#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 We really can't be sure until we get a statement from Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Are you being ironic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I may be.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 If I understand you correctly, you're implying that Shore had already written The House of Durin theme before scoring AUJ, and then chose to write a "combo" melody to be used under the opening company logos that "seeds" both the House of Durin and the History of the Ring themes at the same time. Is that right?*I think* Doug's implying that it was the other way round. The House of Durin was constructed from the outline of theme in My Dear Frodo and A Good Omen, along with Thorin's Theme/Erebor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 No, I think Doug means that the wrote The House Of Durin along with his other material for AuJ and seeded it into that score. A brilliant case of foreshadowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 No, I think Doug means that the wrote The House Of Durin along with his other material for AuJ and seeded it into that score. A brilliant case of foreshadowing.Similar to the Gondor theme being written in time for Fellowship but not getting fully utilized until ROTK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 No, I think Doug means that the wrote The House Of Durin along with his other material for AuJ and seeded it into that score. A brilliant case of foreshadowing.Similar to the Gondor theme being written in time for Fellowship but not getting fully utilized until ROTK. Yeah pretty neat foreshadowing indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Why not just use the straight forward House of Durin there?Because of the tone of the film, I should think.I don't hear it there. Only what appears to be some variant of Bard's theme.Bards theme and some element of the History theme! What is the theme at 1:02 of Feast of Starlight, its also at 2:48 of The Woodland Realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 There is a slight similarity, though I doubt its anything special.The Beginning of Flies and Spiders reminds me of The Palantir BTW.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,220 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I think there's a distinct similarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Nothing. It's just a whisp of cloud! Glóin the Dark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 It's moving fast... in a minor mode. Glóin the Dark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Dwarf antics motif from Bag End!Hide! Glóin the Dark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 The spirit of the Dwarf End Cap has lost none of it potency but it cannot yet take musical form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 OK, two things I've discovered in Flies And Spiders.So, LeBlanc, any thoughts on that?Well I am sure thoughts are paltry compared to Leblanc's but the second skipping motif sounds very similar to some of the fast Hobbit material to me. It reminds me of the similar passage found e.g. in Gandalf the White in TTT when the fellowship is departing Fangorn at 4:26. Is that just the Hobbit End Cap figure repeated quickly in succession as that is what Doug mentions in his book for that moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted December 16, 2013 Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 OK, two things I've discovered in Flies And Spiders.So, LeBlanc, any thoughts on that?Sheesh, you can't even wait 24 hours for a response? I barely JWFan on weekends!Well first of all, of course that's the Erebor theme at 1:28, I've always known it and I don't know how it got neglected on the master list. I'll put it in with my next round of updates.As for the bit at 4:20, that doesn't really sound like Crochet to me. I think it's just a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I JWFan 24/7! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 It reminds me of the similar passage found e.g. in Gandalf the White in TTT when the fellowship is departing Fangorn at 4:26.Me as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 What is the theme at 1:02 of Feast of Starlight? its also at 2:48 of The Woodland Realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 What is the theme at 1:02 of Feast of Starlight? its also at 2:48 of The Woodland Realm.That my lad is a dragon....erm I mean a good question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 BTW, Is it my imagination, or does that "Stinger" at the end of The Courage of Hobbits show up in The Hunters?Timestamps in a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 What is the theme at 1:02 of Feast of Starlight? its also at 2:48 of The Woodland Realm.Those are the accompanying chords to the B Section of Tauriel and Kili's Love Theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted December 18, 2013 Author Share Posted December 18, 2013 2 questions:Are the pounding notes that end "Barrels Out Of Bond" related to the Shire theme? Or another theme?What about the loud burst from 2:44-2:58 of Durin's Folk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,220 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 What about the loud burst from 2:44-2:58 of Durin's Folk?I think that's the Laketown theme.But played in an aggressive manner and rhythm which makes it reminiscent of The Threat of Mordor.No, I take that Laketown comment back. I'm not sure now where in the film (if at all) it appears, and it may just be at Dol Guldur... