in Dobby). Also I want to add the Patriot main theme as quite uninteresting. I haven´t decided about Lincoln yet...

The Patriot MT was warmed over "Jurrasic Park"- even my Mom caught this. However, I don't seem to mind as much when it's used as the conclusion to "Ann Recruits The Parishoners" the first part, which, IMHO, was the most stately piece of music that JW wrote since "The Throne Room ". One of those real cool pieces that other composers pull their hair out, trying to write.......

Also I want to add the Patriot main theme as quite uninteresting. I haven´t decided about Lincoln yet...

I find most of Lincoln's themes uninteresting,but that's another discussion.

The Patriot uninteresting? I've come to love the concert suite and would have to disagree with you there.

Oh yeah, and Across the Stars. I haven't been inspired to listen to that for years. The only track from that score I have is Chase Through Coruscant actually.

Across The Stars and Duel Of The Fates were the only two pieces that remained with me out of the PT.

[wanner251 17]

Everything from Sleepers is pretty ho hum...

[Romão 2,274]

It's my favorite JW score

[karelm 2,913]

See, I think the mournful melody which opens Omaha Beach is a beautiful, understated 'theme' which touches me moreso than Hymn to the Fallen. The orchestration plays itself down, almost to the point that it might slip completely under the radar (this is my preferred "subtle" Williams approach) but listen to the actual form and progression of the tune and it's easy to imagine an alternate soundtrack to a Star Wars, or a superhero movie in which that little reverential passage instead soars with strings and the thunder of rolling timpani as the hero had his epiphany.

It's not difficult to envision much of Williams' lesser known pieces instead as big signature themes in other movies and genres. In this instance he went for the solemn ennobled approach, but such is John's versatility he might have just as easily made Omaha Beach Luke's Courage.

My point being that perceived musical complexity is a deceptive thing and much more difficult to pin down than what the trained might analyse of it on paper and in black and white. Because most of us know that much of the colouring and reactionary complexity is extracted from the various carefully designed layers of emotion found in a piece... otherwise known as harmonic joy or euphonic pathos.

Wow Quint - very well put and full of sophistication.

[Uni 306]

Everything from Sleepers is pretty ho hum...

It's my favorite JW score

This one's a divider for sure. A lot of folks don't hear anything special in it. Others swear that it should be the legacy by which all other Williams scores should be measured. There never seems to be a middle ground on this one.

For myself . . . I have to confess, it hasn't connected yet. But it's still pretty new to me, so I'm keeping an open mind (as always).

- Uni

[A24 4,331]

Hello all..

I was wondering, in the output of Williams' film music (well, mostly from 1975 and on because I'm sure you'll find more in his early music), what would you consider his most musically uninteresting themes and (if you like to say) why?

I was just studying Saving Private Ryan music, and I think the Hymn to the Fallen is one of his most uninteresting efforts.

-step-wise motion in the melody with no interest and regular rhythm except some dotted motifs here and there that don't save the theme

-regular usual harmony and plain chords

-the orchestrations and texture try to put some interest into it, especially in the later renditions of the theme in the piece, but again I don't think it's saved..

I'm sure the film and the tone of the movie called for a simple elegy as an homage to the fallen, but I believe Williams could do something better and more sophisticated.

The other theme in the film that is used many times (appr. 7-8) (eg. you can hear it in "Omaha beach": 0.24'' and on) is far more interesting.

i think, part of the reasons for this, is that -as i saw in the music documentary, he says he wrote it in the last minute, so it wasn't something that he thought carefully from the beginning along with the other music, and this wasn't a regular procedure for him..

Some songs are very simple (not more than 4 simple chords) and therein lies their beauty. More complex rhythms and unusual harmony doesn't always lead to better or more interesting composition. Yes or The Mahavishnu Orchestra never wrote a better song than The Beatles.

[wanner251 17]

Quint, you like downplayed subtle Williams too? What do you think of Death of Topthorn? I think that it is fantastic, but some people here think it's trash... It's really divided. Thoughts?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nonsense. Not everything JW has done is gold!

[indy4 155]

I love Death of Tophorn and Omaha Beach, but I wouldn't describe either as "subtle." I mean they have tons of subtle qualities like almost every JW work, but there's also a lot of very straightforward emotional power in both.

