Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

[KK 3,307]

Bah humbug!

[Faleel 5,340]

The whole setpiece!

[MedigoScan 324]

Any ideas for titles on the split cues?

well really some cues could be split up and then split back together again, like the end of Smaug behind Liar and a Thief

[Faleel 5,340]

Kings Foil (the first half about,

Could you elaborate slightly?

[MedigoScan 324]

the first 40 or so seconds play when Legolas leaves to chase the orcs and Tauriel stays behind and takes the Kingsfoil from Bofur

then the scene proceeds with something I didnt recognize from the score

the rest of Kings Foil isnt played until we return to that scene later

[Warren Peace 3]

People say Sheeran's song clashes with Shore's score, which is true. But in the film's context, I think that digression is justifiable. The song underscores a moment of great change in the narrative ("what have we done?"). SOTLM cheers the company on when they consider themselves righteous. "I See Fire" sees that righteousness tattered . It's a musical left turn representing a dramatic one.

One can rationalise everything.

In my book, it's just an awful dramatic choice.

One can separate one's distaste for the song without deeming it inappropriate. Besides, the song's not such a wild left turn in the cycle of these themes. If it's an awful dramatic choice, so is "Into The West". It's the exact same type of thing.

No, it's not. Into The West worked because it's supposed to represent the Fourth Age of Middle-Earth, so it being slightly different from the rest of the score made sense and worked because of that. And the melody used in that song was a theme from the score.

I See Fire is just some random guy who came to New-Zealand, watched the film once, then wrote the song a few hours after that. There were no thoughts put into it, trying to make it fit with the rest of the score or at the very least make it fit with the Middle-Earth universe.

Sheeran is just some random performer, but Enya/Lennox/Finn/Faux-Bjork weren't, I guess. Lyrically, "I See Fire" is more explicitly connected to its film than "Into The West". Lennox's track only obliquely references ROTK (which is fine). Sheeran name checks characters, dialogue, locations, history, and motivations, among other things. So some thought was put into the Middle-Earth connection.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yep!

[Bilbo 3,709]

Does the heroic version of Gandalf's theme from Dol Goldur remind anyone else of the theme song to the old 90's X-Men cartoon? Just something about it that reminds me of that theme tune.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Teenage voice?

What are you smoking?

[Faleel 5,340]

(although... Oh, misty eye of the mountain below... Seriously?)

What is the problem with that one?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Teenage voice?

He doesn't sound like an adult.

[Warren Peace 3]

I know, right? The guy should grow a few more chest hairs if he expects to sing the end titles of a children's story.

[Faleel 5,340]

children's story

Some children's stories are pretty messed up

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Hobbit is a children's story. A fairytale, though admittedly based upon Beowulf.

[Richard Penna 3,675]

Sheeran name checks characters, dialogue, locations, history, and motivations, among other things. So some thought was put into the Middle-Earth connection.

The lyrics are fine, I guess (although... Oh, misty eye of the mountain below... Seriously?). But the melody, Sheeran's teenage voice, the pop sound of it all... I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound Middle-Earthey at all to me (at least, not the Middle-Earth established in Jackson's films and Shore's scores).

It may not sound Middle-Earth-ey (and it sure as hell doesn't) but it will appeal to many people who will have little interest in Shore's music.

This is a small part of the reason I hate this song as much as I do - it's all marketing. They clearly want this soundtrack to appeal to as many as possible, and are doing it in part with mutual public sucking-up to a popular artist. Is that not a sign that they're trying to sell the CD outside of its normal market appeal?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

It bothers me that it's the only song so far that starts immediately with no Shore lead in. There's only one reason why that would be done and it's not an artistic one.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Which is?

[Faleel 5,340]

Tell us the secret!

Hold his toes over the fire!

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Which is that they want people to hear his voice, recognizable to fans, before they're out of the theater.

