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Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

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Boy, this score is awesome! Can't wait to hear the extended tracks!

Speaking of Diminishment Of The Elves, I think I hear that theme appearing in "The High Fells", starting at 1:31, sung by the soprano.

Doug Adams tried, 5056464 times.

In short? Didn't work. ;)

Karol

The horse was bound by "NDAs 'n shit", so if we didn't understand, it's probably because being tied by NDAs and having a cryptic way of speaking anyway are not a good combination when trying to talk some sense into rabid film score fanboys ;)

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Boy, this score is awesome! Can't wait to hear the extended tracks!

Speaking of Diminishment Of The Elves, I think I hear that theme appearing in "The High Fells", starting at 1:31, sung by the soprano.

Doug Adams tried, 5056464 times.

In short? Didn't work. ;)

Karol

The horse was bound by "NDAs 'n shit", so if we didn't understand, it's probably because being tied by NDAs and having a cryptic way of speaking anyway are not a good combination when trying to talk some sense into rabid film score fanboys ;)

Actually, this was the one subject about which I was very direct. And yes, "5056464 times" seems about right by my count. ;)

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Btw, why does everybody write they don't hear a theme for Beorn? It's all over the tracks "Wilderland" and "The House Of Beorn".


Boy, this score is awesome! Can't wait to hear the extended tracks!

Speaking of Diminishment Of The Elves, I think I hear that theme appearing in "The High Fells", starting at 1:31, sung by the soprano.

Doug Adams tried, 5056464 times.

In short? Didn't work. ;)

Karol

The horse was bound by "NDAs 'n shit", so if we didn't understand, it's probably because being tied by NDAs and having a cryptic way of speaking anyway are not a good combination when trying to talk some sense into rabid film score fanboys ;)

Actually, this was the one subject about which I was very direct. And yes, "5056464 times" seems about right by my count. ;)

It's not easy being a messenger, ask BloodBoal ;)

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Btw, why does everybody write they don't hear a theme for Beorn? It's all over the tracks "Wilderland" and "The House Of Beorn".

I don't recall anyone saying anything about a theme for Beorn in this thread.

Anyway, what timestamps are you hearing a theme for Beorn in these tracks?

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The TORn review for example says there is no theme for Beorn. Let me see ...

In "Wilderland", from 0:48-0:58, and 1:45-2:15, 2:22-2:31, then the action variation that follows, around 3:15, then slow and ominous from 4:09 to the end. Almost the entire track is an exploration of Beorn's theme.

Then in "The House of Beorn", it starts with the beginning of the theme ascending, passing from the first violins to the flutes, until about 0:26. This is immediately followed by a wonderfully gnarly reading of the theme by lower celli, harmonized with the bassoons.

In between is the first statement of the motif for Mirkwood, followed by the Woodland Realm, then again Mirkwood. Not sure if the boy soprano is singing Beorn's motif.

But starting around 3:05, the violin sections gather a last rousing statement of Beorn's theme.

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I dunno.... I think you're stretching. Most of those timestamps don't contain the same melody as each other to my ears. And the ones that do are just a kind of generic rising figure. I dunno.

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Nah, "Wilderland" almost certainly is the music for the company being chased by Beorn, and I'm pretty sure that is the same motif at those timestamps. Maybe someone with a better ear/pitch can support this.

Shore gives a motif to everything and everyone in these films, he won't leave out an icon like Beorn.

Why not ask the horse? Is the motif at the beginning of The House Of Beorn his theme, Doug?

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I see the boy soprano material in House of Beorn and The High Fells as a theme for The Nine or the Witch King himself (note how the original Descending Third motif caps it off). I remember Shore saying how he used a boy sopranos for The Seduction of the Ring to represent lost youth, and the promise of eternal life. This would play into that association.

As note the very similar orchestration to when Gandalf repels the Ringwraiths before the gates of Minas Tirith in ROTK.

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I see the boy soprano material in House of Beorn and The High Fells as a theme for The Nine or the Witch King himself (note how the original Descending Third motif caps it off). I remember Shore saying how he used a boy sopranos for The Seduction of the Ring to represent lost youth, and the promise of eternal life. This would play into that association.

As note the very similar orchestration to when Gandalf repels the Ringwraiths before the gates of Minas Tirith in ROTK.

Yeah that last point occurred to me too. That's the only real reason it would appear in The High Fells when it does (since we've seen that scene), isn't it, if it's associated with them? Perhaps the earlier appearance is prompted by a mention of the Nazgul by Beorn or someone else?

