Hans Zimmer started on INTERSTELLAR

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Damn straight, and Jerry too.

You have been more critical of Jerry then you have ever be on MG.

[publicist 4,643]

Because he has much more gigs than Williams or Goldsmith at he moment, i guess. And after having the privilege of listening to MOS i say he didn't exactly hit this one out of the park but undoubtedly will win many new fans over this (it tries for a more uplifting and melancholic take on the BATMAN formula that is not terribly exciting, with some really hair-raising loud action music in between)

[Ollie 1,059]

Damn straight, and Jerry too.

You have been more critical of Jerry then you have ever be on MG.

Wait until he gets to his 70's and has over a 100 films, of course by then I'll be in my 70's and probably won't remember what the hell I'm babbling about at that time.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

yeah, but what a life you will have led!

[indy4 155]

This thread proves to me once again that there are probably only two Hans Zimmer fans in this forum -- me and Koray Savas. Or am I missing someone?

I like Zimmer quite a bit.

Awesome. Let the three of us stand in the corner and put up a force field against the rest of the crowd!

Me too! Although I'm not a fan of the impact he's had on the art, I do really like the man's works.

[MSM 126]

I am not very excited about this project anyway, so I am ok with it. To let everybody agree that HZ is one of the best composers in Hollywood might be a bit of a stretch, given the criticism he receives. However, he is certainly one of the most popular, most effective and most amiable composers in the business (as well as one of the richest I guess).

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

However, he is certainly one of the most popular, most effective and most amiable composers in the business (as well as one of the richest I guess).

The fact that he posts on a forum and is so self-deprecating goes a long way. Very nice bloke.

[Romão 2,274]

I'm an occasional fan of Zimmer. I think most of the stuff he writes is pretty forgettable. But once in a while he surprises me with some unexpectadly good track. The last time was with the track Poisoned Chalice from Da Vinci Code

[crocodile 8,006]

Yeah, I like the track myself.

Even though, it quotes Vaughan-Williams.

Who quoted something else as well.

Karol

[Romão 2,274]

Does it? What piece?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Julyan is great.

[Incanus 5,714]

Does it? What piece?

Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis. Zimmer also seems to borrow a bit from John Tavener's choral work Mother and Child (which uses the word Sofia in its text) in his theme for Sophie. But Tavener's inspiration was Russian liturgical music of Orthodox church if I remember correctly so it all winds into these circles of reference.

[Thor 7,495]

But Thor demands HZ love, which in his case means that everything HZ does is worthy of hefty applause.

When did I say that, exactly? Just because he's one of my favourite composers doesn't mean that he hasn't done his fair share of clunkers (like all composers -- including Williams).

I don't mind people disliking him, and I don't mind being in the minority (as usual). I also don't mind a serious discussion of a person's music -- the positive and negative. I do, however, severely dislike cheap shots, prejudice and attacks on a person.

[crocodile 8,006]

Does it? What piece?

What Incanus said:

Having said that, the last 26 minutes of Da Vinci Code album are really good.

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

But Thor demands HZ love, which in his case means that everything HZ does is worthy of hefty applause.

When did I say that, exactly? Just because he's one of my favourite composers doesn't mean that he hasn't done his fair share of clunkers (like all composers -- including Williams).

I don't mind people disliking him, and I don't mind being in the minority (as usual). I also don't mind a serious discussion of a person's music -- the positive and negative. I do, however, severely dislike cheap shots, prejudice and attacks on a person.

Thor, i don't read all of your posts, but i would be surprised to find any discussion on this very musician where you don't come off like a defensive fanboy. Which is no problem, mind you, but it is rather rich for someone who trots out the same broad and unspecific basics á la 'it's rock music fitted to movies' to demand serious discussion on the subject.

I repeatedly singled out instances in which RCP alumni and Zimmer try for a more sophisticated underscore approach, say in longer dramatic or action cues, but obviously lack the musical education (or inclination) to develop them beyond just changing the rhythm at minute 03:25 et cetera. This does work in blockbusters today, where the music mostly functions as an afterthought, but taken as pure music on a record, it has the tendency to be numbingly simple. You may not agree with this (of course you don't) but you never ever even bothered to go deeper into specifics like this, instead being content with selling your old wisdoms ca. FSM board 1999.

