Abel Korzeniowski's Romeo and Juliet (Replaced James Horner) - Sony Classic OST

[filmmusic 1,823]

My main point is, W.E. and Romeo and Juliet, being two vastly different films/concepts in setting, plot, and themes have received two barely distinguishable scores.

I think W.E. and Romeo & Juliet have exactly the same theme: Forbidden love

[KK 3,307]

Haha well played

Too bad that doesn't cut it for me

[filmmusic 1,823]

I think it's early now to speak of wanting something new from this composer.

I agree though, that this style of music (although it's greatly appealing to me), is extremely limited musically: mostly totally diatonic and minimalistic.

[crocodile 7,984]

This is a staple and a fingerprint of Polish romanticism in film music, lush, string-heavy and quite simple and direct in construct. Just like Kilar or Kaczmarek, for example.

I've not heard the album yet. We might see if it appeals to me. W.E. wasn't exactly my thing (and it was temp tracked with A Single Man, according to composer). Korzeniowski's film music idol is Desplat and he seems to be following the same pattern. Hopefully, he gets to branch out into other directions - after all his Metropolis, Copernicus' Star and Battle for Terra show a slightly richer pallette.

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

This is a staple and a fingerprint of Polish romanticism in film music, lush, string-heavy and quite simple and direct in construct. Just like Kilar or Kaczmarek, for example.

I've not heard the album yet. We might see if it appeals to me. W.E. wasn't exactly my thing (and it was temp tracked with A Single Man, according to composer). Korzeniowski's film music idol is Desplat and he seems to be following the same pattern. Hopefully, he gets to branch out into other directions - after all his Metropolis, Copernicus' Star and Battle for Terra show a slightly richer pallette.

Karol

Yes the samples sounded quite promising and I agree on the score's and composer's stylistic traits. It did feel a bit W.E. to me as well, of which I am not a huge fan of but I hope Abel gets as many and varied chances as possible so he can show us his multifaceted talents.

P.S. Copernicus' Star is not without it's temp track moments (PotC and A Beautiful Mind anyone?), but overall feeling is that it is a spirited and quite a stellar score (pun intended).

[crocodile 7,984]

Copernicus' Star wasn't temp-tracked with those, as far as I'm aware, but Abel is a big fan of A Beautiful Mind. Perhaps, some unintentional/intentional influences bled into his work.

Karol

[filmmusic 1,823]

This is a staple and a fingerprint of Polish romanticism in film music, lush, string-heavy and quite simple and direct in construct. Just like Kilar or Kaczmarek, for example.

Well, I would say about Kilar, from the things I've heard that it's more diverse harmonically..

[KK 3,307]

I think Karol actually sums up Polish romanticism quite well. Minimalism and the avant-garde are defining aspects of contemporary Polish concert music.

[filmmusic 1,823]

But there are many levels of minimalism.

For example, Michael Nyman too is a minimalist, but again more diverse...

[crocodile 7,984]

As far as I know, in regards to W.E., Abel wanted to create something more complex and layered, but Madonna wouldn't let him. And was frustrated by that at first, but then saw that maybe that's a legitimate way to tackle this job as well.

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

As far as I know, in regards to W.E., Abel wanted to create something more complex and layered, but Madonna wouldn't let him. And was frustrated by that at first, but then saw that maybe that's a legitimate way to tackle this job as well.

Karol

Ah the diplomacy that is the film composer's everyday life. To try to navigate the film making process and collaboration and still create something that is somehow meaningful to yourself as an artist.

[crocodile 7,984]

That's what I thought.

I mean, I'm sure he's capable of some more advanced techniques. He's familiar with them - after all Penderecki was his mentor.

Karol

[KK 3,307]

Oh yes. I'm very aware of how Madonna showed him the beauty of simplicity. But after the immense appeal of the W.E. sound, that seems to be what many want from Korzeniowski. Simple music, but elegantly beautiful.

I want to hear more bold material from him a la Copernicus' Star though.

[crocodile 7,984]

Well, as I said, he wants to score an action picture.

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

Action movie would be great! Anything that gives opporturnities to explore new musical expression. Which is by the way becoming rather difficult in the "play-it-safe-with-tested-formula" environment of the more and more market force driven film industry. It becomes an art in itself to try to convince collaborators to let you try the road less traveled.

Copernicus' Star wasn't temp-tracked with those, as far as I'm aware, but Abel is a big fan of A Beautiful Mind. Perhaps, some unintentional/intentional influences bled into his work.

