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Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice


crocodile

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This is such a weird way of starting a shared universe. When you look at comments on Civil War you see a ton of fans arguing about which characters are cooler, which ones have a point, and they seem to get into the drama of the thing. Here, I don't see such thing, because it's the SECOND MOVIE (and probably because of the whole "most writers don't know how to write Superman as a character" problem).

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4 minutes ago, E.T. and Elliot said:

Not that we know of. But she acts positively psychotic when she fights. I'm sure she's a killer too.

 

In the trailers she had a more powerful presence/look that the other two. Very subjective from me, of course. Funny, because one of the other two is Superman.

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8 minutes ago, Brónach said:

This is such a weird way of starting a shared universe. When you look at comments on Civil War you see a ton of fans arguing about which characters are cooler, which ones have a point, and they seem to get into the drama of the thing. Here, I don't see such thing, because it's the SECOND MOVIE (and probably because of the whole "most writers don't know how to write Superman as a character" problem).

 

It's basically DC trying to make up for lost time. That's why the Justice League stuff often feels like it's slotted in awkwardly into an already quite dense film.

I actually thought the insertion of Batman and Gotham into the MOS universe was done rather well. Though visually there doesnt seem to be a great distinction between either.

 

The thing is. the MCU started out with fairly modest action climaxes, while in DC's universe their first film completely levelled Metropolis, something Marvel didnt do until New York got trashed in their 6th film. Scale wise they can't really get much bigger unless they plan to get really galactic.

 

Two films in DC really NEEDS Suicide Squad to tone things down a little.

I have to say that BvS has made me look forward to Suicide Squad. I think that will be their deal breaker.

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You do have the classic Superman trope in this one where he shows up whenever Lois is in peril. It's also hilarious that during a pivotal scene, they show Clark Kent's photo in the newspaper where the lead story is about Superman and it should be obvious they're the same person!

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It's interesting that, like every other Superman film they give the character some glasses and a slightly different hairdo and he's unrecognisable as Superman. But Batman get a modulated voice so that he doesnt sound like Bruce Wayne.

 

Any comments on the dream scenes? The one where evil Supes kills Batman/the guy appearing from some vortex thing with a warning and Clark Kent meeting his dad on top of a mountain (I had no idea Coster would be in this)

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46 minutes ago, Brónach said:

In the trailers she had a more powerful presence/look that the other two. Very subjective from me, of course. Funny, because one of the other two is Superman.

 

Not having seen BvS yet, I agree that WW's presence at the end of the final trailer was much more powerful than Batman and/or Superman.  I can't explain it either, but there was something about her facial expression and pose that was great.  She seemed to have "something".  Shame I have no interest in seeing this.  I might see her standalone film just on the strength of what I saw from her in the BvS trailer.

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1 hour ago, Sharky said:

The wildly eccentric Armond White, my favourite living film critic, likes it.

 

 

I haven't seen the film, so I can't say if I agree, but Armond White should have been left in the loony bin.

 

Ebert tellin' it like it is:

"I am forced to conclude that White is, as charged, a troll."

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I saw the movie today. I really dislike the score except for those badass electric guitars when WW appears during the climatic fight. It was a real "wow" moment in the score that I didn't expect. Rest of the score is pretty rubbish though.

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7 hours ago, Taikomochi said:

I haven't seen the film, so I can't say if I agree, but Armond White should have been left in the loony bin.

 

Nah, it's too easy to dismiss him as a troll or nutter. Admittedly he writes with a broader brush when reviewing blockbusters or fanboys' sacred cows, which doesn't always work in his favour. But even then, he always has something astute to say, thanks to being more versed in both film and 20thC pop culture than most critics, who are little more than overpaid industry shills.

 

Other than White, I respect Ignatiy Vishnevetsky. He kinda liked BvS because of its lysergic qualities, which gives me hope.

 

http://www.avclub.com/video/our-critics-argue-case-batman-v-superman-234348

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Well, I don't like anything anymore, but I still liked Batman and overall the movie entertained me, despite not being exceptional. Were we really expecting that, anyway?

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We just got back from this.

 

It's an improvement over Man of Steel, and more distinctly a Snyder film.  It was actually interesting and satisfying to feel that same sensibility that made Watchmen so good at work again.  And the integration of the old with the new is well done, even to the point of making us forget the dreariness of the earlier film - it's exciting to see these people again, cool!  It's absolutely over the top.  I mean, how could it not be, but this movie pounds you into your seat unlike any other I can readily recall.  It is bloody loud and relentless.  But, it works. 

 

The score is brutal, but again, works.  The new Batman material really came together in-film and hit the spot for me, Whitacre's beautiful choral bit helps sell a scene that could easily be deemed utterly pointless and absurd**, and I loved to hear Zimmer's ethereal Superman stuff return on cinema speakers.  Actually, some of that most ethereal Krypton stuff accompanied that lovely shot early on of the Indian Ocean... what a weird splash of color and beauty that was, in this film! 

 

And the new Batman himself nails it too, a worthy successor - I'm sure I don't need to say how much of a Bale/Nolan fan I am to emphasize that.  Between him and Irons, there's a great sense of rapport and history.  Very wise to have him established rather than do yet another origin story.  Would have been dreadful. 