[filmmusic 1,827]

Hello all..

I was wondering, in the output of Williams' film music (well, mostly from 1975 and on because I'm sure you'll find more in his early music), what would you consider his most musically uninteresting themes and (if you like to say) why?

I was just studying Saving Private Ryan music, and I think the Hymn to the Fallen is one of his most uninteresting efforts.

-step-wise motion in the melody with no interest and regular rhythm except some dotted motifs here and there that don't save the theme

-regular usual harmony and plain chords

-the orchestrations and texture try to put some interest into it, especially in the later renditions of the theme in the piece, but again I don't think it's saved..

I'm sure the film and the tone of the movie called for a simple elegy as an homage to the fallen, but I believe Williams could do something better and more sophisticated.

The other theme in the film that is used many times (appr. 7-8) (eg. you can hear it in "Omaha beach": 0.24'' and on) is far more interesting.

i think, part of the reasons for this, is that -as i saw in the music documentary, he says he wrote it in the last minute, so it wasn't something that he thought carefully from the beginning along with the other music, and this wasn't a regular procedure for him..

Some songs are very simple (not more than 4 simple chords) and therein lies their beauty. More complex rhythms and unusual harmony doesn't always lead to better or more interesting composition. Yes or The Mahavishnu Orchestra never wrote a better song than The Beatles.

I'm with you on this.

i'm not saying that they have to be complex to be good.

Eg. the Superman theme is pretty straightforward and simple with 3-4 chords, but it's very interesting!

Also Sayuri's theme. Ony a pedal throughout (a static harmony), but it's very interesting as a theme.

The Hymn to the Fallen theme, i think is simplistic.

[Mr. K 12]

I have never liked Jabba's Theme from ROTJ. It's one of those few tracks that engender great irritation what I hear those first tuba notes...probably the only JW theme that I categorically hate.

There are a lot of JW's themes that I didn't find very interesting in my younger days that I really appreciate now.

[Uni 306]

I don't categorically hate it. It fits the character well enough. It is, however, one of those pieces that can grow old after a while. Once you've heard it a few times, you just don't feel the need to go back there very often.

When I attended the Colorado Symphony's film music concert at Red Rocks last summer, they spent half the show playing Star Wars music (which, in all honesty, was a little annoying in itself). They included "Jabba's Theme" along the way, with a solo from a very good trumpet player. I did find that interesting, since I doubt very much that theme gets much concert play any more.

- Uni

[Quintus 5,399]

The Jabba the Hut bridge section is an absolute gem, actually. Buried amongst all that tuba flab that it is, but I always pay it deserved attention every now and then. For a moment there Johnny makes those strings sound just like Gorgeous'.

[Mr. K 12]

I don't categorically hate it. It fits the character well enough. It is, however, one of those pieces that can grow old after a while. Once you've heard it a few times, you just don't feel the need to go back there very often.

When I attended the Colorado Symphony's film music concert at Red Rocks last summer, they spent half the show playing Star Wars music (which, in all honesty, was a little annoying in itself). They included "Jabba's Theme" along the way, with a solo from a very good trumpet player. I did find that interesting, since I doubt very much that theme gets much concert play any more.

- Uni

It really does fit the character perfectly- like all JW themes do. Unfortunately this is a repulsive character and the theme (quite correctly) responds in kind. In the movie it works great, but on a stand-alone listen... boom WHOMP WHOMP... boom WHOMP WHOMP... -gah! Next track, please!

The Jabba the Hut bridge section is an absolute gem, actually. Buried amongst all that tuba flab that it is, but I always pay it deserved attention every now and then. For a moment there Johnny makes those strings sound just like Gorgeous'.

I gotta admit you are correct, sir. Sadly, I cannot make it past the first tuba bars to get to that point.

[Wojo 2,453]

It's a shame that as long as the ROTJ SE album is, it cut that extended tuba solo that closes Jabba's Theme on the Anthology set. Oh well.

[Faleel 5,347]

I gotta admit you are correct, sir. Sadly, I cannot make it past the first tuba bars to get to that point.