Karol

Interesting. The PotC sounds like a quite a clear influence on some tracks and A Beautiful Mind immediately leapt to my mind when I first heard the music., be it composer's conscious or unconscious intent.

But all this talk about it reminds me that I should take another listen to this score.

[crocodile 7,984]

Some of his action music in Battle for Terra is actually quite good.

Karol

[chuck 154]

Oscar contender mayhaps?

[filmmusic 1,823]

That's what I thought.

I mean, I'm sure he's capable of some more advanced techniques. He's familiar with them - after all Penderecki was his mentor.

Karol

I don't think anyone argued here that he can't write.

On the contrary!

Whoever composer knows music, shows even in the simplest pieces!

Oscar contender mayhaps?

well, i would hope so, but since A Single Man and W.E. weren't either, i don't see why they would make an exception to this.

the Oscar contenders will be (again) scores for films that have important other nominations, in spite of whether the score is bad or good.

[chuck 154]

There's far stranger things that have happened.

[crocodile 7,984]

Yeah, like Gustavo winning two years in a row!

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

Yeah, like Gustavo winning two years in a row!

Karol

Oh the bitter years! It all comes flooding back to me! The horror! The horror!

[TownerFan 4,983]

The point is that many directors are simply in love with Glass-like minimalism, which has become a true staple in dramatic movies scoring to the point of now being a cliché.

I see why many people like it in movies, though: the repetitive patterns, the usual stripped-down "piano-cum-strings" orchestration, the small melodic nuggets, the emotional directness of diatonic chords etc. can really serve the drama and the actions in a very unobtrusive way while giving a sense of elegance and class.

The point is: after the man himself (Glass) brought this technique to its likely maximum impact in film music on a score like The Hours (imho one of the most seminal scores of the last 15 years), I wonder how many variations and deviations can be done within this quite already constricted musical language. It would be refreshing if some director would ask the composer to approach a minimalist-influenced style while looking at the whole spectrum of it, i.e. not just the usual Glass/Nyman template. Take a look for example at how Morricone used minimalist technique many times, but he never sounded like Glass or Reich. Even John Williams approached minimalism gestures in some creative way (A.I., Minority Report, portions of Memoirs of a Geisha).

[chuck 154]

[crocodile 7,984]

The point is that many directors are simply in love with Glass-like minimalism, which has become a true staple in dramatic movies scoring to the point of now being a cliché.

I see why many people like it in movies, though: the repetitive patterns, the usual stripped-down "piano-cum-strings" orchestration, the small melodic nuggets, the emotional directness of diatonic chords etc. can really serve the drama and the actions in a very unobtrusive way while giving a sense of elegance and class.

The point is: after the man himself (Glass) brought this technique to its likely maximum impact in film music on a score like The Hours (imho one of the most seminal scores of the last 15 years), I wonder how many variations and deviations can be done within this quite already constricted musical language. It would be refreshing if some director would ask the composer to approach a minimalist-influenced style while looking at the whole spectrum of it, i.e. not just the usual Glass/Nyman template. Take a look for example at how Morricone used minimalist technique many times, but he never sounded like Glass or Reich. Even John Williams approached minimalism gestures in some creative way (A.I., Minority Report, portions of Memoirs of a Geisha).

Don't forget about Elfman who has been flirting with minimalism as well. And even though works like Standard Operating Procedure draw a lot of inspiration from Glass (quite blatantly sometimes) Elfman's voice is also heard - it's like a mash-up of two composers. It's a brilliant score, by the way (for me his top 5 material).

Anyway, I'm listening to Korzeniowski's latest and, while I can see what KK is talking about, it's actually better than W.E. This take on minimalism-like ideas works well with this period setting. It's like a modern take on that music, not completely different in its approach to the great Nino Rota's score.

Karol

[KK 3,307]

Really? I can't imagine some of this music working in a period piece. But then again, that's not what this film is aiming to be.

I think I liked W.E. more.

[crocodile 7,984]

Just finished listening. In a nutshell - it's exactly what Nino Rota did back in the 60's, but updated for modern audiences. While certain lack of harmonic depth might be a detriment to some, I think that this kind of simplicity would work with this type of film, obviously made for much younger audience. It tries to merge both the old-fashioned melodrama romance and, at the same time, satisfy modern tastes. Let's face it - this is as far as you can take romantic music these days. And, taking that into consideration, it's very successful. I really like it - might be my favourite work from Abel done for a non-Polish film project.