I'm not saying we haven't heard Beorn's theme, but I haven't been able to pick anything out as it.

Also, what's the Thrain theme that you mentioned in the other thread? I didn't know there was one.

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The themes from AUJ seem to be mostly left behind

That's a shame. Especially regarding Bilbo's themes, the Company's theme(s) and Gandalf's.

Yeah. The company theme is entirely discarded but a new dwarven theme (similar to Dwarrowdelf from LotR) takes its place in the latter half of the score or so I at the moment interpret its meaning to be, which is introduced when the company sees Erebor for the first time. It might have to do with their reclaiming of their homeland.

Bilbo's Fussy Theme makes a couple of appearances and his Baggins/Took material is subtly quoted a couple of times and the Pensive setting of the Shire theme makes the title card appearance plus pops up in The Courage of Hobbits but on the whole the Shire music is used very sparsely.

Gandalf's Primary Theme makes one short burst in the action material but the longer Secondary phrase is not used at all, which is a shame as this is such a wonderful pair of themes.

Azog Theme pops up in a few isolated instances as does the Warg Theme fragments but these are few and far between.

What was dubbed Thorin's Pride or Fate etc., the rising and falling Weakness and Redemption type of theme from AUJ is nowhere to be heard so I guess it was discarded or we gave it more significance than it actually had.

The Necromancer material is beginning more and more to take the form of the Mordor themes from LotR as Gandalf's mission reveals his true identity I think.

The Woodland Realm themes (I think there are multiple, one for Tauriel and an action motif plus the main theme heard already in the AUJ prologue) are surprisingly prominent throughout. Which is not bad since I really like this Elven material. :)

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Well we hear Bilbo's fussy theme a couple of times, and Gandalf's main theme is clearly heard later on (in 'The Hunters' I think?). And apparently that's a version of Gandalf's theme with the phrases flipped backwards at 2:30 in 'Quest for Erebor'.

I haven't heard Gandalf's secondary theme though. I suppose the possibilities for such a theme might be limited given the arc of his story. Or maybe Shore wanted as much new material on the album as possible, and we may hear it in the film? With Jackson God only knows how much different the film soundtrack will be. As I said before, I'd be genuinely stunned if we didn't hear the Company theme (there you go BB) in the film.

I saw the post in the other thread about Thrain's theme in the expanded 'A Spell of Concealment'. I observed from the samples that the opening part sounded like a troubled version of 'The Dwarf Lords'. Is that what others are hearing as well?

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Well we hear Bilbo's fussy theme a couple of times, and Gandalf's main theme is clearly heard later on (in 'The Hunters' I think?). And apparently that's a version of Gandalf's theme with the phrases flipped backwards at 2:30 in 'Quest for Erebor'.

I think that is Bilbo's Took/Baggins Theme and not Gandalf's theme.

And as I said above Gandalf's Theme is heard in A Spell of Concealment (1:20-26).

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Gandalf's Primary Theme makes one short burst in the action material but the longer Secondary phrase is not used at all, which is a shame as this is such a wonderful pair of themes.

Oh, yeah, I love that second phrase. I truly hope we'll get to hear it in TABA.

the Company theme (there you go BB).

:thumbup:

The problem I have with themes from AUJ not being reused in DOs is that it now seems this trilogy of scores won't feel like an unified whole as much as the LOTR scores do. It's the Star Wars prequels problem all over again! It's a shame, since it's one of the aspects of the LOTR scores I love the most.

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Well we hear Bilbo's fussy theme a couple of times, and Gandalf's main theme is clearly heard later on (in 'The Hunters' I think?). And apparently that's a version of Gandalf's theme with the phrases flipped backwards at 2:30 in 'Quest for Erebor'.

I think that is Bilbo's Took/Baggins Theme and not Gandalf's theme.

And as I said above Gandalf's Theme is heard in A Spell of Concealment (1:20-26).

Straight from the horse's mouth:

Corey Rivera @coreyprivera 10h

@DougAdamsMusic Is that a hint of the Rohan theme in "The Quest of Erebor" or am I hearing things?

Doug Adams @DougAdamsMusic 10h

@coreyprivera No Rohan. It's Gandalf with the phrases flipped backward.

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Well we hear Bilbo's fussy theme a couple of times, and Gandalf's main theme is clearly heard later on (in 'The Hunters' I think?). And apparently that's a version of Gandalf's theme with the phrases flipped backwards at 2:30 in 'Quest for Erebor'.