[Thor 7,495]

But Thor demands HZ love, which in his case means that everything HZ does is worthy of hefty applause.

When did I say that, exactly? Just because he's one of my favourite composers doesn't mean that he hasn't done his fair share of clunkers (like all composers -- including Williams).

I don't mind people disliking him, and I don't mind being in the minority (as usual). I also don't mind a serious discussion of a person's music -- the positive and negative. I do, however, severely dislike cheap shots, prejudice and attacks on a person.

Thor, i don't read all of your posts, but i would be surprised to find any discussion on this very musician where you don't come off like a defensive fanboy. Which is no problem, mind you, but it is rather rich for someone who trots out the same broad and unspecific basics á la 'it's rock music fitted to movies' to demand serious discussion on the subject.

I repeatedly singled out instances in which RCP alumni and Zimmer try for a more sophisticated underscore approach, say in longer dramatic or action cues, but obviously lack the musical education (or inclination) to develop them beyond just changing the rhythm at minute 03:25 et cetera. This does work in blockbusters today, where the music mostly functions as an afterthought, but taken as pure music on a record, it has the tendency to be numbingly simple. You may not agree with this (of course you don't) but you never ever even bothered to go deeper into specifics like this, instead being content with selling your old wisdoms ca. FSM board 1999.

Of course I will come off as a defensive fanboy when I am confronted with cheap shots, prejudice and personal attacks on Zimmer. Any reasonable person would, even if they disliked said composer's music. What would be the point in discussing, say, Williams with someone who just brushed it all off as 'a hack who does cheap Wagner and Strauss knock-offs', for example? Wouldn't be any point.

Give me a more level-headed discussion, however, and I'm all game. I've already gone 'into specifics' about him and his sound many, many times (and if memory serves, I've discussed it with you too on many occasions) -- from the power anthem aesthetic to the more textural approach he's nurtured in later years. There are two types of discussion, though -- one about how the music works in context with the movie and another on the music itself in an album discussion.

[Brónach 1,302]

There's a third type, the score context, which you don't do. However, the shortcomings in his work that I don't like cannot be more obvious than in film context, as it's very easy to imagine the contrast that other music would make in one of his films where his work isn't up to par.

[lostinspace 8]

Zimmer has had a few hits but too many misses IMHO. That said when he gets it right, he is brilliant. Well him and his ghostwriters (Yes, I know Zimmer writes the themes..)

I thought Sherlock Holmes was really good, as was Inception. But when Hans works with Chris Nolan he tends to write more minimalistically which tends to make the score more like repeating pattern wall paper.

Cranking out those ostinatos.

Maybe he is "less" inspired than he once was but his recent scores seem to be overly electronic and they seem to all blend together.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Many members here who have grown up appreciating film music that was challenging, compelling, intelligent and detailed now feel that the new crop using the RC aesthetic have hijacked the industry by applying an inferior aural banality that any musical expert would dismiss as drivel. As a result, newer films that could have had interesting and daring scores have become "missed opportunities" because they've just been slapped with the new, trendy and safe MV/RC/Zimmer/Jablonsky sound that studios and producers have become accustomed to applying because it eliminates risk and audiences have been numbed to it, so they demand even less.

It seems to really hurt Thor's feelings that people on a John Williams board make fun of Zimmer and co., but does he understand why people make "cheapshots" at Zimmer and his ilk? From my perspective, it's always been because people feel that quality compositions and complex orchestrations have been usurped for the equivalent of film music junk food - "McZimmer" if you will. Williams has set a very high standard of excellence that few other composers have been able grasp, but when repetitive droning influences producers to call for more of the same in almost every film, Thor should realise that this frustrates many present members who demand a lot more effort. Consequently, they’ll vent their resentment in any form that amuses them on a message board where likeminded folks will listen. Levity can be therapeutic.

