Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Yes, I am just overjoyed at the return of the Moon Runes material. It is so perfect for what it represents, isn't it? I remember thinking after AUJ how much that music actually sounds like what you see during that scene, the moon beams shining through the waterfall. If that makes any sense. I can't wait to see what's on screen this time.I do have to say though, I'm not the biggest fan of what is apparently Legolas' motive. The phrygian stuff is a little too on the nose for me there. Conjures up too many non-Middle-Earth associations in my mind. I'm sure it'll grow on me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 What's exactly meant with Legolas' theme, alias "the phrygian stuff"? I have a hard time finding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I'm going off what Doug said. I think the bit at 7:32 in Flies and Spiders is for Legolas. I'm not sure yet if he has a consistent motive or if it's just in general the use of phrygian mode over major harmony, like Doug said, that represents him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Yes the Legolas material seems basically to be the Woodland Realm theme in action mode and can be heard e.g. in Flies and Spiders and The Hunters (accompanied by swirling swelling strings that draw connection to his exploits in RotK).2:30 - 2:40 of "The Quest For Erebor" seems to quote Gandalf the Grey's theme, 2:30 - 2:35 especially, with the rest being an expansion.Yes it is Gandalf The Grey theme. Doug confirmed that some time ago in his Twitter! Good spotting Joe as most of us missed that at first.Thats Baggins/Took, or so our resident them experts said.Nope.Actually, there was a change in the school of thought some time ago. I think its been confirmed that that instance is indeed Gandalf's theme.Yeap.Doug said it's Gandalf's theme. And so it is, and ever shall be.AMEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I'm going off what Doug said. I think the bit at 7:32 in Flies and Spiders is for Legolas. I'm not sure yet if he has a consistent motive or if it's just in general the use of phrygian mode over major harmony, like Doug said, that represents him.You refer to the Special Edition track? Can't find something specific there for Legolas.The regular edition has Tauriel's theme at that time stamp.Is the choral counterline to Tauriel's "Silence Of The Lambs" theme thematic in itself, by the way? It appears numerous times in loud brass fashion. You can find it in the booklet, in the sketch for Tauriel's theme, in the staff marked as "Solo Soprano". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Special edition yes. Tauriel's theme appears after what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Is the choral counterline to Tauriel's "Silence Of The Lambs" theme thematic in itself, by the way? It appears numerous times in loud brass fashion. You can find it in the booklet, in the sketch for Tauriel's theme, in the staff marked as "Solo Soprano".It's the B-section to Tauriel's theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 186 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I do have to say though, I'm not the biggest fan of what is apparently Legolas' motive. The phrygian stuff is a little too on the nose for me there. Conjures up too many non-Middle-Earth associations in my mind.How so? Since the first appearance of the Lothlorien theme in FotR the phrygian mode has been connected to Elvish settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 But it always felt more veiled to me. These instances seem very explicit if that makes any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 It doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 186 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I'd say they're explicit in the same way the Helm's Deep actoon version of Lothlorien was explicit. The more "athmospheric" version from "Woodland realm" sounds similarly veiled to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 Well I suppose this will help us point out the exact timestamps of Beorn's Theme... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 These staves mean nothing to me!Is it me or does the theme for Lake-Sound share a similarity, structurally wise with John Debney's main theme for Lair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 These staves mean nothing to me!Is it me or does the theme for Lake-Sound share a similarity, structurally wise with John Debney's main theme for Lair?that theme sounds familiar to me, but i wouldnt have thought Lair... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Everytime I kept humming it in my mind it shifted to the Lair theme for some reason. Not really the notes I guess, more the shape of the theme.In a similar fasion Smaug's theme seems not dissimilar to the Lothlorien theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Everytime I kept humming it in my mind it shifted to the Lair theme for some reason. Not really the notes I guess, more the shape of the theme.In a similar fasion Smaug's theme seems not dissimilar to the Lothlorien theme.It is the Eastern influences in both Lothlorien and Smaug's themes that Shore uses to depict the more ancient ages and creatures of Middle Earth. Same goes for Sauron's theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I didnt mean the orchestration, i meant the shape of the melody, the structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 That's what Icanus was referring to. Lothlorien suggests the ancient Arabic mode 'maqām hijāz' transposed to Western equal temperament while Sauron's theme/Evil of the RIng is in the exotic-sounding D harmonic minor. The 'otherness' of both of these themes is down to the augmented second interval, which is also exploited by Smaug's primary theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 That's what Incanus was referring to. Lothlorien suggests the ancient Arabic mode 'maqām hijāz' transposed to Western equal temperament while Sauron's theme/Evil of the RIng is in the exotic-sounding D harmonic minor. The 'otherness' of both of these themes is down to the augmented second interval, which is also exploited by Smaug's primary theme.Well yes although your explanation sounds a bit more precise and academic and goes over the head of most who do not understand musical theory. But yes there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I told you before not to patronize me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 So are you going to see the film with your sister today or what? Makes sure to make copious notes on the music when watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,647 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I'm mid-listen now, and I want to thank you for making this thread, Jason. Without timestamps for themes, I'm clueless. I didn't know what most of the themes signified from AUJ (or even that they were themes!) until I went through with this guide yesterday, and I'm following along during my first listen to the score now. Very helpful.My spouse and I are skipping work on Friday to see this, and I'm genuinely fully excited for DoS for the first time while I'm listening to this.BTW The Forest River is amazing, and so is Tauriel's A-theme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Yes, Tauriel's A is quite amazing! Incanus and SafeUnderHill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 An awesome theme for an awesome character [/controversial] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Yes, Tauriel's A is quite amazing!Her material is some of the strongest in the score, strangely enough.I just noted the instances Jason calls Thranduil's Theme in DoS and I don't agree on this point. I need to see the film to confirm my theories of it being music for either Thorin or Bilbo's burglarious sneaking around (more likely candidate to my ears) and not for Thranduil. