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Star Wars Prequel Music General Discussion


JohnnyD

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8 minutes ago, Skelly said:

My favorite is "The Arrival Of Tatooine". It makes it seem as if the planet of Tatooine suddenly barged into the plot unannounced.

 

ROTFLMAO

 

Williams is rather sloppy with his cue names! (but then again, they are never meant to be seen by the public, only for working reference)

 

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What's interesting is the sixth reel. Look how much was written for that, but not recorded! UE's claim for "every note written" will never, ever be true (unless LucasFilm want to record those missing passages anew).

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2 hours ago, Gistech said:

What's interesting is the sixth reel. Look how much was written for that, but not recorded! UE's claim for "every note written" will never, ever be true (unless LucasFilm want to record those missing passages anew).

I see the six reel well represented there. It even has track times and datestamps for recording. why do you say music was not recorded?

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1 minute ago, Luke Skywalker said:

I see the six reel well represented there. It even has track times and datestamps for recording. why do you say music was not recorded?

 

Read the sheet music itself to see what I mean: there's a lot written in there that was not recorded at all. Look at the Great Duel for example: it's supposed to be one long cue, but the omission of material between bars 54 and 75 means that it was recorded in two parts. Blows Up And The Death Of Darth Maul has a whole ending that wasn't recorded, which necessitated the creation of the cue "The End of Darth Maul". Up The Wire also has an unrecorded ending.

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14 hours ago, Gistech said:

 

Read the sheet music itself to see what I mean: there's a lot written in there that was not recorded at all. Look at the Great Duel for example: it's supposed to be one long cue, but the omission of material between bars 54 and 75 means that it was recorded in two parts. Blows Up And The Death Of Darth Maul has a whole ending that wasn't recorded, which necessitated the creation of the cue "The End of Darth Maul". Up The Wire also has an unrecorded ending.

Where exactly do you get the sheet music?

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4 minutes ago, Manikin Skywalker said:

Where exactly do you get the sheet music?

 

On 12/2/2016 at 5:39 PM, Gistech said:

Looks like the sheet music for TPM has leaked to FFShrine.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I was just watching a bit of this video (I'm sure the whole thing is super interesting - this kind of "one scene in depth" documentary is an awesome idea! - but I didn't have time):

 

 

I found the sound mix segment near the end (starts around 1 hour, 12 minutes) extremely interesting. We see Ken Wannberg, the music editor, Ramiro Belgardt, presumably Wannberg's assistant for that film, Ben Burtt (IIRC), and George Lucas. 

 

I've always kind of wondered what the music editor actually does. While what's shown in this video may not be his main role (that has more to do with creating the temp track and matching the music to picture?), it is still awesome to get to see.

 

In short, those guys are in the editing room, and they play a bit of the Anakin vs. Obi-Wan duel. 

 

GL asks Wannberg what he thinks and he says he's not happy. 

 

Belgardt gives a little knowing smile toward Lucas, and then "Kenny" explains that the music is vital to connect the scene transitions, and that it's being buried.

 

They tone down the sound effects, and Kenny is happy with the result. 

 

It's really cool to get a glimpse at how the music editor acts as an advocate for the score (I'm not sure if this is always the case, of course). Clearly, us fans are not the only ones who complain about music being buried in the mix!

 

Burtt is also candid about the constant battle between the music and the effects.

 

I wonder how much involvement Williams himself has in preparing the final mix. After all, we did get pictures from JKMS of JW's parking space at Fox Studios for both TFA and BFG, even though both scores were recorded and mixed at Sony, according to the booklets. And I believe I read that J.J. and co. worked on the sound mix at Fox for TFA. 

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@Will, he is talking about the audio dub, not the score.  It is where you mix all sound elements such as score, sound fx, foley, dialog, etc.  What Ken is saying is exactly what most music editors will say, the score is lost to the sound fx.  But ultimately, every sound element needs to blend and make all creative partners happy.  That is what is happening when he is talking there.  Generally, for composers, the sound dub is not a great experience but it is something you need someone who cares about music to be a part of.  It is a bit of a debate between all creative partners but with best intentions. 

