SCORE: Presumed Innocent

[indy4 155]

This will be far from a complete review...just some thoughts I had while I gave the OST a listen with my undivided attention, shamefully for the first time.

From what I can tell, there are three main themes: the Angela's Ashes-esque piano ostinato, the lyrical love theme and a second ostinato based in the Dies Irae. All of these are great, especially as heard in the magnificent concert piece JW wrote for the film. The problem is, for much of the album they recieve countless virtually identical variations on piano, synth and strings. The tracks are fine when enjoyed individually, but when placed together as a whole there's a LOT of redundancy. Tracks that develop the material in an interesting way, like "Leon Talks," "Basement Scene" or the confession track are the saving grace, but they are few and far between.

The penultimate track ("----'s Confession") is a fascinating closing, one that brilliantly depicts an reluctant and uneasy acceptance of a tortured life. The devolution to this point is cool, although I wish it started earlier. I also love the sparsity of the instrumentation. It's not a very complex one for Williams, but it is powerful.

I ended up making a playlist for this score, and eliminating the tracks I felt were redundant. It's not a perfect playlist, as some of the redundant stuff is mixed in with the new, but I was able to reduce the score to 9 tracks (maybe 8--haven't decided if I'm keeping the "End Titles" yet) at just under 30 minutes. The rest I'll listen to individually, but not as a part of the larger score. My playlist is:

1. Love Scene

2. Family Life

3. Bedroom Scene

4. Carolyn's Office

5. "Leon Talks"

6. Case Dismissed

7. Basement Scene

8. ------'s Confessin

9. End Titles (maybe)

Anyways, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the score and the album. It's not one that gets a lot of discussion around here.

[Incanus 5,713]

Presumed Innocent is a very subtle and effective score in the context of the film, capturing the atmosphere and rather grey hued feel of the whole story. Almost everything in the film seems to be muted, the cinematography adding a touch of realism with a rather ordinary every-day palette to the whole affair. Williams' music if not exactly follows suit is imbued to a certain degree with this same sensibility. I would say it is entirely based on the psychology of these people, in particular of Harrison Ford's character and the obsessive and haunting love he had for Carolyn that just won't go away, especially when he is reliving their time together throughout the movie. And in this musical obsession also lies the suggestion of murder. I also would say that this is one of those context dependent scores, where the film and music really work better together than either alone would.

 

On the album the music of course is condensed into a listening experience and one could say that it is out of necessity repetitive as the material in the film is also repetitive. Where in the film these individual moments are separated by silences in the scenes without music and spread over 2 hours of film, it is naturally an entirely different thing when all of this music is brought together on a CD. This seemingly ever repeating obsessive melancholy can weigh the 40 minute album down by its near monochromatic approach and I have to admit that I have to be in the right mood to digest the whole album in one go. But on the other hand it really conjures a very unique mood and feel, one that Williams hadn't explored before at that time of his career. The highlights for me are the End Credits, Leon Talks (such wonderful moody piece), The Love Scene, Family Life, Basement Scene (awesome musical misdirection) and the confession scene.

 

I would say it is a 3½ star score on the album, 4 star score in the film.

[indy4 155]

Well said! My frusteration with this may ultimately come down to the problem of film music: that the music is not always written primarily to be listened to. I feel there are ways that JW could have developed the material for a more satisfying/less repetitive album without sacrificing the sense of melancholic obsession and without straying beyond the few themes he wrote, but in the end the film probably prevented him from doing so, for whatever reasons. I do remember the music working very well in the film when I saw it.

[Incanus 5,713]

Well said! My frusteration with this may ultimately come down to the problem of film music: that the music is not always written primarily to be listened to. I feel there are ways that JW could have developed the material for a more satisfying/less repetitive album without sacrificing the sense of melancholic obsession and without straying beyond the few themes he wrote, but in the end the film probably prevented him from doing so, for whatever reasons. I do remember the music working very well in the film when I saw it.

