TWIN PEAKS

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

5 hours ago, Quintus said:

 

 

 The Missing Pieces though I have no interest in, because it is deleted footage and therefore not canon. Lynch and Frost are professional filmmakers, and I'm trusting that they will succeed in telling the story they are trying to tell via their completed and released work in the Twin Peaks universe. If a person is required to also watch obsolete deleted scenes or study external literature in order to fully understand the story then they will have failed. 

 

Interesting how you seem to impose your own rules for failure or success on film or tv makers. 

 

I doubt this will happen though. Remember the endless exposition in ep 7 regarding what happened to Laura and Cooper 25 years ago?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

It was a unicorn! 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Thor 7,465]

1 hour ago, BloodBoal said:

Interesting breakdown of the episode: Twin Peaks: Trying to Make Sense of the Show’s Most Bonkers Episod

 

 

 

It's an OK breakdown, but a bit too literal. It also misses a few beats, for example in the failure to acknowledge that 'above the convenience store' doesn't mean in a literal second floor room, but rather as spirits in an ethereal plane above the store/world.

[Quintus 5,399]

30 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Funny how memories play tricks on you. I thought it was a unicorn too, but turns out it was just a regular white horse!

 

 

I was joking

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

19 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

It's an OK breakdown, but a bit too literal. It also misses a few beats, for example in the failure to acknowledge that 'above the convenience store' doesn't mean in a literal second floor room, but rather as spirits in an ethereal plane above the store/world.

 

I read the Vanity Fair article yesterday and meant to link it myself but forgot. I much prefer that concise style of recap rather than the masturbatory write-up of someone using it as an opportunity to stare admiringly at themselves after they hit the submit button. I prefer to leave any deeper formulations and contemplation to my own mind. 

[Thor 7,465]

To each their own. I prefer writers who contextualize abstract plots and visuals like these not only in relation to the narrative as a whole, but also in relation to their possibly symbolic/mythological meaning and to the filmmaker's other works.

 

13 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

But as they point out, we see that second floor in Fire Walk With Me!

 

But we don't see it in this one. Hence the more abstract meaning of "living above".

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

15 minutes ago, Thor said:

To each their own. I prefer writers who contextualize abstract plots and visuals like these not only in relation to the narrative as a whole, but also in relation to their possibly symbolic/mythological meaning and to the filmmaker's other works.

 

Out of interest, was the chap who you read the one who concluded that last season was largely about the creation of the Black Lodge and not the birth of Bob? 

[Thor 7,465]

4 minutes ago, Quintus said:

 

Out of interest, was the chap who you read the one who concluded that last season was largely about the creation of the Black Lodge and not the birth of Bob? 

 

He said it was both.

 

I still maintain that the imagery connoted more (to me) than just the birth of BOB, and that the 'space' inside the bomb is outside time itself (including the mountaintop building). The Giant, for example, is obviously older in looks, but the events predate TWIN PEAKS. So if not the creation of the Black Lodge itself, then the particular place that is relevant for the mythological backdrop of this particular story.

[Quintus 5,399]

22 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

He said it was both.

 

I still maintain that the imagery connoted more (to me) than just the birth of BOB,

 

There was a lot more there than just Bob being 'born', that's why I said "largely". To say the entire thing was about just that would be awfully literal minded. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Thor said:

The Giant, for example, is obviously older in looks,

 

 

 

I suspect that's simply an unavoidable 'plot hole'.

 

Quote

but the events predate TWIN PEAKS. So if not the creation of the Black Lodge itself, then the particular place that is relevant for the mythological backdrop of this particular story.

 

Of course. 

 

Edit - hang on, did you mean to say it symbolised the creation of the Red Room, then? Excuse me if I misunderstood. 

[Thor 7,465]

No, I was more thinking that if the Black Lodge is considered a form of wider "Hell" (going back to the beginning of time), then whatever mythological spaces are relevant in TWIN PEAKS (like the Red Room) were being created in this episode.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Thor 7,465]

1 minute ago, BloodBoal said:

I always assumed the Red Room was the Black Lodge.

 

Me too, untill the third season where it's been expanded into all kinds of cosmic spaces, and everything inbetween.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

26 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Well, it's a bit weird, because in Season 2, the Man From Another Place said "this is the waiting room", suggesting it may be some sort of Purgatory, a link between the Black Lodge and the White Lodge.

