TWIN PEAKS

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Romão 2,274]

Audrey did say in a previous episode something like Billy was bleeding from the mouth, so I also assumed that guy in the cell was Billy

[Jay 37,358]

But didn't it seem like only the dirty cop guy could see or hear him?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Romão 2,274]

Or that, I stand corrected

[mstrox 6,651]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Confirmed?

 

Yes, BloodBoal just confirmed it!

 

10 minutes ago, Jay said:

Not really sure about the writing where Lucy ends up being the one to shoot Evil Coop

 

That was one thing about the scene I was actually attached to!

 

11 minutes ago, Jay said:

I've long forgotten whatever his goals have been since getting out of jail

 

We never really knew his goals.  In the second part, he explained that what he wanted was "this."  It was a playing card with a demonic looking thing on it.  Theories are that this is the "mother" (the creature seen in the glass box in Part 1, and again giving birth to the BOB bubble in Part 8), and possibly the frog-bug-looking thing from part 8 that crawled into the girl's mouth.  Anyway, apparently the coordinates are part of that plan - they led to the portal to The Fireman's palace (White Lodge?), and he was spit out to the Sheriff's Station.  IDK.

 

14 minutes ago, Jay said:

It was neat seeing Pete & Catherine Martell on the morning he's supposed to find her body - was that some kind out outtake filmed back in the day, or amazing de-aging tech? (or was that scene actually just in the pilot, I don't remember), and it was neat to see Josie too, even though she didn't really do anything.

 

That was the first scene of the Pilot movie.  The "new" footage, as far as I can tell, was Pete (back to the camera) casting a line.  He never got there in the original series.

 

Laura and Cooper was deaging tech, makeup, and lighting.  Looked great, IMO.

8 minutes ago, Jay said:

But didn't it seem like only the dirty cop guy could see or hear him?

 

He could - at the beginning of the episode.  He was directly across from Chad.  The guy had fallen asleep against the bars, so Chad thought it was safe to crack out his key.  However, the guy woke up and started making noise, so Chad had to wait.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

24 minutes ago, Romão said:

No

 

I think you're determined to turn those negative feelings you experienced into something positive, which I find curious. Normally, when something negative lingers in our minds, it is because it was simply a bad experience. 

[Jay 37,358]

Anyone else besides me get annoyed when shows that aren't about time travel eventually do time travel plots?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Romão 2,274]

1 minute ago, Quintus said:

 

I think you're determined to turn those negative feelings you experienced into something positive, which I find curious. Normally, when something negative lingers in our minds, it is because it was simply a bad experience. 

 

It's possible to enjoy something much more in the longer run that you did the first time watching, as your expectations are now removed from the viewing experience. That has definitively happened with the last episode. I wrote before that I loved the episode itself, my only reservations with it were because it was the last one. But I probably made it sound like I had a lousy time watching the episode, which couldn't be further from the truth. I found the whole thing mesmerizing. What lingers in my mind are the implications of the episode

[mstrox 6,651]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

Anyone else besides me get annoyed when shows that aren't about time travel eventually do time travel plots?

 

I'd think of it in less concrete terms - not time travel.  Cooper's all-in efforts to save women have destined him to damnation and failure.  It happened to him in the past with Caroline, it got him trapped in the Lodge in the S2 finale with Annie, and Laura's disappearance in Part 17 is indicative of this as well.  This isn't really a spoiler, but something at the very beginning of Part 18 shows that, in LOST language, "What happened, happened."

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

59 minutes ago, Romão said:

 

It's possible to enjoy something much more in the longer run that you did the first time watching, as your expectations are now removed from the viewing experience. That has definitively happened with the last episode. I wrote before that I loved the episode itself, my only reservations with it were because it was the last one. But I probably made it sound like I had a lousy time watching the episode, which couldn't be further from the truth. I found the whole thing mesmerizing. What lingers in my mind are the implications of the episode

 

I reckon it's purely up to Showtime now to decide whether or not those implications are ever expanded on.  

[Romão 2,274]

I would love to see it explored further, although I found this ending unsatisfying in a very satisfying way, if that makes sense

[Quintus 5,399]

So anyway, what was the purpose again of the Asian personality who fell to her knees in The Road House? Oh wait - there was no purpose. 