Film music aficionados have been very cynical about this trend ever since that POTC incident when Silvestri got shafted in favour of the Zimmer Factory sound when it was anticipated that the composer might have delivered a thematic and bombastic action adventure score on par with his previous score for The Mummy Returns. Granted we never heard what Silvestri would have delivered, we can presume that it would have had some bombast laced with thematic integrity, as opposed to just empty bombast that doesn't really say anything, but says it loud. The moment Media Ventures was announced as Silvestri's replacement, many of us saw it as a significant turning point that would indicate a downward trend that would hurt many other films for years to come. It became rather irritating when I was reading COS forums at the time full of adolescents drooling over the idea of Klaus Badelt scoring any new Harry Potter films because they loved the POTC score so much (and these are the people Hollywood more-than-likely listens to!). Was it really that good that no other quality non-MV score prior to that caught their ear?

After all, it’s okay if someone enjoys the Zimmer clone sound on a casual superficial level, but if anyone seriously believes that the output of Zimmer and his apprentices over the last 15 years is of superior quality and intelligence than the Williams/Goldsmith/Horner/Barry/etc. glory years of the 70s, 80s and 90s, I not only question their taste but also their sanity.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

My issue is when assigning the blame for perceived substandard work. It's next to impossible these days to tell whether Zimmer or one of his minions wrote a piece.

Given his output this year, I would speculate that The Bible for instance is mainly Balfe's work, with Zimmer's name on it to sell CDs.

Even with his major scores it's difficult to tell.

[Thor 7,495]

It seems to really hurt Thor's feelings that people on a John Williams board make fun of Zimmer and co., but does he understand why people make "cheapshots" at Zimmer and his ilk? From my perspective, it's always been because people feel that quality compositions and complex orchestrations have been usurped for the equivalent of film music junk food - "McZimmer" if you will. Williams has set a very high standard of excellence that few other composers have been able grasp, but when repetitive droning influences producers to call for more of the same in almost every film, Thor should realise that this frustrates many present members who demand a lot more effort. Consequently, they’ll vent their resentment in any form that amuses them on a message board where likeminded folks will listen. Levity can be therapeutic.

Sorry, as much 'levity' as it may provide, I can neither accept nor tolerate these things. If one is frustrated by something or even dislike something, why not air it in a constructive fashion? Passionate, if you will, but at least constructive? I think that goes especially for a public forum where healthy discussion is (ideally) to be held. 'Gang bullying' is the lowest form of behaviour, IMO, even if the object of the bullying isn't present in person.

[filmmusic 1,826]

After all, it’s okay if someone enjoys the Zimmer clone sound on a casual superficial level, but if anyone seriously believes that the output of Zimmer and his apprentices over the last 15 years is of superior quality and intelligence than the Williams/Goldsmith/Horner/Barry/etc. glory years of the 70s, 80s and 90s, I not only question their taste but also their sanity.

Drax, it's mostly a matter of education.

Don't want to sound elitist towards those that don't have a music education, I really don't, and Thor, I hope you don't take it personally, since the discussion here is mostly around your views.

I myself for example can't judge a science project or the aesthetic result of a plastic surgery, since I haven't studied either of them.

15-20 years ago, i hadn't had enough music education yet to properly judge a music composition. Eg. I could tell you that a Vangelis piece is of the same level and musical quality with a Williams piece. But now, after years and years of watching the compositional process and what are the factors that enrich a music piece, I think that i can put things more in the place that they deserve.

(still, i can't be a good judge of atonical music, since I haven't studied it much. Meaning, if you show me an atonical piece that is considered a masterpiece, and just a common atonical piece, it's most likely that they will both sound the same to me)

That said, I strongly believe that there is no person who has studied music more than 20 years, and will tell you that Zimmer's current music output is of superior quality.