And we have to remember that this music was not written for an album but for a film. In the film the love theme/motif is almost like a signal like e.g. the driving music in Psycho, the shark motif in Jaws or obsessive musical motifs from Vertigo or Signs, repeating and repeating and repeating to create the haunted troubled and unfinished feel as indeed things between Ford's character and the woman were not finished as far as he was concerned. The initial Angela's Ashes style piano motif is almost like a musical question that never seems to receive a proper answer and the love theme is equally unfulfilled and tragic. It all adds to the mystery and to the tragedy of this murder mystery/courtroom drama.

[A24 4,326]

I like this type of repetitious, atmospheric, mood scores. Presumed Innocent is subdued some might say, but in the main titles, there's a very romantic Williams-esque part, where the melody of the strings is almost melodramatic (you know, the part that builds up to the synthy solo female voice melody), certainly compared to today's scoring style. It even wouldn't be misplaced on the Jane Eyre album.

Alex

[indy4 155]

I like this type of repetitious, atmospheric, mood scores. Presumed Innocent is subdued some might say, but in the main titles, there's a very romantic Williams-esque part, where the melody of the strings is almost melodramatic (you know, the part that builds up to the synthy solo female voice melody), certainly compared to today's scoring style. It even wouldn't be misplaced on the Jane Eyre album.

Alex

Yes, the concert piece is as dramatic and emotional as anything JW has written. But the score proper never quite reaches those heights, except maybe in the first minute or so of "Basement Scene." At times it is still pretty dramatic--most of the verbatim statements of the themes, for instance. But some of the best moments of the score are absolutely subdued, like the eerie synth drones that open "Leon Talks."

All that said, it is defintiely one of the least 'romantic' film scores JW has written.

[Incanus 5,713]

I like this type of repetitious, atmospheric, mood scores. Presumed Innocent is subdued some might say, but in the main titles, there's a very romantic Williams-esque part, where the melody of the strings is almost melodramatic (you know, the part that builds up to the synthy solo female voice melody), certainly compared to today's scoring style. It even wouldn't be misplaced on the Jane Eyre album.

Alex

Yes, the concert piece is as dramatic and emotional as anything JW has written. But the score proper never quite reaches those heights, except maybe in the first minute or so of "Basement Scene." At times it is still pretty dramatic--most of the verbatim statements of the themes, for instance. But some of the best moments of the score are absolutely subdued, like the eerie synth drones that open "Leon Talks."

All that said, it is defintiely one of the least 'romantic' film scores JW has written.

I don't think the film could have handled the drive and sheer energy of the main thematic ideas like they are presented in the end credits suite, a culmination of everything that has gone before really. As I said this music gains a lot from its context, the images and music in mutual support of one idea. In the film the culmination of the musical narrative is very subdued, there is no usual Williams build-up to it. The Basement Scene, the confession and the End Credits form a kind of tri-part finale, not musical equivalent of a catharsis but something more ambiguous in nature. You could say that the emotion is all released only in the end credits for the audience's benefit, to provide a resolution to the whole story, where the music finally reaches an ending, dark as it may be.

[indy4 155]

Yeah, I agree. I almost want to view the end credits as an entirely seperate work.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

JW scored the film he was given and scored it well!

[Incanus 5,713]

JW scored the film he was given and scored it well!

Yeap.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What Indy4 does is actually a sorta "dangerous" kind of reviewing. The "Why didnt JW do this? Why didn't JW expand on that" kind of thing.

[TownerFan 4,983]

From a dramatic standpoint, I think it's a truly great piece of work.

JW's music complements perfectly the drama, from the main character's turmoil to the stark depiction of the events. The music does a lot more than just accompanying the scenes with elegant background scoring--it supports the whole emotional/dramatic arc all on its shoulders. Williams does this with an acute sense of drama (pardon the repetition), in a way imho not too dissimilar from what Bernard Herrmann would have done, i.e. crafting the score through repetition of short motivic cells that help to underline greatly the brooding atmosphere of the film (complementing also deftly Gordon Willis' beautiful cinematography). All this builds up to the final key sequences, where Williams makes the daring choice of using a quasi-serial style in the scene of the confession. The end credits suite, as usual in Williams, is a wonderful recapitulation of all the main thematic ideas, presented in a more traditional symphonic, concert-like setting, rounding up the musical discourse in a very satisfying way.

