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The Themes of Howard Shore's The Hobbit

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So Tauriel was a man?

Human women I mean.

Thats why the females are seen hiding in the Glittering Caves with the children. Or why ROTK has no women fighting in Minas Tirith.

Tolkien never specifically wrote that women are not warriors in Middle-Earth

He did say in The Laws and Customs of the Eldar that Elf women are mostly healers not warriors, but that they could fight if they had to.

There was also that one lady that led her people in the Sil (Haleth?)

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In a situation like that, it would make sense for the woman to throw their lot in with the men. I have no problem with that. I would however have a problem if they were shown cutting through Orcs like nobody's business, given how shit the men of Laketown are in combat.

The reason I don't like that scene is the Alfrid in a dress shit, coming so soon after Thorin's charge. They needed to do away with all the bullshit comedy by that point.

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We aren't shown a single one on either in 6 films. Save Eowyn!

Seems pretty clear.

Just because we didn't see them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Eowyn specifically mentions in TTT that the women of old had to learn how to fight to survive, didn't she?

BOOM!

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That's because Rohan essentially fell from grace and became lesser people. Doesn't change the fact that women warriors exist in PJ's Middle-Earth.

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Well yes, but that's not what I meant. But by TTT, you're seeing a Rohan that's fallen from its prime, become more docile and weak since the Golden days of Aldor the Old.

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Sounds like it.

Also: my god, I forgot how much better AUJ sounds compared to the NZO.

Well it is the original LotR orchestra after all with Shore conducting.

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I would say the reception would about the same. Purists would be in different stages of dislike for the liberties taken with the source material and fans of fantasy movies would probably either love it or have become fatigued over the period of three films. Of course there would be no larger discussion about it anywhere, except some fan gatherings or events probably, so the gnawing of old grudges or gleeful praise would remain isolated to groups of individual movie goers all over the world. And people who did not like the movie would certainly not attend any fan gatherings so those who thought these were swell films could still share their joy without the presence of too many nay sayers and wrinkled brows.

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I believe it's just a coincidence there, since it's for the moment Bilbo decides to spare Gollum's life. Absolutely nothing to do with the Dwarves.

And before anyone does that, I'll do it myself:

I guess it's a case of a theme being used because it works emotionally, rather than being used because it makes sense thematically

Well, I just don't believe that's the case here!

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The House of Durin figure also seems to appear at 5:53 of Brass Buttons!

I wonder if it is the House of Durin as the music underscores Bilbo and Gollum if I remember correctly, the moment when Bilbo decides to leap over him and run for the cave exit.

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I don't think Shore thinks are rigidly about the themes as we like to catalog them here. His use is more by feel and tone than "character x is on screen so i will use theme y now", imo.

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I don't think Shore thinks are rigidly about the themes as we like to catalog them here. His use is more by feel and tone than "character x is on screen so i will use theme y now", imo.

Also he uses similar phrases all over the scores without there being strict thematic connection as well so we can't catalogue every appearance of something slightly similar as the same theme.

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I wonder if it is the House of Durin as the music underscores Bilbo and Gollum if I remember correctly, the moment when Bilbo decides to leap over him and run for the cave exit.

Yeah, sure, let's ignore what BloodBoal just said above you!

;)

I don't think Shore thinks are rigidly about the themes as we like to catalog them here. His use is more by feel and tone than "character x is on screen so i will use theme y now", imo.

Sure, but you don't see him using the Nazg├╗l theme for the Dwarves, for example!

Oops...

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I had thought that was just some kind of eagles theme, given that you hear the brief reprise when the Eagles go away later in the track (I remember someone once saying this was a reference to The Dwarf Lords theme, but that can't be). I think the similarity to the second section of Thorin's theme may be a coincidence, even though you don't seem to believe in these. Otherwise, how are we to explain how the similarity between the second section of Thorin's theme and the music that becomes associated with Legolas' mother, as you say?

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I noticed 0:18 - 0:25 of 'A Good Omen' bares a strong resemblance to the second section of Thorin's theme. This makes sense for the scene in which is life is in peril and the eagles are rescuing him.

The theme (which becomes associated with Legolas's mother in BOTFA) also appears at 3:42 of 'A Good Omen'.

I just hear a faint similarity.

Coincidence, I say!

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This has probably been discussed, so I may sound like a rookie (even though I've read Doug's book cover to cover many times), but what is the choral moment at 7:00 in Brass Buttons? It's probably embarrassingly obvious, but for some reason I just can't pin it down.

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