Is the art of traditional film scoring being lost

[tedfud 38]

Fascinating post over on VI Control.....http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34461&highlight=.

Hans himself post about halfway down ( rctec) . It's interesting to see what people think of the current trend in film scores and a modern film composers role.

T

[Henry B 50]

Nice post from dannthr as far as film music goes, but it's too bad he dismisses atonality as "insanity," as if fifty years of musical radicalism from Scriabin to Boulez was just the artistic equivalent of scratching an itch. Contemporary acoustic and harmonic/contrapuntal techniques are horribly underrepresented in film music. Jerry Goldsmith and Alex North were doing it fifty years ago; what happened? But we do have the occasional score from Corigliano, Greenwood, etc., at least.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

The DAW Generation of composers can be surprisingly reactionary and ignorant towards modernist music. I guess because it's fundamentally at odds with the now dominant pop/minimalist aesthetic, which strives towards simplicity and accessibility.

[tedfud 38]

The DAW Generation of composers can be surprisingly reactionary and ignorant towards modernist music. I guess because it's fundamentally at odds with the now dominant pop/minimalist aesthetic, which strives towards simplicity and accessibility.

what do you mean by modernist ? Philip glass, Steve Reich ?...in which case id disagree . "american beauty" springs to mind. But if you mean atonal and serialism then id agree....but with the caveat that for a lot of people that music is very hard to listen too. It takes a masters touch ( the composers already mentioned ) to use those techniques in story telling ( basic film music requirements ) without it sounding like cliched horror movie music .

T

sorry just re-read your post.....I see you single out minimalism ....

[filmmusic 1,823]

It's interesting (and unfortunate) that when there is a talk abot composing music in the computer, all stand on the instrumentation part and the conveniences the computer offers in that field!

But noone stands on the actual composing part: melody, harmony, counterpoint, development, variations etc. etc.

[Bespin 8,475]

I would remove the word "scoring" from the sentence.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

The art? I don't think so. But the craft is certainly changing.

[Hlao-roo 389]

I would guess that art and craft are interrelated, though, and that if one is changing, the other is likely to be affected.

[Trent B 337]

If you mean by actual themes, then for the most part yes...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

If you mean by actual themes, then for the most part yes...

More than just themes.

[Hlao-roo 389]

If you mean by actual themes, then for the most part yes...

More than just themes.

Extensions, too.

[filmmusic 1,823]

A comment from Bruce Broughton on this video that seems to fit in this thread:

Perhaps I'm the last guy on the planet to see this, but listening to it now makes 1971 seem in the future compared to the scores that get produced today.

the fact that anyone who is thinking that writing film music on the computer or using synths is progress, is really an illusion.

The medium does't affect the quality of a composition.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

The art? I don't think so. But the craft is certainly changing.

I was about to post the same thing.

[Hlao-roo 389]

The medium does't affect the quality of a composition.

Perhaps not directly, but I think it has an influence.

[Ludwig 1,120]

There has been a gradual change in emphasis in film scoring of mainstream Hollywood films, especially action and fantasy-based films, over the past couple of decades. Essentially that change went from an emphasis on full melodies, a rich harmonic palette, and longer phrase structures, as in most Williams scores (Shore's LOTR is something of an exception), to an emphasis instead on rock-based rhythms, novel instrumental timbres, and textural layering of various recorded loops. Coming from a rock/pop background meant that these latter traits brought with them a simplified approach to melody, harmony, and phrase structure in favour of the former traits. Those who especially prize the former features are the ones who are most likely to be disappointed by the new ones and feel that something has been "lost" in most contemporary film scores. And especially for those who feel that way, it's a good thing there are still new Williams scores.