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

I have to agree with your analysis Karol. It is also something I was rather expecting stylistically. Abel has the right kind of sweep going on in the music.

As we have seen Shakespeare can be approached in music in myriad ways. We have something as eclectic as Goldenthal's Titus Andronicus, cultural influences combining Merchant of Venice by Jocelyn Pook and sheer orchestral drama of Walton and Doyle for Henry V and everything in between.

And here is On the Score interview with Abel Korzeniowski, where he discusses among other things Romeo and Juliet.

[chuck 154]

Minimalism is the future!!!

[crocodile 7,984]

Listening to the interview. Interesting that Schweiger's observations seem in tune with what I said in the above posts.

Karol

[Jay 37,287]

What do those have to do with Romeo and Juliet?

Nevermind, you edited your post!

[crocodile 7,984]

Just posted in the wrong thread, Jason.

Karol

[Romão 2,274]

This sort of music simply does not impress me one bit. I've heard this countless times before.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I think this one might be coming out under LLL. They sent out an email today about the digital release, and over in the score's thread at FSM he said:

A CD might be coming out stateside.

MV

He also responded to a member's question:

A CD might be coming out stateside.

MV

Any different to the one available in UK and that Amazon thinks was supposed to be available stateside yesterday?

Don't know yet

MV

Perhaps they're trying to add some bonus tracks to it?

[gkgyver 1,645]

The score is very nice indeed. Definitely miles better than the usual romantic piano affairs.

But like Romao, I have the feeling I've heard it before.

[KK 3,307]

That's because you have, if you heard W.E. that is.

[crocodile 7,984]

I do admit there's quite a lot of The Hours in those two scores, probably one of the most defining drama scores of the past 10 years.

Karol

[Koray Savas 2,251]

American Beauty

[crocodile 7,984]

Those two, actually.

But Newman's score is older than 10 years as well.

Karol

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

If we're including other pre-2000 scores I'd throw in Ryuichi Sakamoto's Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence and Michael Danna's The Ice Storm. Both very influential.

[crocodile 7,984]

Never heard those. Got to catch up - I like both composers.

Karol

[MikeH 768]

Abel just did a live Q and A on his facebook page.  I haven't had time to listen to it so I'm cross-posting this from FSM:

 

from user Mike Skerritt

 

Korzeniowski is doing a Facebook Live Q&A as we speak and someone asked him whether scoring R&J was an "intense" experience. He gave a suprisingly candid answer and offered some context that I'd never heard before. Apologies if this was mentioned previously but I didn't see it when scrolling through the thread.

In any case, Horner's original score was rejected and then Korzeniowski was brought in to replace it. This much is clear. But Korzeniowski explained that after he began writing the producers told him that Horner was still at work writing revisions to his own score. They would both be allowed to finish then two sets of screenings would be held, one with Horner's score and one with Korzeniowski's score, and the screening results would essentially decide which one would go with the final picture. Korzeniowski was understandably and justifiably proud of his work on the film but he said he never would have agreed to do it if he'd known that it was more than a basic replacement gig. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/abelkorzeniowski/

[publicist 4,643]

6 hours ago, MikeH said:

But Korzeniowski explained that after he began writing the producers told him that Horner was still at work writing revisions to his own score. They would both be allowed to finish then two sets of screenings would be held, one with Horner's score and one with Korzeniowski's score, and the screening results would essentially decide which one would go with the final picture.

 

I just can picture Horner's reaction to this scenario...which probably no one dared to forward to him. The world-famous 'Titanic' composer having to audition his work a second time with his replacement waiting in the wings, for a small low-budget movie, no less. The result speaks for itself.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Any chance of us ever getting Horner's score?

 

This sort of behaviour is atrocious though. Total lack of respect to both composers, especially Horner.

[Incanus 5,713]

Sounds cold calculating studio goon machinations with dollar signs glowing in their eyes, pitting one composer against another in a musical gladiatorial fight to rejection!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Hail Preaductar! We who are about to score salute you!

[crocodile 7,984]

I like Korzeniowski's score but this situation is just silly. It's just hard for me to believe that someone and seasoned as Horner would struggle to provide appropriate score.

 

But hey...test screenings... Feels like almost 10 years after Troy he found himself in a situation where now he's been mistreated and probably for the same reasons.

 

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

I still haven't gotten my copy. The guy stopped answering me!

 

But in all fairness, i probably know it rather well anyway.