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BloodBoal

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Yeah, I prefer the entire film version of the pre-Erebor music. The clarinet on the title is gorgeous, and a nice "unexpected" modulation to D major ( I think? ) The music for Old Bilbo and the map is great as well. I love how it quotes a few bars of the music from Return of the King scoring the similar map shot from Gondor back to the Shire.

I'm not sure I like the film version better, also because I'm not sure if the album version wasn'twritten for another version (also in content, not only time). I do find the film ending of the prologue slightly better though.

PS: it's E major ;)

PPS: Boal, I hope you'll do A Good Omen sometime. I tried it and it matched greatly, but just until Gwaihir places Thorin on the Carrock, then it goes out of sync.

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Sweet, can't wait to watch your new video, they are all fascinating to see. Stupid work, might not be able to watch until I get home tonight.

I think a bunch of the music in "Axe Or Sword" is for deleted footage that will hopefully be restored in the EE, so I wouldn't expect you to find footage in the TE for all of the music.

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It's not just that part, 0:29-0:55 as well as 3:52-4:34 aren't in the film. And there's no guarantee that the other parts of the track that are in the film are precisely where they were intended to me.

I'll have to respond after I've seen your video

BTW It's a shame Shore didn't include the music for the bits with the contract, Thorin saying he's not responsible for Bilbo's fate, and Bilbo fainting on the SE version of the OST.

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OK I had time to watch the whole video!

I think everything from 0:00-3:56 is spot on, and Shore's original intentions, as far as I can tell. It all works perfectly as presented here, at least.

3:56-4:37 - I dunno, as you say, this is overscored - the music is two intense for Bilbo looking at the contract in the hallway. I think this music was meant for deleted footage and not the footage you synced it to.

4:37-end is ABSOLUTELY spot on. I LOVE that Shore intended to introduce the Baggins/Took theme on the shot of the portrait of Bullroarer Took. SO ANNOYING that PJ replaced all this stuff. Bah!

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A lot of times you simply can never tell where there is a microedit on an OST CD, especially with today's modern digital recording and editing techniques. Generally we find out about them when comparing the OST track to the film itself, or to other places where the same music turns up. For example compare the end of Brass Buttons to the same music in the film's end credits. Or My Dear Frodo original opening to the Howard Shore music featurette. Etc.

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Usually you can spot the edit points once you hear the full recording, things you have heard, cannot be unheard, and all that.

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It's not a question of time, just technology. Analog editing techniques are just more noticeable that expertly made digital ones, not to mention with analog recordings you can hear the background noise change from take to take.

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Oh, I think a lot of care went into the sequencing of The Hobbit OST CDs. I think we got exactly what Shore wanted us to hear, barring anything he recorded for the films after the CDs had to be locked.



And yes, Shore's original score for the Bullroarer Took is spot on, and just perfect scoring. It's really too bad PJ thought it needed to be changed.

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Depends on how quickly they had to make edits. If PJ wanted a music change the day before the audio had to be locked they might have had to of rushed it all.

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usually cuts in the film, are worse than edits on album, seeing how the SFX usually cover them up, they don't really bother, for example Roast Mutton.

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Three different versions are edited together, from the SE version of Roast Mutton, the OST version, and a third unreleased version.

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Once again Shore originally scored the scene perfectly. I agree the earlier shots play fine with no music, but using the Baggins/Took theme when he looks at the contract is just bloody perfect!

BTW, did you ever notice that the end of the cue, the fast part, in the film is a different mix, with more instruments heard? I'm almost wondering if the additional instrumentation is by Plan 9 and not Shore....

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BTW, did you ever notice that the end of the cue, the fast part, in the film is a different mix, with more instruments heard? I'm almost wondering if the additional instrumentation is by Plan 9 and not Shore....

- The second part of the film version of The Adventure Begins has just a different mix, if I'm not mistaken. It's not a different recording.

Right, so you've noticed it - what is your commentary on it? Do you like the alternate mix?

May I request Dol Guldur or any Radagast material next (or soon)?

BloodBoal is obviously going in chronological order through the soundtrack CD / film, why bother trying to rush him into going out of order when he's doing a great job at what he's doing in his preferred order in his own pace?

I almost think The Adventure Begins is two different cues for the same scene...

What do you mean?

Obviously, the album track is his original plan for the scene, and PJ decided the scene worked better with mostly silence and then a shorter, different lead-up to the fast part, so he had Shore write/record a 34 second insert.

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I was actually contemplating moving BB's videos into their own thread so they get better recognition!

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What do you mean?

Obviously, the album track is his original plan for the scene, and PJ decided the scene worked better with mostly silence and then a shorter, different lead-up to the fast part, so he had Shore write/record a 34 second insert.

Well, I thought it might be a situation somewhat similar to One Barrel Chase, with two different versions are in one track.

that big crescendo in the middle of the track would fade out, silence, then the upbeat shire theme would play, similar to the film.

Beside's the film version is tracked from Where's Bilbo....

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Beside's the film version is tracked from Where's Bilbo....

Aha! I hadn't discovered that yet. Interesting!

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Beside's the film version is tracked from Where's Bilbo....

Aha! I hadn't discovered that yet. Interesting!

Yeah, and the first part of Where's Bilbo that segues (Badly) into that? that is tracked from the film version of A Good Omen.

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Love all the videos BloodBoal! It's great to hear how the original intentions might have turned out. Can't wait till you get to the really good stuff!

Time to chose between Axe Or Sword!