[Hlao-roo 389]

There has been a gradual change in emphasis in film scoring of mainstream Hollywood films, especially action and fantasy-based films, over the past couple of decades. Essentially that change went from an emphasis on full melodies, a rich harmonic palette, and longer phrase structures, as in most Williams scores (Shore's LOTR is something of an exception), to an emphasis instead on rock-based rhythms, novel instrumental timbres, and textural layering of various recorded loops. Coming from a rock/pop background meant that these latter traits brought with them a simplified approach to melody, harmony, and phrase structure in favour of the former traits. Those who especially prize the former features are the ones who are most likely to be disappointed by the new ones and feel that something has been "lost" in most contemporary film scores. And especially for those who feel that way, it's a good thing there are still new Williams scores.

On the other hand, those who feel that rock/pop elements were underrepresented in film music in previous decades are more likely to celebrate the trends that prevail today.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The glass is always half full?

[Ludwig 1,120]

There has been a gradual change in emphasis in film scoring of mainstream Hollywood films, especially action and fantasy-based films, over the past couple of decades. Essentially that change went from an emphasis on full melodies, a rich harmonic palette, and longer phrase structures, as in most Williams scores (Shore's LOTR is something of an exception), to an emphasis instead on rock-based rhythms, novel instrumental timbres, and textural layering of various recorded loops. Coming from a rock/pop background meant that these latter traits brought with them a simplified approach to melody, harmony, and phrase structure in favour of the former traits. Those who especially prize the former features are the ones who are most likely to be disappointed by the new ones and feel that something has been "lost" in most contemporary film scores. And especially for those who feel that way, it's a good thing there are still new Williams scores.

On the other hand, those who feel that rock/pop elements were underrepresented in film music in previous decades are more likely to celebrate the trends that prevail today.

Surely, which is why there's no definitive answer to the question. It is a matter of taste. But my guess is that the majority of members here do feel a loss of sorts in contemporary film music. We should put it to a vote.

Steef, whose glass?

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I find it hard to believe that sort of thing hasn't already been put to a vote on this site.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Alan's glass

[Matt C 452]

If you mean by actual themes, then for the most part yes...

Yeah. You do have the occasional exception, but it's moving towards television (or it was) as well as video games. Shows like LOST, The Cape, and Robin Hood have strong themes and related motifs.

[Ricard 2,242]

Shows like LOST, The Cape, and Robin Hood have strong themes and related motifs.

If those themes can be considered "strong", the ones from the '70s and '80s TV series are undoubtedly "invincible"

[Matt C 452]

I was born in the late 1980s... so I don't remember many of those themes growing up. Just The A-Team, M*A*S*H* and Mission: Impossible -- all of them from syndicated re-runs.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

There has been a gradual change in emphasis in film scoring of mainstream Hollywood films, especially action and fantasy-based films, over the past couple of decades. Essentially that change went from an emphasis on full melodies, a rich harmonic palette, and longer phrase structures, as in most Williams scores (Shore's LOTR is something of an exception), to an emphasis instead on rock-based rhythms, novel instrumental timbres, and textural layering of various recorded loops. Coming from a rock/pop background meant that these latter traits brought with them a simplified approach to melody, harmony, and phrase structure in favour of the former traits. Those who especially prize the former features are the ones who are most likely to be disappointed by the new ones and feel that something has been "lost" in most contemporary film scores. And especially for those who feel that way, it's a good thing there are still new Williams scores.

On the other hand, those who feel that rock/pop elements were underrepresented in film music in previous decades are more likely to celebrate the trends that prevail today.

i.e. Thor Joachim Haga.

Alan's glass

No, Philip's

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Shows like LOST, The Cape, and Robin Hood have strong themes and related motifs.

If those themes can be considered "strong", the ones from the '70s and '80s TV series are undoubtedly "invincible"

[tedfud 38]

an important thing to bear in mind is that now throughout the creation of a movie, music is being added to picture. From so many disjointed sources that it is surprising that films scores aren't even more homogenised . Again this is one of the things that Mr Zimmer has dealt with so effectively by being able to supply music from the first day of shooting . At least it his music ! I wonder how many times he has to fight against a scene tempt with one of his old scores.....

t

[Ricard 2,242]

Care to explain, Stiff?