Star Wars ORIGINAL UNALTERED trilogy possibility(?) in HD!

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

John Knoll did speak a couple years ago about how they had mastered the Blu-Ray release in 4K originally, and downscaled it to 1080p for the set. So those are already done. The only issue, as others have said, would be episodes 2 and 3, which were completely digital, locked at 2K. 

 

AOTC for instance was filmed completely with the camera in the link below. ROTS I believe was shot with 2 different cameras, both locked at 2K.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/633399-REG/Sony_HDWF900RPAC1D_HDW_F900R_CineAlta_24P_HDCAM.html

[Chen G. 3,941]

Upscaling, done right, can still look bloody awesome.

[NL197 368]

4K77 and 4K83 are plenty good along with Harmy's versions. 

Hoping 4K80 is a reality sooner than later. 

Plenty of 4K Blu-rays are 2K sourced anyway. 

[deleted account 108]

Yes, the night scene of TPM where Qui-Gon tests Anakin's blood was shot with digital cameras (not even HD, I don't think, just digital) but Lucas kept it quiet for a long time to see if anyone would notice.

 

AOTC was shot entirely digitally, as was ROTS.  I remember when ROTS came out, the Arclight in Hollywood made a big deal about it screening with new 2k projectors.

[Laserschwert 473]

13 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

John Knoll did speak a couple years ago about how they had mastered the Blu-Ray release in 4K originally, and downscaled it to 1080p for the set. So those are already done.

That can't be true, because it's a known fact that the 2004 scans of the negatives were done only at 1080p. Worst of all, they originally weren't even meant to be used for a hi-def release, so all the work Lowry Digital did on it was only supposed to be seen downscaled to standard definition for the 2004 DVD release. Unfortunately Lucas didn't deem a new master necessary for the Blu-ray release in 2011, so that's why we got that crap we have now.

 

Some quotes from THIS article:

Quote

According to Videography, the negs were scanned on a Cintel C-Reality telecine, at 1920x1080 resolution, in 4:4:4 RGB, recorded to Sony SR tape.

Quote

Sound and Vision also questioned John Lowry about the unusual low-resolution of the release, a decision made by Lucasfilm and not his company, but he rather dodged the issue by alleging that the opticals were at less than 4K due to generational loss, but surmised that Lucas might re-do the entire process for an HD release. As it turns out, he hasn't, as the film has been shown many times on HD broadcasts using the HD master, although a re-do for Blu-Ray seems possible but unlikely. The exchange:

"Sound and Vision: So the Star Wars films were processed at high-def, but not at the 4K level --four times high-def resolution--that you've been using for some other films?
John Lowry: At high-def, yes.

SV:Why was that?
JL:The challenge with these films is the amount of special effects in them. Our concern was whether the effects were done to true 4K standards. Whenever anyone lit up a lightsaber, it was done with an optical effect, and all of the opticals at the time were done on film--there were no digital effects. So every time you go to a lightsaber scene, bang, you drop two generations of film. It gets grainier and, as it's going through an optical printer, you have different characteristics in terms of contrast. And those are things we have to match up with the scenes immediately before and after. It took a lot of effort to match precisely the granularity, the contrast, and the sharpness. They flow very nicely now and, frankly, in the original movies, there was a distinct change. We were able to eliminate that change, and to me that's a very strong contribution to the storytelling process--removing something that prevents an audience from being drawn in.

SV:But the high-def digital material was fine for the standard-resolution DVD release?
JL: Yes. My guess, knowing George, is that maybe he'll be back when they do the HD-DVD."

 

To be fair, with the current 4k fan projects both released and still in the works, I am more than content with the quality these provide, and can't imagine Disney putting the same amount of love and care into a restoration (also "fan projects" doesn't do these projects justice, as several industry professionals are working on them). I'd be happy to be proven wrong and will be the first in line buying BDs of a proper new scan of the original trilogy (IF they are the theatrical versions AND don't look as crappy as the current Blu-rays), but should that never happen, I'm good. Also: both SW and ROTJ look stunning in 4k!

[Chen G. 3,941]

11 minutes ago, Laserschwert said:

Whenever anyone lit up a lightsaber, it was done with an optical effect, and all of the opticals at the time were done on film--there were no digital effects. So every time you go to a lightsaber scene, bang, you drop two generations of film.

 

That's a good point.