I think that is Bilbo's Took/Baggins Theme and not Gandalf's theme.

And as I said above Gandalf's Theme is heard in A Spell of Concealment (1:20-26).

Straight from the horse's mouth:

Corey Rivera ‏@coreyprivera 10h

@DougAdamsMusic Is that a hint of the Rohan theme in "The Quest of Erebor" or am I hearing things?

Doug Adams ‏@DougAdamsMusic 10h

@coreyprivera No Rohan. It's Gandalf with the phrases flipped backward.

Well then I have to accept that information/interpretation. I stand corrected. ;)

On the other hand Doug said in the liner notes that Gandalf's theme was affected by the Shire material so I guess I was hearing that in there.

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Gandalf's Primary Theme makes one short burst in the action material but the longer Secondary phrase is not used at all, which is a shame as this is such a wonderful pair of themes.

Oh, yeah, I love that second phrase. I truly hope we'll get to hear it in TABA.

the Company theme (there you go BB).

:thumbup: The problem I have with themes from AUJ not being reused in DOs is that it now seems this trilogy of scores won't feel like an unified whole as much as the LOTR scores do. It's the Star Wars prequels problem all over again! It's a shame, since it's one of the aspects of the LOTR scores I love the most.

Huh??

You're exaggerating. I didn't count them, but as far as I can remember, every new theme from AUJ is heard in DOS, except for the setting-specific themes like Goblintown. Just because the Plan 9 theme isn't there doesn't make it "the prequels all over again", not even close.

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Gandalf's Primary Theme makes one short burst in the action material but the longer Secondary phrase is not used at all, which is a shame as this is such a wonderful pair of themes.

Oh, yeah, I love that second phrase. I truly hope we'll get to hear it in TABA.

the Company theme (there you go BB).

:thumbup: The problem I have with themes from AUJ not being reused in DOs is that it now seems this trilogy of scores won't feel like an unified whole as much as the LOTR scores do. It's the Star Wars prequels problem all over again! It's a shame, since it's one of the aspects of the LOTR scores I love the most.

Huh??

You're exaggerating. I didn't count them, but as far as I can remember, every new theme from AUJ is heard in DOS, except for the setting-specific themes like Goblintown. Just because the Plan 9 theme isn't there doesn't make it "the prequels all over again", not even close.

No it's not even close but the focus is quite squarely on the dwarven themes, which in my opinion is only natural as the story is moving toward their homeland and the goal of their quest. On the first disc new themes are introduced in quite a rapid succession and they dominate but on the second disc the dwarven themes return with vengeance. :)

Even though Bilbo is right at the center of the story the Shire material is kept back, I guess a storytelling choice to let the new ideas come to the fore and develop.

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Yeah there's a logical thematic carry over. Things have switched though. What was prominent in AUJ is less so here and some of the sideline themes in AUJ (woodland realm and Smaug) come to the forefront in DOS. As you'd expect.

41rPZ8qlmUL.jpg

Another small back cover

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Yeah there's a logical thematic carry over. Things have switched though. What was prominent in AUJ is less so here and some of the sideline themes in AUJ (woodland realm and Smaug) come to the forefront in DOS. As you'd expect.

Yeah there is a shift of tone and focus here that's for sure. On the whole AUJ feels rather sunny and fun compared to DoS, which still has its fair share of bright moments but it is moodier on the whole.

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Again that makes perfect sense. AUJ was much sunnier but we're getting closer to the Middle-Earth we see in LOTR. AUJ was summer, LOTR was autumn.

Yeap. Fully agreed.

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Huh??

You're exaggerating. I didn't count them, but as far as I can remember, every new theme from AUJ is heard in DOS, except for the setting-specific themes like Goblintown. Just because the Plan 9 theme isn't there doesn't make it "the prequels all over again", not even close.

I'm not exaggerating, I'm just saying how I feel based on your comments. I still haven't heard a single note from the score.

And it's nots just about Plan 9's theme (when did I ever said it was, anyway?), it's Bilbo's theme, it's Gandalf's theme, it's Shore's own Company theme, etc... which, according to people's comments, do return, but only very briefly, which I find to be a shame.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm sure I'll love the score (a lot more than AUJ), but I'm starting to wonder if The Hobbit musical trilogy will feel as much as an unified whole as LOTR did (again, it's just based on the posts I've read in this thread). That is all.

