HZ: bad, or no?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

A Supertramp!

Quite right! You're bloody well right. You've got a bloody right to say!

HZ is a shrewd businessman and has given a short term boost to a lot of talented people. But his impact on the industry is bad overall. He is terribly overrated in the music department because since he views music as a widget/commodity (more so now than in the past) and since he's a businessman, he will excel in this area and inundate the market over others who are less savvy with this. Some of those who are less savvy are superior composers. HZ then becomes more dependent on their talent to continue the mass production of his business model. This ultimately results in a weaker power for the talented musicians/composers and opportunities for them drying up.

My problem with HZ isn't his music - it is how pervasive it is because of his business skills and how this becomes equated with quality. It is now the "sound" of what other talented people are asked to sound like because film makers don't understand the difference between quality and quantity. To me, HZ is the equivalent of people thinking McDonalds is what beef tastes like because it is everywhere. When someone has a real filet steak cooked perfectly, they say - "it's not good because beef tastes like McD". Yes, yes, McD makes billions more than just about anyone else because of their business model.

If you are a highly skilled and trained chef who works in an organic, sustainable environment but the winner of cooking contests is McDonalds...

Awful analogy. No one in their right mind equates a McDonald's patty to a fine steak. You know why they sell billions of burgers and the highly trained chef doesn't? Because the burgers are $1 versus $40 for the steak. The economics of the food industry are entirely different to that of the film industry.

Right. I agree with you. A more accurate analogy is if the McDonalds is sold for $100 as if it were quality steak though it is a $1 phony. People who know the difference know its a fake but most don't know or don't care because it takes less effort.

Forget it. I never understood why some people think RCP is a company or business and that Zimmer is a tycoon. It's a recording studio for fuck's sake.

It may just a recording studio, but it seems to have a reputation for low-quality work, just as, say Abbey Road, for instance, has a reputataion for high-quality work.

[A24 4,333]

Of course Hans can read music! But that doesn't necessarily have to play a role in how he writes these days. I don't think its a skill required in his approach to a score anymore.

You can print it out from your DAW and hire an orchestrator to humanise it.

[Herosix 1]

I don't think we can say if Zimmer is a good or bad composer: his popularity shows that he did good things, but many people assert he did bad works.

At the beginning of his major popularity (90s ?), I recognize he did good works: even though it was easy enough in those days (the Lion King, Gladiator...), the way to mix his music and to transpose at the screen was quite good ! I think he rested on one's laurels and his works remained... easy BUT this is what propeled him at the top. He's a shrewd man (as say Karelm). That's why I don't like him a lot.

Besides, we can find in Hans' works a little bit... pop sonority. Maybe this is why he's so acclaimed by people (who love that).

And why he created RemoteControl, seriously ? To dominate film industries ? This is a thing I still don't understand (but it's my point of view).

Can we find sheet music of film composer on the Net ?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Can we find sheet music of film composer on the Net ?

Check your messages. That would be a good start.

[nightscape94 965]

It's important to make a separation on talent level in order to judge a person on their own, or based on what they're trying to accomplish, not on what they aren't. If you're asking if Zimmer is talented, I think it's clear that he is. I also don't doubt his effectiveness as a film composer either. Honestly, you do not have to be a great composer to be a great film composer. The issue I have is when people honestly try to compare him to John Williams, as though that is a fair equivalent. It's actually not fair to Zimmer. I have enjoyed movies he's scored, I just don't particularly enjoy his music as standalone material.

If Zimmer was just some guy who put out rock albums or musical concept albums, I think people would be less hard on the guy because he wouldn't be compared to greater talent. It's like trying to compare Sam Cooke to Beethoven or something, it doesn't make sense.

Different types of music don't always have to be complex in order to be great. And just because it isn't Bach, that doesn't mean we have to label it a guilty pleasure because it's somehow beneath us. I just don't want to his style of music taking over.

[Herosix 1]

nightscape: There is a sentence that I don't understand in your paragraph: "Honestly, you do not have to be a great composer to be a great film composer." In fact, you mean anyone could be a great film composer even though this person doesn't know how to compose ?

I try to understand but... ^^

[Koray Savas 2,251]

By "composer," I believe he means classical composer, or rather one who is classically trained with an orchestra.

As it has been said countless times before, people want Zimmer to write music that he doesn't want to write.

[King Mark 3,631]

I still don't like his music. Once in a blue moon I'll run into a cue that's worth a few listens (like 1 or 2 in Man of Steel)

I won't even bother with Amazing spiderman 2 unless I hear something fantastic while I watch the film

[Quintus 5,399]

As it has been said countless times before, people want Zimmer to write music that he doesn't want to write.

Interesting beyond five weeks sort of music, you mean?

[nightscape94 965]

nightscape: There is a sentence that I don't understand in your paragraph: "Honestly, you do not have to be a great composer to be a great film composer." In fact, you mean anyone could be a great film composer even though this person doesn't know how to compose ?

I try to understand but... ^^

Film cues have a lot of known factors or givens, such as length, dynamics, and a general idea of tempo shifts. You also have meetings with the director to decide ideas of mood or purpose. You're not starting with a blank slate. Film scores don't technically need to work outside the film, their first responsibility is to support the action on screen. There is a certain skillset required for that job, but you could legitimately be a mediocre composer and still pull off the task of putting together a workable cue that achieves a certain goal. It could be very workman-like without transcending the film.

Then you have people like John Williams who are so good at composition that their scores take the form of greater art outside their initial use within the film.

[Herosix 1]

nightscape: There is a sentence that I don't understand in your paragraph: "Honestly, you do not have to be a great composer to be a great film composer." In fact, you mean anyone could be a great film composer even though this person doesn't know how to compose ?