[mstrox 6,647]

My thinking was exactly the opposite - that the silence leading into a quieter song without a lot of instrumentation was an intentional punctuation of Bilbo's "Oh shit" moment at the end of the movie (and an effective one, at that)

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Hmm, well, I'm glad it works for you. It just rubs me slightly the wrong way.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm with Mike.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

We're both Mike.

[Jay 37,319]

I began comparing the film to OST last night, but only got up through the end of "The Forest River", so no new notes from me on Chronological-ness - As previously reported by me and confirmed by MedigoScan, everything through that point on the OST is chronological, at least as compared to the final film.

I only found about 3 minutes of unreleased music in this first act of the film. Nothing terribly interesting, though I really like the mostly unreleased cue that immediately follows "Barrels out of Bond", wish it had been included in full on the OST. Specific track notes:


QUEST FOR EREBOR
0:00-1:50 = opening logos, titles, Bree establishing shot, Thorin walks towards Prancing Pony, ends with Thorin's Theme as his face is shown.

1:50-end = Thorin notices men approaching him, he reaches for his sword, Gandalf shows up, they begin to talk. Everything from 2:27-end of the cue was dialed out in the film, including Gandalf's theme (it would have played under "allow me to introduce myself, I'm Gandalf, Gandalf The Grey")

*Then there is some unreleased music that plays in between this cue and the next, around a minute total probably (the middle 12 seconds of the cue is dialed out in the film)*

WILDERLAND
0:00-1:45 = End of Gandalf and Thorin's talk, transition to present day, Bilbo sees wargs and Beorn, title card, Bilbo rejoins group. The film version runs about 27 seconds longer, likely meaning the OST track is microedited.

1:45-end = The company runs through the Wilderland into Beorn's house. 3:41-end isn't used in the film, though in all likelihood it's the continuation of the cue meant to underscore their conversation about being safe for the night in the house.

A NECROMANCER
0:00-0:30 = Bolg shows up and tells Azog the master wants to speak to him

0:30-end = Bilbo takes out his ring at night, stares at it,transition to Dol Goldur where Azog talks to Sauron. 1:27-2:09 of the cue is dialed out, but still syncs to picture.

HOUSE OF BEORN
0:00-0:29 = the short cue for Bilbo waking up with the bee, and walking through the barn.
0:29-1:03 = ??. This wasn't used in the film, it could be for some part of the breakfast conversation
1:03-2:09 = the end of the breakfast conversation
2:09-4:12 = the deleted Beorn/Gandalf conversation scene.
4:12-end = the company departing Beorn's and arriving at Mirkwood. Likely not a separate cue but recorded with the previous, but this is the only part used in the theatrical cut.

*There's a small bit of music next in the film that is either unreleased, or just tracked music, covering Gandalf entering the Elven Gate*

MIRKWOOD
Not sure if this is made up of separate cues or not, but 0:37-1:18 was replaced by a rescore (or maybe tracked music) in the film. 4:44-end is dialed out, but still syncs to picture.

FLIES AND SPIDERS

0:00-2:28 = Bilbo goes up the tree, sees Erebor, then trees moving, he gets captured by a spider

2:28-end = Long cue underscoring Bilbo freeing himself through all the dwarf/spider battles through Legolas and Tauriel arriving through their interrogation of the dwarves, even highlighting Legolas holding Orcrist. Out of this 7:07 cue, only 2:53 was used as intended, with the other 4:14 dialed out!

It breaks down like this:

2:28-3:11 (0:43) USED AS INTENDED, covering Bilbo awakening, killing a spider, cutting his webs, and putting the ring on
3:11-4:29 (1:18) DIALED OUT, meant to cover Bilbo in ringworld killing spiders
4:29-5:09 (0:40) USED AS INTENDED, covering Bilbo out of ringworld, naming his sword Sting, cutting all the dwarfs down, then being attacked by a spider
5:09-5:18 (0:09) DIALED OUT, meant to cover the ring falling away from Bilbo
5:18-5:36 (0:18) USED AS INTENDED, covering Bilbo and dwarfs fighting spiders
5:36-5:50 (0:14) DIALED OUT, meant to cover the dwarfs ripping that one spider's legs off
5:50-6:00 (0:10) USED AS INTENDED, covering Bilbo seeing the ring, approaching it...
6:00-6:44 (0:44) DIALED OUT, meant to cover Bilbo violently fighting that weird spider thing
6:44-7:23 (0:39) USED AS INTENDED, covering Bilbo seeing the ring once he's killed the spider, picking it up, staring at it, covers him mouth
7:23-7:47 (0:24) DIALED OUT, meant to cover Legolas's big entrance
7:47-8:10 (0:23) USED AS INTENDED, covering Kili in trouble and Tauriel saving him
8:10-end (1:25) DIALED OUT, meant to cover the interrogation of the company by Legolas