 

 

"But that's what makes it so delicious! Lynch could shit into a paper cup and it'd be worth my time! I'm so in synch with the artiste!" -- Thor

[Jay 37,358]

"the Asian personality"

 

That's Charlyne Yi!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[mstrox 6,651]

17 minutes ago, Quintus said:

So anyway, what was the purpose again of the Asian personality who fell to her knees in The Road House? Oh wait - there was no purpose. 

 

The same purpose, apparently, as almost every other scene in the Roadhouse.  With three exceptions that I can remember (Richard Horne getting drug money from Chad the Bad, Shelly talking about James in Part 2, and James and Green Man getting into a brawl), every Roadhouse scene seems to be disconnected from the larger narrative (one-time characters, disorienting conversations, strange occurrences).  Much like Audrey's scenes.  There is talk of Billy in both.  Audrey is fascinated with going to the Roadhouse, and awakens when she is there. However you interpret Audrey's arrival in Part 16, I would say that The Roadhouse scenes are intrinsically tied into her delusion/reality/situation.

[Quintus 5,399]

21 minutes ago, Jay said:

"the Asian personality"

 

That's Charlyne Yi!

 

Never heard of the girl. 

 

6 minutes ago, mstrox said:

 

The same purpose, apparently, as almost every other scene in the Roadhouse.  With three exceptions that I can remember (Richard Horne getting drug money from Chad the Bad, Shelly talking about James in Part 2, and James and Green Man getting into a brawl), every Roadhouse scene seems to be disconnected from the larger narrative (one-time characters, disorienting conversations, strange occurrences).  Much like Audrey's scenes.  There is talk of Billy in both.  Audrey is fascinated with going to the Roadhouse, and awakens when she is there. However you interpret Audrey's arrival in Part 16, I would say that The Roadhouse scenes are intrinsically tied into her delusion/reality/situation.

 

They're slice of life vignettes which frame the broader canvas and are therefore unimpeachable! 

[mstrox 6,651]

16 minutes ago, Quintus said:

They're slice of life vignettes which frame the broader canvas

 

I agree with this

 

16 minutes ago, Quintus said:

and are therefore unimpeachable! 

 

I disagree with this.  Most of them didn't do it for me.  There were a few, especially towards the end, which I really liked.  Trent Reznor's chaotic performance at just the right time in the episode.  The one close to the end where they talk about Billy and Tina, and the music creeps in, worked well.  And I really liked the Charlene Yi/screaming one.  The Eddie Vedder song followed by the creepy clearing of the dance floor for Audrey, clarifying more firmly that the Roadhouse was maybe not what it appeared.

 

The ones with people scratching their rashes, etc - didn't really do it for me in the long run. 

 

Most of the songs, as a general thing, are great.  The soundtrack has been spinning in my car nonstop since Friday.  Especially:  Rebekeh Del Rio's "No Stars," The Chromatics' "Shadow," Au Revoir Simone;s "Lark," Trouble's "Snake Eyes," Lissie's "Wild West," The Veils' "Axolotl," Vedder;s "Out of Sand," and Otis Redding's "Loving You Too Long."

 

Could have done without Sharp Dressed Man, though - its placement and use was funny on the show, but it doesn't fit with the sound of the album, and I'm not particularly interested in listening to it.

 

The score album, oddly enough, is more of a mixed bag.  Mainly because 3/4 of it is music I already have (the three earlier soundtracks, one of David Lynch's solo albums, the Twin Peaks Archive, the Windswept album, the Threnody for Hiroshima), presented without any additional mixing, etc done to it.  I miss the presentation of the original TP soundtrack, which played with the tracks, overlayed them into suites, etc to make something really special.  Amazing that Angelo's work on this eighteen hour film was six pieces.

 

[Jay 37,358]

3 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Amazing that Angelo's work on this eighteen hour film was six pieces.

 

Just because he got 6 tracks on the OST doesn't mean that was all he composed for the production though, right?

[Quintus 5,399]

I think we were sorely short-changed by Badalamenti, probably through no fault of his own. 

[mstrox 6,651]

32 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Just because he got 6 tracks on the OST doesn't mean that was all he composed for the production though, right?

 

I don't recall any additional new compositions used in the show.  The album includes tracks from the car accident (in an early part, and the first time I actively noticed new score in the show) through Part 18.  In fact, I BELIEVE that the score album actually includes all of the score used in the show, Badalamenti or no.  Including library cues from TP and FWWM.