I am wondering, is there one? (I'm really asking this, it's not a rhetorical question)

Of course still I believe that some of his older scores like the Thin Red Line and the Lion King are masterpieces, but those scores show something that the current scores don't show at all. (not to mention that we're wondering who wrote what exactly and what is the level of participation of the ghost composers)

[Thor 7,495]

While I generally condone a good education (especially since I have a long one myself....it would be hypocritical if I didn't), I don't think it's a prerogative to be a successful film composer. 'Education' can come in many forms and shapes. Danny Elfman is largely self-taught and acquired his skill through experience and exploration -- much like Zimmer. What matters is only that you have a musical talent and in the case of film music -- that you're able to understand the dramaturgical necessities of the film in question. That you're able to understand the powerful marriage of image and music in certain ways.

[filmmusic 1,826]

No, Elfman is not the same with Zimmer.

Elfman studied music by himself (that doesn't matter to me, if it's something that one can do on his own or go to a school), meaning he can read scores, he knows harmony etc. etc. It's evident from his sketches.

But Zimmer doesn't know about these things..

What matters is only that you have a musical talent and in the case of film music -- that you're able to understand the dramaturgical necessities of the film in question. That you're able to understand the powerful marriage of image and music in certain ways.

If you hadn't studied you language at all, and you just had an inherent talent of speech, would you be able to express your thoughts eloquently in a piece of paper?

it's exactly the same here.

Just because someone knows or has the talent to speak, doesn't mean that he can write too.

[publicist 4,643]

Give me a more level-headed discussion, however, and I'm all game. I've already gone 'into specifics' about him and his sound many, many times (and if memory serves, I've discussed it with you too on many occasions) -- from the power anthem aesthetic to the more textural approach he's nurtured in later years. There are two types of discussion, though -- one about how the music works in context with the movie and another on the music itself in an album discussion.

The only impression i've got from those discussions is that you don't even know most of the movies (and tv shows) affected by RCP style and basically are satisfied with just repeating what you already said a lot of times before, which is my main nuisance with this kind of discussion with you.

I go even so far to say that if i would challenge you on specific sequences in KING ARTHUR, TEARS OF THE SUN or ANGELS AND DEMONS, you would draw a blank because your knowledge of the actual films often seems very limited (no harm intended, just my impression).

As for the old argument that you need to study composition to appreciate good writing, it's BS. Everyone here who listens to JW should at least acknowledge how a classical trained composer approaches music vs. the more Axel. F.-approach of composers like Zimmer. You don't need to study anything for that, just to listen (it of course robs you of the opportunity to wax poetic about triadic e-flats or something like that).

[Brónach 1,302]

It seems to really hurt Thor's feelings that people on a John Williams board make fun of Zimmer and co., but does he understand why people make "cheapshots" at Zimmer and his ilk? From my perspective, it's always been because people feel that quality compositions and complex orchestrations have been usurped for the equivalent of film music junk food - "McZimmer" if you will. Williams has set a very high standard of excellence that few other composers have been able grasp, but when repetitive droning influences producers to call for more of the same in almost every film, Thor should realise that this frustrates many present members who demand a lot more effort. Consequently, they’ll vent their resentment in any form that amuses them on a message board where likeminded folks will listen. Levity can be therapeutic.

Sorry, as much 'levity' as it may provide, I can neither accept nor tolerate these things. If one is frustrated by something or even dislike something, why not air it in a constructive fashion? Passionate, if you will, but at least constructive? I think that goes especially for a public forum where healthy discussion is (ideally) to be held. 'Gang bullying' is the lowest form of behaviour, IMO, even if the object of the bullying isn't present in person.

Constructive? Are film producers even going to listen to us or what?

There's a point where we have to take certain things with a sense of humour and we bicker a bit for our amusement. That's it. That's not bullying lol

[Thor 7,495]

What I think is important to remember, filmmusic, is that there isn't only ONE type of musical idiom that everyone should or must master in order to be successful. You don't need to be a master in orchestral/symphonic composition in order be a good film composer. If your voice and style is in different idioms, then one should nurture that and explore it within those criteria. Zimmer was never an orchestral composer and -- to my knowledge -- has never composed a score based on traditional, symphonic rules. That's not what he's about. So it's unfair when I see him judged by those standards. It would be like judging Williams for not being a better electropop composer.