 

We tend to think of CG effects as prohibiting a UHD transfer for most films. But in actual fact, optical effects that require some sort of compositing also mean that there isn't ever a true camera negative to scan a native UHD transfer from.

[Laserschwert 473]

Well, ultimately that's why most effects shots in the SW trilogy were done with VistaVision cameras, so that they already start with a much larger frame format, so that the generational loss is not as severe. But that only counts for VFX-only shots. Lightsabers, lasers and even subtitles composed into normal footage more clearly degrade the image. But it's still a good idea to scan at at least 4k, so that any cleanup can be done at much higher quality. Also, films that use optical visual effects usually contain relatively few effects shots (ROTJ is probably very high up the list), so even if that's the argument, scanning at 4k still makes sense for all the rest of the film. Also one should not forget that restoration technology has advanced VERY much since the 2004 masters were done, and cleaning up the trilogy with modern software will result in a much, much better presentation.

[Holko 9,491]

That's true in some way, but if you do have the original elements, you can just rescan them and digitally recreate the composite with probably a lot less effort. All the optical wipes were redone for the SEs from the raw footage to get rid of the exta grain the composite inevitably added.

[Laserschwert 473]

15 minutes ago, Holko said:

That's true in some way, but if you do have the original elements, you can just rescan them and digitally recreate the composite with probably a lot less effort. All the optical wipes were redone for the SEs from the raw footage to get rid of the exta grain the composite inevitably added.

Yes, and some of the bluescreen shots of ships were redone as well. That would have been an acceptable way to create special editions, but revisionism went way out of hand with further released. Also, for film-history's sake, just restore the damn originals. If "The Wizard of Oz" can get a fantastic 4k restoration (or was it even 8k?), why won't a film series as significant as SW get treated the same way?

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

3 hours ago, Laserschwert said:

That can't be true, because it's a known fact that the 2004 scans of the negatives were done only at 1080p. Worst of all, they originally weren't even meant to be used for a hi-def release, so all the work Lowry Digital did on it was only supposed to be seen downscaled to standard definition for the 2004 DVD release. Unfortunately Lucas didn't deem a new master necessary for the Blu-ray release in 2011, so that's why we got that crap we have now. 

I slightly misspoke, but am still correct. John Knoll did say that 4K masters were in fact completed, but they weren't finished until 2016.

[Laserschwert 473]

That would fit the timeline, yeah. Gareth Edwards said he saw a 4k version of ANH in preparation for "Rogue One" (and obviously used some outtakes in the film). Still, it remains to be seen if these new masters represent the Special Editions, the theatrical cuts or maybe even some new iterations of the films. Did they use the optical title cards and crawls, or recreate them digitally? Did they preserve the foreign language crawls (which were all created by ILM as well)? Which audio mixes were used?

[Jay 37,267]

40 minutes ago, Laserschwert said:

That would fit the timeline, yeah. Rian Johnson said he saw a 4k version of ANH in preparation for "Rogue One" (and obviously used some outtakes in the film). 

 

Rian Johnson directed Episode 8, not Rogue One.

[Laserschwert 473]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Rian Johnson directed Episode 8, not Rogue One.

Ah, of course, I meant Gareth Edwards. Thanks, fixed!

[Holko 9,491]

Though Johnson did also use outtakes... raw dailies they found of the Leia hologram message from different angles.

[Chen G. 3,941]

Wasn't the Leia hologram CG?

 

 

 

 

[Holko 9,491]

no

[Laserschwert 473]

Cool, I assumed it was CG as well.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Imagine an unaltered Original trilogy.  

 

Just Star Wars. None of a new hope bullshit. 

 

Thats a first day release purchase.

[Holko 9,491]

They explained it in... Director and the Jedi, maybe?

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

1 hour ago, Laserschwert said:

Still, it remains to be seen if these new masters represent the Special Editions, the theatrical cuts or maybe even some new iterations of the films.

Why it's the '97 version of the Special Edition of course!

 

[Holko 9,491]

Yep, that's the ones we do know exist in complete form on film in the Lucasfilm archives.

[Wojo 2,453]

1 hour ago, JoeinAR said:

Imagine an unaltered Original trilogy.  

 

Just Star Wars. None of a new hope bullshit. 

 

Thats a first day release purchase.

 

Earlier, friendo. Pre-order! 

[John 2,032]

I wonder, should this actually happen, if the first six Star Wars episodes will finally be made available in 4K on Vudu, iTunes, etc. Would be a nice bonus. 