Of course, as a listening experience on CD, this is a score that probably offers less in terms of mere variety if compared to other more "splashy" JW works. But it's nonetheless a very strong example of Williams' talent when writing music for drama.

These kind of movies are always very difficult for the composer--the temptation of going purely atmospheric/ambient is always strong, as it's much easier to wrap up the film with long pads of synths and/or strings and piano. Sometimes in film music being unobtrusive is the equivalent of making boring music (even within the film itself). Williams instead, being the talented composer he is, used all the right elements to build a score that's surely unobtrusive and low-key, but with a strong and satisfying musical sense, i.e. it's good music!

P.S.: I think this film is still the solely case in JW's career of him scoring a (quite explicit) sex scene

[indy4 155]

What Indy4 does is actually a sorta "dangerous" kind of reviewing. The "Why didnt JW do this? Why didn't JW expand on that" kind of thing.

Why is it dangerous? I only meant to suggest that while JW usually writes film scores that both service and film and work as pure music when isolated, this is not as much the case for PI. And honestly I think it works, but only when you cut down some of the redundancy available on the OST.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What you consider redundancy, other might consider necessary.

John Williams takes great care in how he shapes and fashions his albums, surely he saw a need for it to be that precise length.

[indy4 155]

Well, in that case I'm just expressing an opinion

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Could you give an example of what you consider redundant in the score?

[indy4 155]

Could you give an example of what you consider redundant in the score?

Here are just 2 examples. These are what I found just from skimming through the first 6 tracks.

PIANO OSTINATO:

1:14 "Remembering Carolyn"

0:00 "Love Scene"

3:01 "B File"

0:08 "Bedroom Scene"

DIES IRAE OSTINATO:

1:33 "Love Scene'

0:17 "B File"

2:05 "Bedroom Scene

[Incanus 5,713]

Hmmm I am just saying that you are perhaps a wee bit too fascinated by Dies Irae.

I can't really hear it in what you identify as the ostinato figure.

[indy4 155]

In the first time stamp (1:33 of Love Scene) it's the motif played on the double reed (I can't tell if it's an oboe, English horn or bassoon). It's the first four notes of Dies Irae, one per measure (assuming measures of 3/8 or 3/4)

[TownerFan 4,983]

I don't think the repetition of several motivic ideas could be ascribed to laziness or lack of invention on the composer's part. Instead, I think it complements well the idea of obsession, guilt and uncertainty at the core of the story. Also, the film is judiciously spotted, hence the repetitions make much more sense.

[Incanus 5,713]

I don't think the repetition of several motivic ideas could be ascribed to laziness or lack of invention on the composer's part. Instead, I think it complements well the idea of obsession, guilt and uncertainty at the core of the story. Also, the film is judiciously spotted, hence the repetitions make much more sense.

Yes that's absolutely right. On the album the score just might be a different animal altogether. But I would say that more music is better than less. You can always form your own listening experience from the music on the CD if there is too much repetition there.

[indy4 155]

Whoa whoa whoa, hold on...I never said it was due to laziness or lack of invention. I said it was probably due to JW wanting to best serve the film at the expense of the listening experience.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Speaking of Presumed Innocent, I found this on YouTube:

Very nice.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Classy!

[Incanus 5,713]

Very nice performance indeed.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I listened to this CD today.

Tis good!

[KK 3,307]

It's a very good score, and an incredibly effective one at that.

[indy4 155]

You know, if there's one common issue I have with JW's film scores, it's the complaint I levied at Presumed Innocent. I just listened to Angela's Ashes and it also suffers a bit from overusing themes with little variation (although not as bad as Presumed Innocent). Rosewood also has a bit of this, although to an even lesser extent (probably because there's a lot more recurring thematic ideas, so each one gets less time). And parts of Hook.

[crocodile 7,983]

I tried to give it a listen last night. And failed after 1 track.