Film music is such a flexible artform -- with so many different styles at one's disposal -- that the FIRST thing one should ask is how the music resonates with what the director wants to say.

[Brónach 1,302]

What is Zimmer's realm?

I don't judge music for the "rules" it follows. But I know when I like it and when I don't. And with Zimmer there's a tendency to not liking it. The insanely dull theme of Man of Steel isn't quite convincing me that Zimmer will make something that I'll like for Interstellar.

[Thor 7,495]

I go even so far to say that if i would challenge you on specific sequences in KING ARTHUR, TEARS OF THE SUN or ANGELS AND DEMONS, you would draw a blank because your knowledge of the actual films often seems very limited (no harm intended, just my impression).

Of course, I haven't seen or heard everything Zimmer (or other RC associates) ever did. Who has? As it happens, I haven't seen any of those you mention there. But I would be glad to discuss the merits of, say, RAIN MAN, DRIVING MISS DAISY, DAYS OF THUNDER, GREEN CARD, BACKDRAFT, THELMA & LOUISE, K2, THE POWER OF ONE, POINT OF NO RETURN, THE HOUSE OF THE SPIRITS, THE LION KING, CRIMSON TIDE, BEYOND RANGOON (my alltime favourite), THE ROCK, THE PEACEMAKER, AS GOOD AS IT GETS, THE PRINCE OF EGYPT, THE THIN RED LINE, MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE 2, GLADIATOR, BLACK HAWK DOWN, PEARL HARBOR, HANNIBAL, THE RING, THE LAST SAMURAI, THE POTC FILMS, MACTHSTICK MEN, THE BATMAN FILMS, THE DA VINCI CODE, THE HOLIDAY, INCEPTION. Take your pick.

There's a point where we have to take certain things with a sense of humour and we bicker a bit for our amusement. That's it. That's not bullying lol

Quite the contrary, I think it's very appropriate in this context. Some of the comments I've read in this thread and others are 100% bullying. That you're not able to see that and just consider it 'levity' and 'amusement' says more about you, I think.

[Brónach 1,302]

Hey, shut the fuck up. I know what bullying is. Don't drop the word like that where it doesn't correspond, much less mke assumptions about me.

[publicist 4,643]

Then let's say PEARL HARBOR, POTC I and DA VINCI CODE. Not yet, because i don't have proper time, but in the next days.

I will write my impression on the strengths and weaknesses and you will address them without resorting to broad strokes.

[Thor 7,495]

Then let's say PEARL HARBOR, POTC I and DA VINCI CODE. Not yet, because i don't have proper time, but in the next days.

I will write my impression on the strengths and weaknesses and you will address them without resorting to broad strokes.

I'll try -- although I won't be able to use expressions like 'e-flat triads' and whathaveyou, since I'm not a musician.

[Brónach 1,302]

Well we all have ears here. It's possible to describe what one likes in the music without resorting to technobabble.

Although I like knowing how to call certain things here and there.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Yes. Additionally, he introduces Chris Gordon to Nolan, burns down the RCP offices and takes composition courses.

YES! Give Christopher Gordon something good to do already!

[Thor 7,495]

Well we all have ears here. It's possible to describe what one likes in the music without resorting to technobabble.

On that, we DO agree. Better that than the kindergarten rhetorics and bullying, in any case.

[filmmusic 1,826]

I don't judge music for the "rules" it follows. But I know when I like it and when I don't. And with Zimmer there's a tendency to not liking it. The insanely dull theme of Man of Steel isn't quite convincing me that Zimmer will make something that I'll like for Interstellar.

There aren't rules in music.

It's just elements that make something more sophisticated than something else..

Well we all have ears here. It's possible to describe what one likes in the music without resorting to technobabble.

On that, we DO agree.

Ok, i agree there too.

The technobabble that you mention helps you understand WHY you like it and WHY this is "better" (aka more sophisticated) than that .