I try to understand but... ^^

Film cues have a lot of known factors or givens, such as length, dynamics, and a general idea of tempo shifts. You also have meetings with the director to decide ideas of mood or purpose. You're not starting with a blank slate. Film scores don't technically need to work outside the film, their first responsibility is to support the action on screen. There is a certain skillset required for that job, but you could legitimately be a mediocre composer and still pull off the task of putting together a workable cue that achieves a certain goal. It could be very workman-like without transcending the film.

Then you have people like John Williams who are so good at composition that their scores take the form of greater art outside their initial use within the film.

Now I see what you meant.

Your agrument makes sence. However, what if the composer work on the score outside the film's universe ? I think about the group Mogwai who did a rather good work for Les Revenants' score/soundtrack (or The Returned if you know).

[nightscape94 965]

However, what if the composer work on the score outside the film's universe ?

I'm afraid I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

I think about the group Mogwai who did a rather good work for Les Revenants' score/soundtrack (or The Returned if you know).

This is a good example, or someone like Explosions in the Sky doing the Friday Night Lights soundtrack. You can be an instrumental rock band and still write a good film/TV score. You don't always need John Williams. It's a matter of asking, "Did the music accomplish what was intended?"

There's more than one way to skin a cat. Take the recent Amazing Spider-man movies. Horner did the first, Zimmer the second. Two vastly different approaches. Both could be equally effective as scores inside the movie, but both aren't equally effective outside the movie. I felt that Horner's was much more rewarding from a musical standpoint.

[publicist 4,643]

That is if you prefer the 'classical' Hollywood approach. Zimmer has written a score that acknowledges the comic origins of the character more which is fine by me.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Both could be equally effective as scores inside the movie, but both aren't equally effective outside the movie. I felt that Horner's was much more rewarding from a musical standpoint.

For me it's the inverse.

[crocodile 8,012]

I still don't like his music. Once in a blue moon I'll run into a cue that's worth a few listens (like 1 or 2 in Man of Steel)

I won't even bother with Amazing spiderman 2 unless I hear something fantastic while I watch the film

You don't like Zimmer's Spider-Man theme?

http://youtu.be/xn1gptCVpeQ

Karol

[Herosix 1]

However, what if the composer work on the score outside the film's universe ?

I'm afraid I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

I mean: And composers who do their music WITHOUT watch the film in the same time, they can capture the movie's emotion, though. (that's why I quote Mogwai with The Returned: they haven't seen the serie when they did the score)

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

He's pure shit.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I have to listen to this guy's awful repetitive synth percussion, horns and cello ostinatos every time I ride Pirates of the Caribbean at Disneyland. In this particular time and place and for my enjoyment of animatronics auctioning women and giving rum to cats, they are necessary evils.

[Quintus 5,399]

Stop riding it then. Oh hang on - you love to be fucked (in the ears).

Basically, you're a sadist.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Stop riding it then. Oh hang on - you love to be fucked (in the ears).

Basically, you're a sadist.

A sadist?

[Quintus 5,399]

Probably. But to answer your query more precisely I meant masochist, specifically.

Much of a muchness.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I have to listen to this guy's awful repetitive synth percussion, horns and cello ostinatos every time I ride Pirates of the Caribbean at Disneyland. In this particular time and place and for my enjoyment of animatronics auctioning women and giving rum to cats, they are necessary evils.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Probably. But to answer your query more precisely I meant masochist, specifically.

Much of a muchness.

How the hell did you discern my love for BSDM from my hatred for Hans Zimmer?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Why not love both? Missing out.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I still don't like his music. Once in a blue moon I'll run into a cue that's worth a few listens (like 1 or 2 in Man of Steel)

I won't even bother with Amazing spiderman 2 unless I hear something fantastic while I watch the film

You don't like Zimmer's Spider-Man theme?

http://youtu.be/xn1gptCVpeQ

Karol

It sounds hokey and out of place in the film. If this is what "happy jolly", "bullshit heroic" superhero music sounds like to Zimmer, I actually agree that it doesn't fit at all.

Apparently Webb found Horner's theme too sophisticated. Otherwise I can't understand why Zimmer was allowed to take the same approach, but with clearly stupified quality.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

That may be the single worst piece of music composed for a comic book character.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I admit I'm not mad about the theme in that vanilla form above, but I love the variations Zimmer spins through the score.

That said, the suspended/open harmonies and TG-esque gated synths and filtered white noise appeals to me more than whatever the hell Horner was trying to do in the first film. Retro and therefore more contemporary.

[KK 3,307]

That may be the single worst piece of music composed for a comic book character.

[Red 75]

I like some of Zimmer's scores and dislike others.

[Richard Penna 3,687]

That may be the single worst piece of music composed for a comic book character.

[Herosix 1]

That may be the single worst piece of music composed for a comic book character.

Unfortunately, I agree.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

How can you not? Are we listening to the same clip here? Have I become a resident of the Twilight Zone or something? Suddenly, there's no good discussion about John Williams, everyone loves Hans Zimmer, no one is quoting Star Trek and it seems all other discussion is about Lord of the Rings. What has happened here?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

You're a dinosaur from a previous, less tolerant era of JWFan. A relic. Lost in time, and lost in space... and meaning.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

You are... obsolete.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The correct quote is, "The reign of biological lifeforms is coming to an end. You, Picard, and those like you...are obsolete."

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Not a Trekkie, sorry.

[Herosix 1]

The correct quote is, "The reign of biological lifeforms is coming to an end. You, Picard, and those like you...are obsolete."

You are a kind of... robot ?

Cooooooool !

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The correct quote is, "The reign of biological lifeforms is coming to an end. You, Picard, and those like you...are obsolete."

I was quoting The Twilight Zone, not Star Trek.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Ok, we need a You talk and you talk, but you have no The Twilight Zone quotes.