 

But then, Hawk also described the Black Lodge this way: "There is also a legend of a place called the Black Lodge. The shadow-self of the White Lodge. The legend says that every spirit must pass through there on the way to perfection. There, you will meet your own shadow self. My people call it 'The Dweller on the Threshold' [...] But it is said, if you confront the Black Lodge with imperfect courage, it will utterly annihilate your soul.", which is exactly what Cooper went through during the finale of Season 2

 

 

Not entirely, not in Coop's case. This is exactly what happened to Windom Earle though, certainly. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Thor 7,465]

Bob is certainly not dead, I think. If he has indeed been removed from Evil Coop, I'm guessing he's floating around somewhere (after all, he also moved around as an owl in the original seasons, LADYHAWKE-style). Of course, whether he takes the Frank Silva form again, is unknown. I'd like for the CGI wizard to make one more stunning rendition of Silva as BOB.

[Quintus 5,399]

The Woodsmen exorcised Bob out of Bad Coop's "body", leaving just the doppelganger itself behind. What that means for that empty vessel next episode is anybody's guess. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

42 minutes ago, Quintus said:

The Woodsmen exorcised Bob out of Bad Coop's "body", leaving just the doppelganger itself behind. What that means for that empty vessel next episode is anybody's guess. 

 

I was just about to ask that!

 

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Thor 7,465]

Ha, ha....I wouldn't put it past Lynch.

[Quintus 5,399]

And you'd think it was BRILLIANT. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

I can imagine it would still be strangely entertaining.

[Jay 37,287]

Twin Peaks 3x01 The Return, Part 1

Overall I liked it, I didn't feel let down, it was nice to return to the world of the show while simultaneously being introduced to completely new characters, situations, and locations.  In fact this episode was probably what, 90% new characters and 10% the old ones?

 

More specific comments about each storyline, in order of best to worst

The South Dakota Librarian Murder and the School Principal Accused of the Crime - By far the best story!  Every bit of it was perfectly executed, from the quirky lady who smells something and calls the police, to the cops themselves, the weird mainteance guy they talk to (and the phone call he makes after), the discovery of the body, the lady from Hung being the one that takes the pictures and runs the prints, Matthew Lillard's performance as the principal, his interrogation and how you figure he's hiding something but not sure if he did the crime or not, the fact that the body is so weird (made me miss HANNIBAL!) and you don't know if there will be a supernatural element to this storyline or not, to the weird flesh found in his trunk.  Great stuff all around here, looking forward to seeing where it goes next week!

 

The Kid Paid to Watch an Empty Box In New York City - Also pretty much perfectly executed, the kid was kinda weird, the girl visiting him was very interesting.  At first I thought she was a spy sent by someone in opposition to whoever hired the kid, but I guess she just wanted to bone him.  I loved that it wasn't just a setup for a future episode, that we saw the create show up in the box and then break it and murder them; Creepy kill!  Good stuff.

 

... that's actually it as far as good, fleshed out, felt like you watched a proper TV episode go.  The rest were just small pieces that didn't do a whole lot:

 

Evil Cooper meeting up with some associates - This was actually really cool too.  I mean, Evil Coop looks awesome (Kyle MacLachlan looks younger here than on Portlandia or as Black Lodge Coop) and the house he goes to was full of Lynchian weirdos, very creepy.  But why couldn't we see what they get up to next within the same episode?

 

The Log Lady calls Hawk with a Message about Agent Cooper - Great to see both these guys, liked their interaction, decent enough setup for whatever is to come with Hawk's investigation.  The thought of Andy and Lucy with a 24 year old kid... wow!  Everybody here actually aged pretty well.

 

Insurance guy comes in asking Lucy about Sheriff Truman - Kind of awkwardly handled exposition about why Harry won't be on the show I think

 

Dale Cooper talking to the Giant in the Black Lodge  - So I guess this basically is just to tell us that Coop's been stuck in the Black Lodge for 25 years while his body possessed by Killer Bob has been doing... whatever?

 

Opening Flashback of Laura telling Coop they'll see each other in 25 years - I thought it was necessary to open the show with this.  For one, EVERYBODY watching remembers that Laura told him that.  For another, its too jarring and silly to go from this 90's-era Kyle MacLachlan in bad Old Man makeup, to the opening credits, to current, actually old-Kyle MacLachlan in the lodge.  Well, not a big deal really.