[Ollie 1,059]

Many members here who have grown up appreciating film music that was challenging, compelling, intelligent and detailed now feel that the new crop using the RC aesthetic have hijacked the industry by applying an inferior aural banality that any musical expert would dismiss as drivel. As a result, newer films that could have had interesting and daring scores have become "missed opportunities" because they've just been slapped with the new, trendy and safe MV/RC/Zimmer/Jablonsky sound that studios and producers have become accustomed to applying because it eliminates risk and audiences have been numbed to it, so they demand even less.

It seems to really hurt Thor's feelings that people on a John Williams board make fun of Zimmer and co., but does he understand why people make "cheapshots" at Zimmer and his ilk? From my perspective, it's always been because people feel that quality compositions and complex orchestrations have been usurped for the equivalent of film music junk food - "McZimmer" if you will. Williams has set a very high standard of excellence that few other composers have been able grasp, but when repetitive droning influences producers to call for more of the same in almost every film, Thor should realise that this frustrates many present members who demand a lot more effort. Consequently, theyll vent their resentment in any form that amuses them on a message board where likeminded folks will listen. Levity can be therapeutic.

Film music aficionados have been very cynical about this trend ever since that POTC incident when Silvestri got shafted in favour of the Zimmer Factory sound when it was anticipated that the composer might have delivered a thematic and bombastic action adventure score on par with his previous score for The Mummy Returns. Granted we never heard what Silvestri would have delivered, we can presume that it would have had some bombast laced with thematic integrity, as opposed to just empty bombast that doesn't really say anything, but says it loud. The moment Media Ventures was announced as Silvestri's replacement, many of us saw it as a significant turning point that would indicate a downward trend that would hurt many other films for years to come. It became rather irritating when I was reading COS forums at the time full of adolescents drooling over the idea of Klaus Badelt scoring any new Harry Potter films because they loved the POTC score so much (and these are the people Hollywood more-than-likely listens to!). Was it really that good that no other quality non-MV score prior to that caught their ear?

After all, its okay if someone enjoys the Zimmer clone sound on a casual superficial level, but if anyone seriously believes that the output of Zimmer and his apprentices over the last 15 years is of superior quality and intelligence than the Williams/Goldsmith/Horner/Barry/etc. glory years of the 70s, 80s and 90s, I not only question their taste but also their sanity.

Damn Drax, well said my friend, well said.

[Jay 37,352]

Indeed.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

My issue is when assigning the blame for perceived substandard work. It's next to impossible these days to tell whether Zimmer or one of his minions wrote a piece.

Given his output this year, I would speculate that The Bible for instance is mainly Balfe's work, with Zimmer's name on it to sell CDs.

Even with his major scores it's difficult to tell.

No it isn't.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Then do tell, Mr. Savas.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I have, an insane number of times. To Rich directly too. To you too! Who reads the booklets?? Blah, blah, blah...

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Comments from the MovieWeb article about Hans writing the score.

The funny part being that Nolan had already done 3 films with David Julyan before he worked with Zimmer, and 1 after.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

http://collider.com/interstellar-score-hans-zimmer-dark-knight-trilogy/

Really encouraging since I'm quite looking forward to that film and want a "good" Zimmer score. Let's hope it's just not his usual pontification and they actually are going in a new direction for their collaboration.

[Quintus 5,399]

After reading there what both Zimmer and Nolan apparently had to say about Interstellar I must admit I am a little more intrigued by it than I was.

[KK 3,307]

Sigh. Don't we hear the same thing for every Nolan film? (in regards to the score)

I gave up on hoping it to be true. But I will be pleased if this actually turns out to be something genuinely different.

[crocodile 8,006]

Zimmer moving away from ostinatos, big drums and Batman sound?

Karol

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,307]

He said the same about Man of Steel....

[Quintus 5,399]

Makes sense, because MoS sounds nothing like Batman.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yeah this is what I mentioned the other day. Pray to the gods of music it is true. Either way I haven't been this excited for a movie in a long time.