Phew!

THE WOODLAND REALM
0:00-1:45 = The company is taken into the woodland realm, Thranduil is shown, company put in jail cells. A little shortened in the film.
*Then there's some music in the film that is either unreleased or tracked, as Balin says they'll never get out without the king's consent, and it transitions to Thorin/Thranduil*
1:45-3:18 = Thranduil proposes he will set the copmany free in exchange for white gems inside Erebor, Thorin denies the proposal
3:18-4:07 = Thorin says Thror's greed summoned Smaug, has Thorin taken away
*Then there's a short unreleased cue where Thorin tells Balin a deal with Thranduil was not their only hope, and it transition to Bilbo spying on Thranduil*
4:07-end = The end of Thranduil and Tauriel's conversation, discussing Legolas

FEAST OF STARLIGHT
One single cue, meant to play uninterrupted in the film. 2:18-end was dialed out, but still syncs perfectly with the final cut of the film. The History of the Ring statement would have played as Bilbo spies on the elves in the ringworld.

BARRELS OUT OF BOND
A single cue, which plays completely in the film! Actually, the film version is a little longer (by about 25 seconds), the OST track is likely microedited.

THE FOREST RIVER
0:00-0:20 and 0:20-0:32 are two parts of the mostly unreleased cue I mentioned above that plays right after BOOB, covering Bilbo falling into the river, and them all floating out of the cave towards the gate

Then in the film comes a 22 second unreleased cue, following by a 21 second unreleased cue (the Bolg material). After that, from what I can tell, 0:43-end of the OST track was meant to play as one piece, though several portions were dialed out (1:57-2:29, 3:24-3:45, and 4:25-4:48), giving the illusion that the scene was scored in a "stop and start" fashion, which it wasn't! Also of note is that there's about 15 seconds music microedited out of the OST track at 3:49.

That's all for now!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The road goes ever on and on!

[Faleel 5,340]

7:23-7:47 (0:24) DIALED OUT, meant to cover Legolas's big entrance

That was replaced with some kind of percussion/sound effects right?

[Jay 37,319]

The music was dialed out, and only sounds effects play, yes.

~

I just updated my previous post with a ton more information, check it out.

[Faleel 5,340]

BOOB

Heh.

[MedigoScan 324]

that seems about right from what I remember, allthough I should add that

6:00-6:44 (0:44) DIALED OUT, meant to cover Bilbo violently fighting that weird spider thing

a bit from this was tracked to earlier in the scene, right as the spider lands on top of Bombur and goes crazy with its pincers

I am also pretty sure Barrels in Bond was extended a bit, but I cant be sure of that

[Jay 37,319]

Yes, I noted down that Barrels out of Bond runs for 2:14 in the film, I assume the OST track is microedited.

[Faleel 5,340]

Aaauuj!

The music was dialed out, and only sounds effects play, yes.

Actually it seems to have been replaced by Percussion and cymbals..

[Jay 37,319]

If you say so.

[Faleel 5,340]

Yes, I noted down that Barrels out of Bond runs for 2:14 in the film, I assume the OST track is microedited.

It might be in the last Brassy portion.. not sure.

[MedigoScan 324]

it definitely had some kind of instrument

still a weird idea to just take away the score music there

Yes, I noted down that Barrels out of Bond runs for 2:14 in the film, I assume the OST track is microedited.