 

The soundtrack album is missing at least one song (the second Au Revoir Simone track, which I actually like better than Lark).  But I think that's the only one.

 

Dean Hurley, David Lynch's sound designer/engineer, also released an album which has probably most of the ambient/noise-music from the show.  http://www.factmag.com/2017/08/07/sacred-bones-twin-peaks-sound-design-compilation/

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

32 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Just because he got 6 tracks on the OST doesn't mean that was all he composed for the production though, right?

 

It can't have been much more

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Giving the final episodes another shot has softened me on them, and there may in fact be something good in there, I think an optimistic ending actually.  

 

But that just lets the mind wander to all the other issues, like the dead ends we were taken down throughout the duration of the show.  What a problematic season.  

[Thor 7,503]

1 hour ago, Quintus said:

So anyway, what was the purpose again of the Asian personality who fell to her knees in The Road House? Oh wait - there was no purpose. 

 

I'll quote again from my favourite writer on the new series:

 

Quote

"I'm waiting for someone," says Ruby (Charlyne Yi) to two burly biker dudes in the episode's final scene, which is set, of course, at the Roadhouse. Comedians are their own kind of freak, and it initially appears Lynch and Frost are setting us up for something humorous given Yi's droll career in stand-up, film and TV, and especially once the bikers lift Ruby out of her booth, placing her, hilariously loose-limbed, on the floor. (Perhaps Wally Brando, played by Yi's former collaborator Michael Cera, will ride to the rescue?) No…this isn't that. Onstage, the indie rock band The Veils play a discordant tune, "Axolotl," off their 2016 album Total Depravity. As the song intensifies, Ruby crawls along the Roadhouse floor, looking more and more pathetic as she weaves her way among the patrons' legs. She may be waiting for someone, but they're not coming.

 

....as if she/we are waiting for some kind of resolution, much like other characters in the show, and in Lynch's output in general.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

...deep and profound!

[Thor 7,503]

Not really, but it plays to the viscerality of the show itself. Anguished screams against 'nothingness' is a recurrent feature in Lynch's filmography.

 

I maintain that a purely narrative analysis of TWIN PEAKS (or Lynch in general) only gets you half the way. The rest, and perhaps more importantly, is about metaphysics, symbolism, viscera and philosophy.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

8 minutes ago, Thor said:

Not really, but it plays to the viscerality of the show itself. Anguished screams against 'nothingness' is a recurrent feature in Lynch's filmography.

 

I maintain that a purely narrative analysis of TWIN PEAKS (or Lynch in general) only gets you half the way. The rest, and perhaps more importantly, is about metaphysicality, symbolism, viscera and philosophy.

 

That's where we disagree, that those things are more important.  I believe you need to have a solid narrative foundation, however obscured, on which to hang those musings, otherwise you're left with navel gazing ponderousness.  And I'm still not convinced there is enough of a foundation under this season to justify that. 

[mstrox 6,651]

He could always have composed more and had it gone unused.  But I'm 98% certain that every piece that appeared on the show is on there. 

 

1. Twin Peaks Theme by Angelo Badalamenti - used in full in part 16 when Cooper awakens.  The shortened version used in the new credits is on the other Roadhouse soundtrack.  Original version on TP OST.

 

2.  American Woman (David Lynch Remix) by Muddy Magnolias - used in part 1 - Mr. C's introduction - and then again in part 16 when Diane heads to the Blue Rose hotel room to :-) ALL.  New for this release.

 

3 Laura Palmer's Theme (Love Theme From Twin Peaks) - used when Andy is following up a lead after the car accident, and again when Cooper saves Laura in Part 17.  Originally on TP OST.

 

4 Accident / Farewell Theme by Angelo Badalamenti - the earliest new Badalamenti on the show - used in the car accident scene, and then again in Part 17 I believe, in the Sheriff Station.  New.

 

5 Grady Groove (feat. Grady Tate) - I don't remember where this was used, but it was mid-series.  This was in the Twin Peaks Archive downloads as "Solo Percussion # - can't remember the number.

 

6 Windswept (Reprise) by Johnny Jewel - used when DougieCoop looks at the statue, and when he began writing on the case files.  On Jewel's Windswept soundtrack, which is pretty good.