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

Boo Karol! Boo! For shame! For shame!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Bah! Go back to your Harry Potter, Jurassic Park and Star Wars, Polish boy!

[crocodile 7,983]

Maybe it was just too late.

Or maybe water was just cold.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Water was cold? What? What?

[Incanus 5,713]

The mystery deepens I see.

Presumed Innocent

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

NP: Karol's Confession

[crocodile 7,983]

The mystery deepens I see.

Presumed Innocent

"Shrinks" would be a better word here.

Karol

[filmmusic 1,823]

Just wacthed the film again yesterday after some years.

Very good film and of course the score is great too.

I just wish it wasn't so repetitive of the main theme.

 

Does anyone know if the ost is complete? It sounded so to me.

[Incanus 5,713]

34 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

Just wacthed the film again yesterday after some years.

Very good film and of course the score is great too.

I just wish it wasn't so repetitive of the main theme.

 

Does anyone know if the ost is complete? It sounded so to me.

The OST is nearly complete. If I remember correctly there isn't anything else missing except for a short version of the main theme for the opening credits and one extra rendition of the family theme when Rusty's son goes to the summer camp (if I remember correctly).

 

And the repetition of the main theme is sort of the whole point of the score, the obsessive desperate love Rusty has for Carolyn which haunts the entire film, repeating over and over again as the main character relives his relationship with the woman at different points. As Robert Townson well puts it in the liner notes, the love theme is more of a love motif, repeating without ever truly finding true resolution. And for a 2 hour film under 50 minutes of music even with repetitions isn't very much and it is well spotted.

[A24 4,326]

This gotta be Williams' most subdued score, right? It's very likely most people wouldn't even identify it as Williams, unlike with Potter, Star Wars, Jaws or Indiana Jones.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's hip, ready and willin'.

[Incanus 5,713]

1 hour ago, Alexcremers said:

This gotta be Williams' most subdued score, right? It's very likely most people wouldn't even identify it as Williams, unlike with Potter, Star Wars, Jaws or Indiana Jones.

It is surely among his most subdued. I would say Accidental Tourist and Stanley & Iris are equally strong contenders for that spot although both are quite different in hue. Also both scores general public wouldn't associate with Williams of the mega franchise fame.

[A24 4,326]

Equally subdued? I doubt that, Incanus. Stanley & Iris sometimes gets brashly romantic, while emotionally, Presumed Innocent stays reasonably sober for its entire length (with many moments of reflective sombreness). But I admit, The Accidental Tourist is a better candidate.

[Incanus 5,713]

49 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

Equally subdued? I doubt that, Incanus. Stanley & Iris sometimes gets brashly romantic, while emotionally, Presumed Innocent stays reasonably sober for its entire length (with many moments of reflective sombreness). But I admit, The Accidental Tourist is a better candidate.

Stanley & Iris may be sunnier in tone but that doesn't make it brashly romantic to my mind. It is very chamber-sized and holds back for most of its running time without huge bursts of emotion. It is gentle and very melodic. All three scores seem to find their grandest moments during the end credits whether in sheer dramatic expression or energy. Subdued doesn't necessary have to mean somber. What I would say enhances the subdued feel for The Accidental Tourist and Presumed Innocent is their near mono-thematic repetition of the material, intentional as it may be. Stanley & Iris is more varied in its colour and thematic ideas but still muted compared to Williams' usually grander projects which is why I consider it subdued. I would add Sleepers to the list but it isn't as subdued or quiet all through its running time although its pervasive dark mood is very uniform.

[Arpy 4,145]

Is this score for sale anywhere? Can't trust amazon anymore

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Taxation is slavery!

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

On 6/1/2018 at 10:27 AM, Arpy said:

Is this score for sale anywhere? Can't trust amazon anymore

 

Yes, on eBay.

[A. A. Ron 1,738]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Yes, on eBay.

 

Why'd you respond more than a year later?

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

That's when I saw it. Isn't that obvious?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Why can't he trust Amazon?

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

They don't deliver to Australia anymore.