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1 hour ago, karelm said:

@Will, he is talking about the audio dub, not the score.  

 

I actually realized that. But sorry if I was unclear. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have heard four versions of Across the Stars. I understand that Peter Gelb at Sony ordered some changes for the album, but that general bit of info is all I know.

 

Across the Stars - 6:31

Across the Stars (Updated Gelb Version) - 5:35

Across the Stars (Gelb, Rejected) - 4:46 (wow that mocked-up ending is terrific!!)

Across the Stars (Gelb 2, Rejected) - 6:03

 

I also have this cue sheet excerpt. Only the top two have recording dates listed on another part of the sheet. From top, the orchestrators are HH (who the heck is that?), CP, HH, and JW. 

 

What is the relationship between all these versions -- i.e. which were written first and such? Which ones were written for the film and which for the album? What's the relationship to what's on the OST in the concert version and "Confrontation and Finale" track? 

Screen Shot 2017-01-11 at 9.12.26 PM.png

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54 minutes ago, Will said:

What is the relationship between all these versions -- i.e. which were written first and such? Which ones were written for the film and which for the album? What's the relationship to what's on the OST in the concert version and "Confrontation and Finale" track? 

 

 

How have you heard four different versions? Are there mockups?

 

Presumably the OST concert suite is the "Updated Gelb Version", which runs 5:33 on the OST.

 

The version in the end credits only runs about 5:10, but it possibly had the first minute removed so it might be 6:10 in complete form. No idea which of the three was on the final CD though, presumably not the Gelb version.

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End Credits is, well, the End Credits.  Used in its proper place on the OST in track 13, but rejected and replaced in the final film by Across The Stars


Then came the CD Version which seemingly wasn't recorded

 

Then came the Gelb Version which he still didn't seem to like

 

So finally came the Updated Gelb which is more or less the final Across The Stars we know but different in a few parts - probably podium changes

 

More info here

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20291-complete-cue-list-attack-of-the-clones/&do=findComment&comment=725160

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I find it very strange, as well. Presumably Gelb and Williams have some kind of working relationship because it seems weird to have a music executive dictating how his concert suites should sound.

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My guess is that Duel Of The Fates was used extensively in TPM's marketing campaign, got its own single, a music video and helped make the OST a very strong seller for Sony Classical. Moreso than the average soundtrack.

 

So when the sequel score was produced Sony's management hoped to recreate that success and began meddling with the album more that is customary for a soundtrack release like that.

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9 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

How have you heard four different versions? Are there mockups?

 

The first one and last two that I've heard are combinations of mock-ups and actual orchestral recordings. Not sure about the second one. Might be just the OST suite. 

 

My favorite is the "Gelb 1, Rejected" (probably the "CD Version"?). 

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We don't have the sheet music for CD Version, so its impossible for us to know exactly what all of that was like (however, large portions of it were re-used in Gelb Version)

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Holy crap, I'm past 2,000 posts! My posting rate must have really picked up.

 

Took me like a year to reach 1,000 and a few months for the next 1,000!

 

Hmm... Is that good or bad? :P

 

 

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You can now change the text under your screen name to same something other than "Frequent Poster" if you want

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Just now, Jay said:

You can now change the text under your screen name to same something other than "Frequent Poster" if you want

 

Yeah, I did for a little but couldn't really think of anything good. I'll try again later today, maybe.

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11 minutes ago, Will said:

Holy crap, I'm past 2,000 posts! My posting rate must have really picked up.

 

Took me like a year to reach 1,000 and a few months for the next 1,000!

 

Hmm... Is that good or bad? :P

 

 

 

It's good....

 

It's very very good!

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19 minutes ago, Will said:

Holy crap, I'm past 2,000 posts! My posting rate must have really picked up.

 

Took me like a year to reach 1,000 and a few months for the next 1,000!

 

Hmm... Is that good or bad? :P

 

 

 

I've been here for 17 years and I don't even have 2000 posts yet.  And I'm the best poster on this board!

 

Take whatever guidance you want from that statement.

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