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I am most offended by the assault on ESB. The wonderful surprise is completely ruined by the special edition changes.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

1 hour ago, JoeinAR said:

I am most offended by the assault on ESB. The womderful surprise is completely ruined by the special edition changes.

There's not really many changes in ESB. No significant ones anyway.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

I have the VHS tapes pre-1997. ESB's most notable changes are the Emperor's hologram message, Boba Fett's voice, and....I don't know what else there might be. I forget.

[NL197 368]

16 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

There's not really many changes in ESB. No significant ones anyway.

The race to escape Cloud City was totally ruined by the pacing-destroying inclusion of the Vader returning to his shuttle / Return of the Jedi leftovers.

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

1 hour ago, John said:

I wonder, should this actually happen, if the first six Star Wars episodes will finally be made available in 4K on Vudu, iTunes, etc. Would be a nice bonus. 

 

They'd be available on Vudu, FandangoNOW, Google Play, and Amazon for sure. Unfortunately, there are no 4K Disney movies on iTunes, probably because Apple refuses to price 4K movies higher than HD.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

45 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

There's not really many changes in ESB. No significant ones anyway.

Yes there is. 

[crumbs 14,287]

6 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Why it's the '97 version of the Special Edition of course!

 

The irony of a 4K remaster using that '97 special edition, when every effects shot completed in the late 90s will be locked at 1080p (or lower) resolution, just like all the effects shots in Jurassic Park (that they don't want to scan from the OCN and re-composite the effects into).

[Laserschwert 473]

40 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

The irony of a 4K remaster using that '97 special edition, when every effects shot completed in the late 90s will be locked at 1080p (or lower) resolution

Which includes all the digitally recomposed space scenes. It's hard to believe they struck a 4k scan from that.

 

I'd say it's more likely they had tons of release prints in the vault to scan.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Being locked at 1080p will give it a charming mid-2000s look.

[Jay 37,267]

Drax is back!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Who?

[Jay 37,267]

What?

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I wonder what 4K versions of Episodes II and III would be like. The prequels are the only ones that matter.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

They need to be viewed on a THX certified screen for optimal picture quality.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Optimized with the blue filter glasses.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I miss the 1997 Special Edition font. They need to bring that back.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Now, 20 years later, using new digital technology, Lucas and his creative teams at LucasFilm, THX, Skywalker Sound and Industrial Light and Magic have completely restored, enhanced and added to these classic movies to create the Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

1 hour ago, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

I wonder what 4K versions of Episodes II and III would be like. The prequels are the only ones that matter.

Well we'll never know since they were filmed with 1080p cameras. 😐

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Revenge of the Sith is the only one of the six that's looked totally consistent from theaters to DVD to hi-def.

 

I saw Episode II in three different theatrical versions. The "standard" print looked a bit washed out but when it was released on DVD, I thought the colors were boosted a bit unnaturally. I seem to recall confirming this when I saw the IMAX version. The BD looks very teal.

 

Episode One was soft and a bit washed out on the first home video release, the DVD had a purple tint, notable print damage with resulting specks, apparently incorrect framing that cropped some of the image and looked overly sharpened. The BD corrects many of these issues and is closer to the correct look of the trailers on DVD disc 2, however DNR was applied. My theory is that the increase in resolution may have had an awkward effect on the VFX, as with Jurassic Park where the Brachiosaurus scene looks very odd and DNR was used to mask these anomalies.

 

Masters of the Universe and Star Trek Generations both have a noticeable green tint on BD.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

Man I hate the DNR on the TPM Blu-ray. It looks way too smooth, and unnatural. I liked the specks and "anomalies" on the DVD, to me it had a more "classic" look because of all it's blemishes.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I liked the specks in the DVD version. Looked more film-like. Revenge of the Sith has a nice fine layer of grain on Blu-ray.

[Arpy 4,145]

Did a marathon of all the films before seeing TFA with a couple of friends and we all noticed how well Revenge of the Sith held up, of course there were some iffy CGI in places, but the production design, the cinematography and overall look were still amazing. 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I even like how sometimes there's a blue outline on the actors, as if they're being partially teleported into some kind of other dimension.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

They're trying to save Carol Anne.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

STEVEN NOT YET

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

You left the actors and you only moved the green screen! Why? Why?!

[Jay 37,267]

George Lucas Shows Off Original Unaltered Cut Of Star Wars Publicly For First Time