It might be in the last Brassy portion.. not sure.

It definitely sounded like they added a few more bangs at the end, but that wouldnt add 24 entire seconds

[Bilbo 3,709]

Yes it is symbols. I find the lack of "music" less drastic there than others but I do think it's sorely missing in his fight with Bolg. A short close quarters fight with no music can work but I think this was too long to be without music.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

The first part of Wilderland is slightly extended in the film (or, presumably, slightly reduced on the CD - although I don't hear an edit).

[Jay 37,319]

EDIT! I thought he said Mirkwood, not Wilderland, so all this is irrelevant!

No, it's not - I pointed that out above.

0:00-0:37 play out in the film.

0:37-1:18 are NOT used in the film, however, a revised cue (or Insert I guess) plays in its place

then 1:18-4:44 plays in the film (then 4:44-end are dialed out)

So it's not really an extension, just a case of the album having the original version of a bit while the film has a revised version.

Unless, of course, the music on the OST from 0:37-1:18 is for a deleted scene, and the 40 seconds of music that plays in the film instead is an unreleased section underscoring something different..... but the original OST track seemed to fit the scene well.

[Faleel 5,340]

On 12/23/2013 at 2:18 PM, MedigoScan said:

It definitely sounded like they added a few more bangs at the end, but that wouldnt add 24 entire seconds

I think some silences are extended as well.

Perhaps the Dwarves getting into the Barrels is extended slightly..

 

 

 

HEY! does this have unreleased music!?

http://spidersofmirkwood.thehobbit.com/

YES ITS THE UNRELEASED PRE-THE FOREST RIVER CUE!!!!!!!1!!11!Q1111!!!!!

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

0:00-0:37 play out in the film.

Perhaps dotage is getting the better of me, but I don't think that's quite right. The omission I was talking about begins at 0:30 on the CD and (I would guess, though I haven't seen the film for nearly a week now) lasts around seven seconds. I was under the impression that it then rejoined the CD exactly where it had left off.

[Jay 37,319]

HEY! does this have unreleased music!?

http://spidersofmirkwood.thehobbit.com/

YES ITS THE UNRELEASED PRE-THE FOREST RIVER CUE!!!!!!!1!!11!Q1111!!!!!

Holy crap!

[MedigoScan 324]

arent we confusing Wilderland with Mirkwood here?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

There is definitely more music in BOOB, but it's mostly just lengthened held chords and maybe two extended phrases of the low brass punctuations.

[Jay 37,319]

arent we confusing Wilderland with Mirkwood here?

OH! You're right! I was replying as if you were talking about Mirkwood, not Wilderland!!!!

Yes, I noted that the first cue in the Wilderland track, which runs 1:45 on CD, runs 2:12 in the film, so the OST must be microedited again, removing about 30 seconds of music.

Once the film arrives on home video, we'll be able to point out the exact points where the microedits are in Wilderland and Barrels Out of Bond.

[Faleel 5,340]

Also, it seems that the bit of The Forest River that is in the Spider game is the film mix, which is dryer.

Barrel escape also has some music, though I don't exactly recognize it.

[Jay 37,319]

Which file is the cue?

My downloadhelper is showing me:

lose.ogg, loop_boss.ogg, win.ogg, loop.ogg, lose.ogg, win.ogg, loop)ring.ogg, and loop_boss_old.ogg

[Faleel 5,340]

And some of Barrels out of Bond, not sure if its any different.

Which file is the cue?

My downloadhelper is showing me:

lose.ogg, loop_boss.ogg, win.ogg, loop.ogg, lose.ogg, win.ogg, loop)ring.ogg, and loop_boss_old.ogg

I don't know, I would think Loop.ogg would be it, though I would Download all of them, just incase they are all unreleased.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,340]

The lose.ogg file have an unreleased bit (I think). The rest is stuff on the OST (Wilderland, A Spell Of Concealment...).

I think lose.ogg might be from The High Fells.

and are you sure that Wilderland file does not have the film insert?