 

Jerry Horne chats with Benjamin Horne - We weren't even positive that was Ashley Judd at first; She had her eyes but looked like she had a TON of work done since her prime.  This entire scene was pointless, really.  Lacked the fun most all Horne scenes had back in the day...

 

Doctor Jakoby gets 4 shovels delivered to his cabin - Cough.

 

So overall a success, but surprising to me was that not only was there WAY more time devoted to brand new characters instead of the old ones, but that the storylines the new characters got were way better than the storylines of the old ones too.

 

And that's the thing, I think the episode could have been made stronger by stripping out half of those short Twin Peaks set scenes, and saving them for an episode where the next beat of their story could happen within the same episode, and move whatever the next beat of the ones that stayed in up to happen in this episode too.

 

Another reason a lot of them fell flat was the total lack of music!  The famous themes from the 90s show really should have been used when we first saw the hotel again, saw the sheriff station again, saw Jakoby again, etc.  With no music all these short scenes seemed extra pointless.

 

On the other hand, the lack of music in the scenes with the new characters was fine.  Really all those scenes were just very well done.

 

Looking forward to episode 2!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nice, but dude....that was all 5 weeks ago for the rest of us.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That is untrue.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

29 minutes ago, Jay said:

Doctor Jakoby gets 4 shovels delivered to his cabin - Cough.

 

[...]

And that's the thing, I think the episode could have been made stronger by stripping out half of those short Twin Peaks set scenes, and saving them for an episode where the next beat of their story could happen within the same episode, and move whatever the next beat of the ones that stayed in up to happen in this episode too.

 

 

I think this series is going to take some getting used to for you.

[Thor 7,465]

42 minutes ago, Jay said:

Another reason a lot of them fell flat was the total lack of music!  The famous themes from the 90s show really should have been used when we first saw the hotel again, saw the sheriff station again, saw Jakoby again, etc.  With no music all these short scenes seemed extra pointless.

 

I don't necessarily agree that they are pointless, but it's a very different and new kind of aesthetic that we must accept; a different take on the aural landscape that isn't necessarily the same as the old series and film. But like we discussed awhile back, I -- too -- miss some Badalamenti music in the more comical moments, at least.

 

Glad you've started the show! Looking forward to your comments as you try to catch up to the rest of us.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

16 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

 

I think this series is going to take some getting used to for you.

 

He he he... 

[Quintus 5,399]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

 But why couldn't we see what they get up to next within the same episode?

 

 

 

That's cute. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Total noob!

[Quintus 5,399]

Btw, Ashley Judd rigorously denied any suggestion that she'd had "a ton of work done" in this comprehensive and fiercely articulate rebuttal piece, here:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/ashley-judd-slaps-media-in-the-face-for-speculation-over-her-puffy-appearance

 

I'm inclined to believe her.

 

Not that it's important to this, The Twin Peaks discussion. I currently have no clue what role her character and terminally ill husband/partner has to play in proceedings, but it think it'll be more key than other subplots which have been initiated. The many, many other subplots... 

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

She looked quite natural to me.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

10 minutes ago, Quintus said:

 

I'm inclined to believe her.

 

 

 

Surely the point is it doesn't matter if you do or not.

[Quintus 5,399]

7 hours ago, Stefancos said:

She looked quite natural to me.

 

She's 49 and she looks like an attractive 49 year old. I recall my own mother looked great at that age, my mates were a pain in the arse about it. She of course still looked quite different to how she appeared when she was in her twenties. 

 

7 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Surely the point is it doesn't matter if you do or not.

 

What do you mean? 

 

Just to add though, I have no younger point of reference for Mrs Judd since I don't recall ever seeing her in anything before Twin Peaks, but nothing unusual about her facial features stood out to me (since Jay mentioned it) when I watched her scenes other than the fact that I thought she was a very good looking woman for her age. 

 

[Romão 2,274]

Still concerning the music, I thought the music for this sequence was fantastic:

 

 

it's Bandalamenti, I assume

[KK 3,307]

On 3/21/2017 at 8:54 AM, BloodBoal said:

And we would have seen Diane.