The first minute of that track was mostly unused in the film (apart from the first few seconds). I tried to make the music start as Thorin says "Gandalf" (the same way it starts in the film), and I think for the most part, it all syncs pretty well (maybe it's supposed to start a few seconds later or earlier, but I believe it's more or less supposed to play like it does in the video).
Then, from 1:00 to 3:56, all of it was used in the film. Nothing to say about it.
The part from 3:56 to 4:36 is where it gets a bit tricky. This part was unused in the film, although the first 10 seconds or so were used, up to the point where Torin says to Balin "Give him the contract", so that's what I used as a sync point. The thing is, all the music for Bilbo receiving the contract sounds a bit "overscored" for such a little moment, so that's kind of odd, but the music that follows (underscoring Thorin and Gandalf's little chat) works well, so I guess that's how it was supposed to work.
Finally, the last 90 seconds were completely unused in the film, so I decided to use the shot showing the portrait of Bandobras Took as a sync point (with Bilbo's theme starting to play at that very moment). Once again, maybe it was supposed to start a few seconds earlier or later in that scene, but I think for the most part, that was what this music was meant to underscore (and the beginning is clearly around the moment Bilbo says: "I am a Baggins of Bag-End").

Agreed on all your points. The first minute was so much better than the tracked FotR music that was used in film. The middle portion (those 10 seconds) did seem overscored, so I'm not sure that's the footage it was intended for, unless Shore didn't approach the scene comedically as it was intended in the final version. And Bilbo's theme in the end was perfectly placed! Pity it had to be replaced with yet another typical statement of the Shire theme....

Since Blunt The Knives and Misty Mountains were used entirely in the final film, we go directly to The Adventure Begins!

For this one, I thought no editing would be required, but actually, I had to cut a few seconds here and there. Overall, though, the music pretty much fits the scene that is in the final film.

I have to say, it's one of the few decisions made by PJ regarding the score I agree with. The scene (the first minute, I mean) works much better without music (perhaps he should have kept the music from 1'15 onwards, though)

P.S.: Don't worry, it's not a problem with your speakers. The music starts at 0'16. ;)

Agreed. Silence works better in the first minute. It helps the pacing of the scene and adds more gravity to it. However, as Jason said, I think the statement of Bilbo's theme when he sees the contract was well conceived.

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The film mix makes the cue sound even more Hugo-like and outlandish. I mean, as music, I like it, but as Middle-Earth music, I'm not sure it works. The album version is better in that regard.

Yea, I think I agree with you. The album version has the perfect balance.

And Bilbo's theme in the end was perfectly placed! Pity it had to be replaced with yet another typical statement of the Shire theme....

[...]

However, as Jason said, I think the statement of Bilbo's theme when he sees the contract was well conceived.

Bilbo's themes are ones I honestly didn't pay much attention to for a long time, but recently I have been listening to all tracks that contain them a lot more and I have come to really love Bilbo's Adventure Theme and especially the Baggins/Took theme, I consider them among the very best themes of recent years. Shore really nailed both the book version of Bilbo as well as Martin Freeman's interpretation of Bilbo with those themes. Truly remarkable work.

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Both themes are fantastic, conveying the perfect sense of innocence and adventure. My favourite used to be Bilbo's Adventure (especially that awesome variation in "Erebor"), but lately I've really fallen in love with Bilbo's main theme and how it perfectly suits the character.

Hopefully we'll get to hear more of the theme in the next film.

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I think you could argue that either Bilbo's Adventure Theme or the Baggins/Took theme is his "main theme".....

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I think you could argue that either Bilbo's Adventure Theme or the Baggins/Took theme is his "main theme".....

The Baggins/Took theme is what I consider his main theme.

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Interesting video, BloodBoal. Honestly - I'm not entirely convinced :)

First of all, everything in your video from about 0:55-end is spot on! I think Shore wrote that statement of Bilbo's Fussy Theme for the handkerchief moment, and of course the transition to the Misty Mountains theme is as shown.

But for the slow Baggins/Took Theme part that you synced up with the Betting scene.... I dunno. this would imply that Shore didn't score at all the moments where Bilbo first approaches the company and says he signed the contract, etc.... I doubt Shore would have only had the music come in on that shot of Thorin.

Also, the Baggins/Took statement seems to me to fit better those Bilbo arriving scenes. I think it's likely that the handkerchief scene wasn't in the cut of the film that this version of The World Is Ahead was scored to, and when it was added in later PJ mucked with all the music.

Is there any chance you could try lining up the start of the track with earlier in the scene, and edit out the betting part, and see how that works?

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What the fuck are you talking about?

there is a section in the film that is microedited out of the album (or is a revised insert), its not in your video, if you would have listened to my edit of the score, you would know this.

Here is a Video of what I am talking about (ignore the pitch change) at 1:13: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LgRM7WEpJ0

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OK I watched the video again.... and this rings true:

The only part I prefer in the film version is when he's first on the horse and that comical look he does, not sure the relaxed whistle quite suits that moment.

See, the more I watch BB's video, the less I am convinced that Shore intended the relaxed whistle statement of the Baggins/Took theme to be mostly over the betting scene. The way the scene is structured, I'm sure it was scored kind of like it is in the final film - for comedic effect, with a hit for the reveal of Bilbo on a pony, and other hits for the bag hitting Gandalf's hand, etc - as it does in the final film version.

I am more convinced than ever that the relaxed whistle music was for Bilbo approaching the company and their initial conversation - maybe a longer conversation than is shown in the final film, even. I think the Betting scene either wasn't in the film when Shore recorded the version of the cue on the OST, OR, it was, but he microedited out the original Betting Scene music for the OST track because he liked the flow better going from the Baggins/Took Theme music right to the Bilbo's Fussy Theme moment.

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