 

I loved Diana and love to finally have the character on screen for real, but wish she had more to do, at least squaring off with Batman (as in that one graphic novel I can't recall the title of) or something.  And the other cameos of the League were a bit dopey, weren't they?  And really, Cyborg instead of the Martian Manhunter?  That's a letdown.  But we'll see how it all plays out.

 

So, overall, I'd say DC has a chance to bring it all together, but they're right on the edge.  Work out a few of the remaining kinks, and they could breathe some fresh (or at least, less used) air into the overpopulated superhero movie universe.

 

 

 

**It's almost a descent into self-parody, like in the old Justice League cartoon, when Superman is constantly getting his ass kicked and screaming and getting thrown around, and now "killed."  Can we really be expected to grieve and mourn his "loss?"  But how can these stories exist without him being vulnerable?  How long can they keep coming up with ways to cripple him so that he's not a story-killer due to his omnipotence?  This has always been my problem with the character.

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His plan is to destroy all superheroes, the false gods, I guess... because he wants to be god?  Which is why he's collecting information on all of them and pitting them against each other and setting loose monstrosities?  Or was it all to "ring the bell" for whatever he's talking about with Batman in prison at the end?  I'm sure people who remember the comics better than I/had a better knowledge of it all in the first place are theorizing about that one.

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1 hour ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

It's absolutely over the top.  I mean, how could it not be, but this movie pounds you into your seat unlike any other I can readily recall.  It is bloody loud and relentless.  But, it works. 

*cough*Mad Max*cough*

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Got back from this recently as well.

 

I went in expecting to hate it, and came out rather surprised. A vast improvement over its dreary, lifeless predecessor. And as many before me have noted, Snyder's voice is much more distinctly heard here than it was in MoS. The film starts off on a high point with Batman's origin story, told in a heavily stylized opening credits sequence. It was like I was watching the Watchmen sequel, and I loved it. The rest of the doesn't quite stick with that tone, but consistently flirts with it, with deliciously dark tones for Batman and Gotham, and playful hallucination/dream sequences. It was just refreshing to see real character, something that MoS severely lacked. Both Affleck and Irons are great successors to the Nolan take, offering a less morally rigourous, but still sympathetic light to the character. It's with this new world, we see the film shine. Plus we finally get proper action sequences that are well choreographed, rather than those that were trying to coax seizures from the audience!

 

But they really should have stuck with making this a solo hero feature, whether it be MoS 2.0 or a Batman film. I think this would have been absolutely fantastic if they just let Snyder make an independent Batman feature, with the origin story neatly summed up in the opening credits as it is here, and showing the dark knight in his twilight years. I could also see the former working well with the whole "false god" premise. As it is, the film takes on too much and is just not sure what it wants to be (Superman sequel? Batman film? Justice League warm-up?), which is funnily enough, summed up accurately by its haphazard title. This is especially obvious when a hokey Justice-League montage interrupts the build to the climax of the film.

 

The final battle, perhaps expectedly so, is awful. Yes, the whole film is over-the-top, but nothing about Doomsday works. And when it came into the equation, we were going back back to the same problem MoS had. When you pit two God-like figures against each other, all the explosions, flashy lights, falling buildings just become meaningless and plain boring. But thankfully that didn't last too long.

 

Henry Cavill and Amy Adams disappointingly remain lifeless. I thought Cavill had great potential for the role when it was announced, and even after MoS, I thought it was simply the awful script that didn't let him shine, but he remains as boring as ever. Aside from the occasional light line, he continues to be a non-character. The writers, and even Cavill, clearly did not know what to do with him. And as a huge fan of Adams, its a shame to see such a great actress reduced to be so insufferable in these two films...talk about helpless! I guess it also doesn't help that they're given such corny lines for the picture. I'm glad Supes is "dead", if only we get a break from him for a bit. He remains one of the weakest parts of this franchise.

 

Eisenberg too was on the insufferable side of things. Though he has his moments (the whole "Grandma's iced tea" sequence was good fun!), he simply tries to hard. Just plays off as a poor Ledger-Joker impersonator. We get it, you're psychotic...now let's hope we don't have to see very much of you again.

 

On the other hand, Gadot is wonderful as Wonder Woman. Pity she didn't get much more to do throughout the film though. But man, her WW-entrance near the end was badass, and that's certainly helped by an awesome guitar/electric-cello riff. On that note, the score works well with the picture, and contrary to what's on screen, shines most for the Red Cape. Though still largely abusive, it fits the picture, and can be forgiven for its more poignant moments. Whitacre's choral elegy in the end was key to making the death scene of a character you've had very little attachment to, work.

 

I guess what this movie needs is a proper editor. Pacing is all over the place, with scenes cutting and extending where they shouldn't be. With a tighter grip, and some more restraint, you could have a really great superhero flick here. Still, I enjoyed it!

 

How this fared so badly with the critics is beyond me! I mean this got 20% less than the abysmal TASM 2 on RT?? Give me a break...

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Yes, it was edited pretty bizarrely in the early sections wasn't it?  I think it could be made more cohesive even with all of these things happening, just by reshuffling.

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13 hours ago, Stefancos said:

I have to say that BvS has made me look forward to Suicide Squad. I think that will be their deal breaker.

 

Do you have faith in Snyder?

 

8 hours ago, crocodile said:

"Christopher Nolan's delicate touch". 

 

 

:lol:

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