 

7 Dark Mood Woods / The Red Room by Angelo Badalamenti  - used when Hawk ventures into the woods in an early part (P2 maybe?), and Red Room scenes - especially the little reverb guitar doorbell that splits the tracks.  Originally on the Season 2 soundtrack in a different, longer edit.  Both tracks available unedited in Twin Peaks Archive.

 

8 The Chair by Angelo Badalamenti - the scene where Bobby returns home to get Garland's message, and again when the Log Lady is mourned and the lights go out. New.

 

9 Deer Meadow Shuffle - underscored the Fusco brothers taking down Ike the Spike.  Available in two different versions on Twin Peaks archive.  This MAY have some additional overlays.  I'd have to compare the tracks.

 

10 Threnody For The Victims Of Hiroshima (with Warsaw National Philharmonic Orchestra) by Witold Rowicki - underscored Lynch's nightmarish nuclear explosion in Part 8.  Previously released

 

11 Slow 30's Room by David Lynch & Dean Hurley - underscored The Fireman and the woman in their chairs in Part 8.  From Lynch's "The Air is On Fire" album, which I believe was his score for a museum exhibit

 

12 The Fireman by Angelo Badalamenti - underscored the Fireman floating in part 8 and returning Laura's orb to earth.  New.

 

13 Saturday (Instrumental) by Chromatics - a scene on the Roadhouse stage - from Johnny Jewel's Windswept, again

 

14  Headless Chicken by Thought Gang 2:44 - I can't remember where this occurred - but it was towards the end of the series.  From the unreleased Thought Gang (Lynch/Badalamenti) album recorded in the early 90s.  Other tracks from that session were on the FWWM soundtrack.

 

15 Night by Angelo Badalamenti - I THINK this was in Part 18's last driving scene - but I'm not sure.  New.

 

16 Heartbreaking by Angelo Badalamenti - piano music in the restaurant scene with Dougie and the mobsters.  New.

 

17 Audrey's Dance by Angelo Badalamenti Audrey's dance in Part 16 before she wakes up.  On the TP OST.

 

18 Dark Space Low by Angelo Badalamenti - End credits of part 18.  New.

 

 

I'm a little disappointed that the backwards version of Audrey's theme from Part 16 didn't show up on one of the albums.  I'm sure it can be easily recreated editorially though, unless there's more to it than just "backwards."

[Jay 37,358]

Cool, seems very thorough indeed

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Thor 7,503]

9 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

That's where we disagree, that those things are more important.  I believe you need to have a solid narrative foundation, however obscured, on which to hang those musings, otherwise you're left with navel gazing ponderousness.  And I'm still not convinced there is enough of a foundation under this season to justify that. 

 

Yup, we disagree here. To be honest, I don't think storytelling is really Lynch's main desire -- at least not anymore. His work with art installations and similar fare in recent years has no doubt inspired him to bring some of that into this series. There are other ways to communicate ideas than through stories. All that being said, I thought the balance between the two was masterfully done in this season.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Just now, Thor said:

 

There are other ways to communicate ideas than through stories.

 

Well of course there are, but you need to actually COMMUNICATE them effectively!  An art exhibit can't be directly translated into a television show. 

 

Think about Malick.  He is a director who knows how to create an environment, a space where story doesn't particularly matter, but where it has enough presence to convey all of the other things he's doing.  No one would argue that narrative is the important thing in The Tree of Life, but it is there to aid the things that are, because this is still a storytelling medium.  This is where I feel Lynch has possibly failed.  

[mstrox 6,651]

I think Lynch succeeded in telling a lot of stories - resolved stories - in miniature and in full - in The Return.  The story of Cooper bringing joy and redemption to the people of Las Vegas, including his tulpa Dougie's family, his coworkers, and a motley crew of mobsters and molls.  Stories in miniature that bring a lot of satisfaction, particularly for TP fans:  Hawk and Margaret; Nadine and Dr. Jacoby; Big Ed and Norma; Bobby and his father.  While Wally Brando will remain a WTF scene for me, it works for me to the extent that it informs Andy and Lucy's story - two characters who prove gifted and capable despite their human shortcomings, leading a happy life (Wally and their chair shopping scene).