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We've only heard the standard edition so far (at least some of us). How many more minutes are there to hear in the special edition?

The SE is about 13 minutes longer if I remember correctly.

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Wizard themes are never late anyway, they arrive precisely when they mean to!

Well I hope they would hurry up anyway! ;)

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I dunno BB, it seems like the jump from Fellowship to Two Towers to me. There are lots of recurring themes just as there are lots of new themes. Rohan dominates TTT and that wasn't even present in Fellowship. The prominent themes in Fellowship returned but weren't as dominant as they were.

I think you'll be quite pleased if I'm honest. ;)


I love the Bilbo material in Barrels out of Bond :D

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Well if are all consoling BB as he refuses to listen to this music before he sees the film, then yes it is all going to be alright. You are probably going to like this score very much BB. ;)

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I still wish the standard edition was 1 disc and the special edition 2 discs.

Well it would make the Special Edition more special that's for sure.

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The special edition is nearly as long as the length of the film so unless the film has lots of alternates I don't we'll be getting complete recordings.

The SE is about 130 min. (with 5 minute Sheeran song included) so the film at 161 minutes will be more than half an hour longer still.

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With AUJ there was no point having new sessions as some of the cut material had already been recorded. DOS might be different. The EE could be longer but we won't know for awhile. the NZSO certainly makes it easier for them now I guess.

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With AUJ there was no point having new sessions as some of the cut material had already been recorded. DOS might be different. The EE could be longer but we won't know for awhile. the NZSO certainly makes it easier for them now I guess.

Easier yes but not any cheaper. (Unless PJ is getting secret NZ subsidies for sponsoring a local orchestra or something. ;) )

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With AUJ there was no point having new sessions as some of the cut material had already been recorded. DOS might be different. The EE could be longer but we won't know for awhile. the NZSO certainly makes it easier for them now I guess.

Easier yes but not any cheaper. (Unless PJ is getting secret NZ subsidies for sponsoring a local orchestra or something. ;) )

Well they might be cheaper than the LPO to hire out plus I'm sure Wellington Town Hall is cheaper than Abbey Road to use.

2 minutes wouldn't be worth the cost. 15-20 minutes might be. It is far to early to tell however as we don't know whether some of the SE will cover music for the EE (as in the White Council track from AUJ).

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With AUJ there was no point having new sessions as some of the cut material had already been recorded. DOS might be different. The EE could be longer but we won't know for awhile. the NZSO certainly makes it easier for them now I guess.

Easier yes but not any cheaper. (Unless PJ is getting secret NZ subsidies for sponsoring a local orchestra or something. ;) )

Well they might be cheaper than the LPO to hire out plus I'm sure Wellington Town Hall is cheaper than Abbey Road to use.

2 minutes wouldn't be worth the cost. 15-20 minutes might be. It is far to early to tell however as we don't know whether some of the SE will cover music for the EE (as in the White Council track from AUJ).

It really depends on how they dealt with the EE material. Did they do work with the extra footage already on the primary recording sessions or do they intend to come back to do the revised music later. But of course a more significant amount of extra material would probably prompt new recording sessions.

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With AUJ there was no point having new sessions as some of the cut material had already been recorded. DOS might be different. The EE could be longer but we won't know for awhile. the NZSO certainly makes it easier for them now I guess.

Easier yes but not any cheaper. (Unless PJ is getting secret NZ subsidies for sponsoring a local orchestra or something. ;) )

Well they might be cheaper than the LPO to hire out plus I'm sure Wellington Town Hall is cheaper than Abbey Road to use.

2 minutes wouldn't be worth the cost. 15-20 minutes might be. It is far to early to tell however as we don't know whether some of the SE will cover music for the EE (as in the White Council track from AUJ).

It really depends on how they dealt with the EE material. Did they do work with the extra footage already on the primary recording sessions or do they intend to come back to do the revised music later. But of course a more significant amount of extra material would probably prompt new recording sessions.

Jackson cuts with the EE in mind and I think he does them side by side now. We might get some EE length info in interviews. We shall have to keep our eyes peeled.

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I really think the EE of DoS will add a lot more, about 25 minutes, given the shorter theatrical time and the additional shooting block, where Jackson would no doubt have given himself more material for the EE. In which case, surely this time extra recording sessions will be required in the Spring (fingers crossed). We'll get more quieter character moments there so the more gentle themes (Bilbo, Gandalf) might get more of a workout. The close of TABA will offer a lot of scope for these themes as well.

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