 

On 3/21/2017 at 8:57 AM, Stefancos said:

I hope we don't see her on the new show!

 

On 3/21/2017 at 8:59 AM, nightscape94 said:

Lynch would never cross that injustice!

 

He he he...

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

2 hours ago, Romão said:

Still concerning the music, I thought the music for this sequence was fantastic:

 

 

it's Bandalamenti, I assume

 

Whoa. I am suddenly desperate to reacquaint myself with what little I know of this show and catch up. 

[KK 3,307]

That whole sequence was brilliant.

 

You would have loved the last episode Grey.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Hehehe. As I was watching this scene, I actually thought: "You know what? TGP would really dig this piece of music!". And there you go.

[Quintus 5,399]

7 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Surely the point is it doesn't matter if you do or not.

 

Re-reading this, I understand what you meant now. Ideally, it wouldn't matter. But society's dim view means it sadly does. And by all accounts it very much did matter to Ashley Judd. 

 

/trying not to derail the thread. 

[Thor 7,465]

Yeah, the music in the orb sequence was great. Sounds more like Badalamenti than Lynch in this case. In fact, not that far removed from the gorgeous music Badalamenti wrote for the film GOLD COAST two years ago.

[Quintus 5,399]

Has it been confirmed to be original Badalamenti? I forgot to check. 

[Jay 37,287]

Well we recently saw young Ashley Judd in Kiss the Girls so the difference was more apparent 

[Jay 37,287]

Twin Peaks 3x02 The Return, Part 2

 

Pretty much just as good as the first episode.  The best storylines from that were also the best storylines here, and everything is moving along at a perfectly acceptable pace.

 

South Dakota Librarian murder - Weird scene between Matthew Lillard and his wife in jail; I guess their marriage is not exactly a happy one.  So she's sleeping with their lawyer and he's sleeping with his assistant?  Damn.  Creepy imagery of the coal miner looking dude in the next cell that disappears.  Is the gist of this storyline that Killer Bob inhabited Matthew Lillard and killed the librarian, and other bad members of the black lodge are watching him now?  Hmmm.

 

The continuing adventures of Evil Coop - So much stuff happened here it's hard to unpack it all.  What exactly was the "job" he got those 2 people from that weird house to do last week, was it all about framing Matthew Lillard for the librarian murder?  This week he realizes someone hired them to kill him, so he kills Jack and the female one.  it was weird how he killed jack, he just kind of mushed his face?  And the guy from the house, he's in jail, or maybe not, and how did Evil Coop instantly get a recording of the phone call the girl was making as soon as it happened on what looked like a cassette recorder?  Loved the interesting fact that he's supposed to return to the black lodge but doesn't want to.  Finally we have the main drive of his character for the season (or at least for now).

 

Good Coop stuck in the Black Lodge - Neat to see older Laura Palmer, and older one-armed-shoe-salesman guy (Mike, right?)... and older Leland Palmer!  The bit where "the arm" is not a tree with a Voldemort head was weird - is that supposed to be Mike's arm?  I think I'm forgetting some detail from the original series.  So Coop can't leave until the doppleganger returns, which makes sense.  Neat that everyone has a doppleganger, the Voldemort tree's doppleganger that we briefly seem was cool in that they managed to make one tree seem eviler than another   Pretty trippy sequence of Coop falling through the floor and into the glass box in New York City; Since this scene seems to take place before the scene where the kids watching it get murdered by a different entity in the box, I presume that entity was following Coop and saw them and decided to kill before continuing perhaps?

 

I hope we get to see normal Coop freed form the black lodge relatively soonish this season, and have him interact with our cast of characters and solve another crime, etc.  But maybe that won't happen until a sequel season, I dunno.

 

Log Lady Calls Hawk again - NOt sure what her message means, but when Hawk's in the woods, he finds the entrance to the black lodge, right?  So since Coop disappeared in 89, no one had been to that spot in the woods, he needed to read Coop's notes in the evidence box to find it?  Did Hawk arriving there and shining his light affect anything that we saw happen inside?

 

Some new characters have a brief exchange in Las Vegas - Um.....

 

Sarah Palmer watches TV with a big mirror behind her - ...er....

 

James enters the bar and Shelly sees him - .....These scenes set in TP are too short!