 

A lot of stories didn't seem to go anywhere, though.  Leaving Audrey's situation unresolved works for me, on an artistic level.  Her character, in the real world, is informed by other people telling.  Doc Hayward, her son, and Richard eventually build the story of what Mr. C did to her and the aftermath, and a lot can be read into the Roadhouse and her disassociation with the evil that had befallen her.  However, things like Shelly/Red, Shelly's daughter, James and the woman at the Roadhouse, Sarah's seeming possession (if read literally and not just as a symbol of her life of abuse and grief) - all of these things dangling without any real form or resolution.  To me, they just seem like "meh, it's somewhere to go if we ever do a season 4"

 

As a whole, I loved The Return.  It got my gears turning, it moved me at times, it frightened me a good bit.   But it's not perfect.  It's unwieldy and it's a shambles at times in a way that almost has to be intentional, because it took them 5 dang years to put it together.  But it is, without a question, a net positive.  Just a really astounding piece of filmmaking.  I felt the same way about Lynch's last, lumpy movie - Inland Empire.

 

https://pitchfork.com/features/article/the-secrets-behind-the-music-of-twin-peaks-the-return/

 

BTW - an article about the music.  Some good Angelo chat in there.  Updated my post above, because apparently The Chair was used again when Hawk mourned the Log Lady.  If anyone can remember where the Grady piece, the Thought Gang piece, and Badalamenti's "Night" were in the series, I'll update it again.

[Jay 37,358]

13 minutes ago, mstrox said:

I think Lynch succeeded in telling a lot of stories - resolved stories - in miniature and in full - in The Return.  The story of Cooper bringing joy and redemption to the people of Las Vegas, including his tulpa Dougie's family, his coworkers, and a motley crew of mobsters and molls.  Stories in miniature that bring a lot of satisfaction, particularly for TP fans:  Hawk and Margaret; Nadine and Dr. Jacoby; Big Ed and Norma; Bobby and his father.  While Wally Brando will remain a WTF scene for me, it works for me to the extent that it informs Andy and Lucy's story - two characters who prove gifted and capable despite their human shortcomings, leading a happy life (Wally and their chair shopping scene).

 

I agree, those were good points.

 

13 minutes ago, mstrox said:

 

A lot of stories didn't seem to go anywhere, though.  Leaving Audrey's situation unresolved works for me, on an artistic level.  Her character, in the real world, is informed by other people telling.  Doc Hayward, her son, and Richard eventually build the story of what Mr. C did to her and the aftermath, and a lot can be read into the Roadhouse and her disassociation with the evil that had befallen her.  However, things like Shelly/Red, Shelly's daughter, James and the woman at the Roadhouse, Sarah's seeming possession (if read literally and not just as a symbol of her life of abuse and grief) - all of these things dangling without any real form or resolution.  To me, they just seem like "meh, it's somewhere to go if we ever do a season 4"

 

And I agree, those are bad points.  Some of them so annoyingly bad, especially when paired with the deliberately slow pace so much of the season had, result in a net negative for me, though.

 

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

It was neat seeing Pete & Catherine Martell on the morning he's supposed to find her body - was that some kind out outtake filmed back in the day, or amazing de-aging tech?

 

 

That would be more like amazing de-dying tech.

[Jay 37,358]

Right, good point.  Anyways, it was already pointed out it was shown in the original pilot episode; I just forgot

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Outtake? Wasn't that reused footage from season 1?

[Jay 37,358]

Yes, that's what I just said.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Your reply posted literally seconds before mine

[Thor 7,503]

1 hour ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

Well of course there are, but you need to actually COMMUNICATE them effectively!  An art exhibit can't be directly translated into a television show. 

 

Well, I certainly think Lynch has raised the bar regarding how much of that you can actually import into a popular television show. Except for segments like Episode 8, it's not as "out there" as, say, INLAND EMPIRE, but it's certainly a masterful hybrid concoction of the two. To just boil down an analysis of THE RETURN to "this happened, and then this happened, and then that storyline was related to that...etc." does not do it justice.

 

That's why I loved Keith Ulich's weekly analyses over on MUBI -- he recounts and contextualizes the story, while at the same time linking images to particular Lynchian traits and other scenes to a more metaphysical interpretation that is less related to the storyline.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

39 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Your reply posted literally seconds before mine

 

Something between 180 and 240 seconds, according to the timestamps.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Incorrect. Must be an MB glitch. I literally got the pop-up seconds before posting

[Romão 2,274]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,358]

That's interesting?

[BloodBoal 7,538]