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 I'm mid-listen now, and I want to thank you for making this thread, Jason. Without timestamps for themes, I'm clueless. I didn't know what most of the themes signified from AUJ (or even that they were themes!) until I went through with this guide yesterday, and I'm following along during my first listen to the score now. Very helpful.My spouse and I are skipping work on Friday to see this, and I'm genuinely fully excited for DoS for the first time while I'm listening to this.BTW The Forest River is amazing, and so is Tauriel's A-theme Glad you enjoyed it Mike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 So are you going to see the film with your sister today or what? Makes sure to make copious notes on the music when watching.Tomorrow, and i plan to watch and enjoy the film, not study it, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 So are you going to see the film with your sister today or what? Makes sure to make copious notes on the music when watching.Tomorrow, and i plan to watch and enjoy the film, not study it, sorry.It was a joke Stefan! Some of that strange stuff I try on other people from time to time with varying degrees of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Humor, difficult, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Hey I was joking too. I will be at the theater with a pen, notepad, stopwatch and a metronome. Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Hey I was joking too. I will be at the theater with a pen, notepad, stopwatch and a metronome.Your sister can fill you in on the movie's details whilst you scribble studiously through the film's running time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 The revelation that Smaug is Bilbo's father will floor you though so it's best you know before you see it. Glóin the Dark and Dixon Hill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuBen_Kenobi 19 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Jason, you did an amazing job with the themes, thank you very much, I really enjoy to discover them with your help, but I think you confused Tauriel´s theme with The Woodland Realm´s one in "The Hunters" track.I´ve just finished my first real listening of the score and I have to say that I like it, but at this moment I feel a little disappointed and really prefer AUJ. I´m sure that with more listenings it is going to grown on me (AUJ did a lot and now I love it, I think it´s a really entertaining score). On the new themes my absolutely favorite is Tauriel´s. I find the rest of new themes pretty bland except The House of Durin. The first disc is kind of boring except for the highlight of "The Forest River". The second is better, specially the Smaug stuff but I really miss Bilbo´s, Gandalf´s and Company´s material.By the way, I´m going to watch the movie tomorrow and I´m sure it will be amazing .P.S.: I like the song, but don´t know if it works in the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 I think you confused Tauriel´s theme with The Woodland Realm´s one in "The Hunters" track.What timestamp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuBen_Kenobi 19 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I think you confused Tauriel´s theme with The Woodland Realm´s one in "The Hunters" track.What timestamp?All of them :4,49 ; 5,14 ; 5,41; 8,28 ; 8,57where you said Tauriel´s I think it always The Woodland´s theme in heroic variation. I don´t listening any Tauriel ´s theme (or at least her A theme) in that track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 RuBen is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 Wow, you're right! I dunno how that happened..... fixed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,688 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 There's a grammatical error in Peter Jackson's comments in the SE liner notes. At least it's there in the Watertower digital version. And it's not just a typo, it happens multiple times.It's = IT IS, Sir Peter.PS. Can't wait to see your movie. Be nicer to Howard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Hey I was joking too. I will be at the theater with a pen, notepad, stopwatch and a metronome.Your sister can fill you in on the movie's details whilst you scribble studiously through the film's running time.She will be looking out for Bunnies of Doom, the eagles and complaining that the film hasnt got enough Gandalf and too much romantic stuff in it (she doesnt care for romantic stuff) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 BTW, I totally only hear Gandalf The Grey at 2:30 of Quest for Erebor now. It's like a prototype version of the theme, since it's before Gandalf has started assembling everyone and begun the Quest of Erebor I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 BTW, I totally only hear Gandalf The Grey at 2:30 of Quest for Erebor now. It's like a prototype version of the theme, since it's before Gandalf has started assembling everyone and begun the Quest of Erebor I guessI wish I could remember what it specifically underscored in the film. I think it played when he first mentioned his name to Thorin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 SPOILERS!!!For god sake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 All spoilers went out the window when the Bree music appeared Glóin the Dark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 186 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Hey I was joking too. I will be at the theater with a pen, notepad, stopwatch and a metronome.The metronome especially will be agreeable to the rest of the audience, I'm certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,984 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Ironically, I've not managed to give the actual discs a proper listen yet. So I haven't heard SE properly. After all this waiting for delivery. The only thing I noticed is that this spider motif from AUJ now makes an appearance.Karol - who is going to see the film this Friday coming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Well I suppose this will help us point out the exact timestamps of Beorn's Theme...IMAG0440.jpgI believe that quote is from 2:21 onwards in "Wilderland".Btw, the Arkenstone theme on celli in "Wilderland" plays as Gandalf convinces Thorin to go on the quest for the Arkenstone, so he can gather the seven dwarf armies and retake Erebor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 12, 2013 Author Share Posted December 12, 2013 So the beginning of Wilderland is still during the prologue sequence? Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Um, was it not obvious? The bombastic statement of Smaug theme in the middle was obviously for the main title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 So the beginning of Wilderland is still during the prologue sequence? Cool!Actually, I'm not sure if you can even call it a prologue. It's too short and not really self-contained enough for my taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 12, 2013 Author Share Posted December 12, 2013 Um, was it not obvious? The bombastic statement of Smaug theme in the middle was obviously for the main title.Well don't you like to sound so superior all the time. Yes it was of course obvious to me months ago that that statement plays over the title card for the film, but in all four prior movies the title is never the first thing shown after the prologue ends. There is always a few scenes back in the present time line before the title is shown. Concerning Hobbits, Frodo and Sam in Emyn Muil, Frodo Sam and Gollum waking up, Frodo and Old Bilbo, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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