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 It was replaced in the film with a revised version that is similar. It plays when the company gets captured trying to steal weapons in Lake-town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,220 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 That was what I was initially thinking. In that case, I take back my retraction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Well, it doesn't sound like Lake-town to me. Like you said, it sounds more like one of the supporting Sauron themes. How about 1:28 to 1:33 of Bard, a Man of Lake-town (which plays as Bard knocks the dwarfs weapons away) is that related to his theme? Or a different theme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 It plays when the company gets captured trying to steal weapons in Lake-town.I think that is an inverted version of the "Politicians of Laketown" theme. You know, the one played on the clavicord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 I know what the Politicians of Lake-town theme is dude.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,220 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Well, it doesn't sound like Lake-town to me. Like you said, it sounds more like one of the supporting Sauron themes.If you listen to 2:51-2:55 on its own, I think the skeleton of the Laketown theme is apparent.How about 1:28 to 1:33 of Bard, a Man of Lake-town (which plays as Bard knocks the dwarfs weapons away) is that relat d to his theme? Or a different theme?That's basically the Erebor motif, is it not? But with the even-numbered notes each lowered one step. I have a vague notion of having heard something similar elsewhere, but can't quite place it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke905 18 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 How about 1:28 to 1:33 of Bard, a Man of Lake-town (which plays as Bard knocks the dwarfs weapons away) is that relat d to his theme? Or a different theme?It seems to me the same theme that we hear at 1:34 of Smaug, and reminds me You Know My Name.This part, however, is not used in the film, but I think it is a kind of action version of Bard's theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 How about 1:28 to 1:33 of Bard, a Man of Lake-town (which plays as Bard knocks the dwarfs weapons away) is that relat d to his theme? Or a different theme? It seems to me the same theme that we hear at 1:34 of Smaug, and reminds me You Know My Name. This part, however, is not used in the film, but I think it is a kind of action version of Bard's theme. It absolutely is used in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I agree with GK. I think that little fanfare is an inverted variation of the politicians theme. One should also note that there's a different version that plays in film, with a lot more going on underneath the fanfare.The rhythmic bit that concludes Barrels Out of Bond on the other hand is probably just incidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Does inverted mean the same thing as backwards? If not, what does it mean? Any way for a layman like me to spot inverted themes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Nvm....look below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Nope, backwards would be called retrograde. An inverted line is basically the mirror image of the original line. Take the Shire theme. The opening three pitches rise up the scale, "duh duh duh." The inverted theme would descend with the same intervals instead of rise.So really, the Smaug theme is retorograded and not inverted. Or do I need to go back to theory 101? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Oops, I don't know what I was thinking there....somehow my basic rudiments just went out the window for a second...sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 See I never got this whole backwards Smaug thing. If I hum the main Smaug theme, it's duh-duh (pause) duh-duh-duh-duh (so two notes then four). But the B Smaug Theme is dun (pause) dun-dun-dun (so one note then three). So how can a 4 note theme be a six note theme backwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 It's not a perfect retrograde, but it's based around the same pitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Retrogrades can be handled differently. An exact/perfect retrograde reverses both all the pitches and the rhythm. But some Retrogrades can just reverse the pitches in an alternative rhythm, or the rhythm with alternative pitches. There's no hard and fast rule really.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 In F minor, the first theme goes C-B, C-B-Ab-G-G. The secondary theme starts G, G-Ab-B. So it's really just the head of the melody that is related, because then the secondary theme slithers up chromatically.Incidentally, this got me listening to My Dear Frodo at 4:57 with Smaug's secondary theme referenced by the horns under his main theme. What a great moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I love how that one piece comprehensively explores the main thematic ideas of the trilogy. Great stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Indeed!Michael - now listening to Barrels Out Of Bond and The Forest River... and probably more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Incidentally, this got me listening to My Dear Frodo at 4:57 with Smaug's secondary theme referenced by the horns under his main theme. What a great moment.Wow I finally hear it now! Man, that's pretty subtle/hidden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I love how that one piece comprehensively explores the main thematic ideas of the trilogy. Great stuff.Yeap! A brilliant prologue indeed.Oh and Jason the rising and falling theme from The Woodland Realm you named tentatively as Thranduil's theme underscores his discussion with Thorin so I think it is rather Thorin's Pride motif than anything associated with Thranduil as Thorin flat out refuses the king's bargain (out of pride). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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