What about the "Jabba More Sinister" insert version with the low brass?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I gotta admit you are correct, sir. Sadly, I cannot make it past the first tuba bars to get to that point.

What about the "Jabba More Sinister" insert version with the low brass?

Aren't those contrabass and bass clarinets?

[Mr. K 12]

Well, I will say this about Jabba's Theme- it was a powerhouse presentation in TPM. Like all returning themes in the prequels, this made me squeal with glee.

Yes...squeal. With glee.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Personally, it's the theme from SEVEN YEARS IN TIBET. In fact, I find the entire score dry and unengaging.

[Quintus 5,399]

The big sweeping journeyman theme? LOVE IT.

I've never listened to the rest of the score, though.

[Romão 2,274]

The three main thematic ideas from Seven Years in Tibet are beautiful, I honestly cannot begin to agree with your assessement

[indy4 155]

The best theme from SEven Years IMO is the one that opens "Leaving Ingrid." The others are good too.

[Romão 2,274]

Indeed. I've never heard remorse quite as well depicted musically

[indy4 155]

The main theme also seems like the first in a trilogy of main themes...7 Years, Angela's Ashes and now Book Thief all have some notable similarities. The first is my least favorite version, but it's still good.

[c-moll 1]

I find the Crystal Theme from KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL very uninteresting. It's a simple cluster of motifs that increase to an unsurprised orchestra tutti. Very unspectacular.

[A24 4,331]

Theme Of Jurassic Park.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

The Island Fanfare or the Dinosaur Hymn?

[crocodile 8,010]

Battle of the Heroes. An interesting idea, but dull results.

Karol

[A24 4,331]

The Island Fanfare or the Dinosaur Hymn?

"Theme From Jurassic Park" ... The hymn.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Battle of the Heroes. An interesting idea, but dull results.

That's what I think of Duel of the Fates (Concert Version). It works better as small fragments.

[crocodile 8,010]

Maybe but DOTF at least is memorable.

Karol

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I find the Crystal Theme from KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL very uninteresting. It's a simple cluster of motifs that increase to an unsurprised orchestra tutti. Very unspectacular.

This. It's just a rehash of the Ark theme.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Maybe but DOTF at least is memorable.

Karol

So it BOTH.

[crocodile 8,010]

Maybe but DOTF at least is memorable.

Karol

So it BOTH.

I never liked it. When I first heard it my reaction was "that's it?". It works great as an underscore, a. Action material. But for a major theme it falls short.

I find the Crystal Theme from KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL very uninteresting. It's a simple cluster of motifs that increase to an unsurprised orchestra tutti. Very unspectacular.

This. It's just a rehash of the Ark theme.

The theme itself might not be that great but is nicely developed throughout the score. In my book HOW is just as important as WHAT.

Karol

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It gets developed?

[crocodile 8,010]

Yup. Listen to the destruction of the temple, some amazing stuff in there. And that fanfare at the end, when the theme ends on major key, is just awesome.

And I absolutely love the cue in the cave. Deceptively simple.

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

It's quite a decent little mystery motif but favours badly in light of what came before it.

[indy4 155]

I like the skull motif. It's rhythmically very ambiguous, unlike the (admittedly superior) ark theme. But I think the best part is the hypnotic B theme.

[crocodile 8,010]

There are three themes almost - there's the hypnotic three note motif (which people associate with Ark theme), there's the actual theme (which sounds kind of like Basic Instinct or Williams' own Dracula) and there's the lovely mystery B-section indy4 is referring to.

Karol

[Faleel 5,347]

I love the skull theme. especially the version in the cue right before the cue with the choir intro.

[Alejandro 26]

I think the themes to Sleepers, the River, and Always are stellar! (though the rest of the scores are eh). But at least the themes are wonderful. Film Score Monthly named Sleepers the Best Score of 1996!

But Dracula? I find it boring.

Midway? I know it's a good march, but I don't like it at all.

Family Plot? Never got into that theme, either.

Long Goodbye ... that one too.

So: Dracula, Midway, Family Plot, Long Goodbye are all the scores I leave out of my Williams playlist. My playlist has 1-4 tracks from every Williams score, which I play often for the past 20 years.

Edit: I have the theme from Poseidon Adv. on the playlist, but I generally skip it.