BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Across the Stars is a theme for both Anakin AND Padme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Good thread topic. I think it's because the traditional big sweeping love theme come from a historic period that was much more sexist than we are today. Composers that reach back to this era are just doing what composers did in the 1930s and 40s, and there's some sexism inherent in the approach.The other reason could be that main characters are usually men, and in that sense any costar is only important due to his/her relation to the main character. That's more of a (probably unintentional) sexism on the storymaker's part. Although, that wouldn't explain why (for instance) Short Round gets his own theme but Willie is stuck with the love theme.It's definitely an unfortunate side of more conservative composers, something that I've been struggling to grapple with recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Just curious, Korngold's Deception, is that a Love Theme? or a Main Theme?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6IEH_uaK9MWhat about Eowyn's themes from LOTR? (even though she is not a "main" character) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I've noticed that in 95% of cases, the love theme is also the theme for the female character, while the man is also given his own theme. Indeed, the male character is generally the hero of the story, and so he has his "heroic" theme and the love theme (representing his relation with his loved one) while the female character is only represented by the love theme and nothing more. As if the love she has for the main character is the only thing that defines her as a human being.. I find that to be a clear proof that film composers are true machos that see women as nothing more than persons completely dependent of their male partner and that wouldn't exist if it wasn't for them. Oh please! This is a result of the screenwriter who wrote the film, not the film composer who is writing the score! He can only score what's on the screen! In a lot of these films, the love interest IS really only defined by her association with the main character. Not the composer's fault! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Score the love scenes with action music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Oh please! This is a result of the screenwriter who wrote the film, not the film composer who is writing the score! He can only score what's on the screen! In a lot of these films, the love interest IS really only defined by her association with the main character. Not the composer's fault! But the composers could try to fix that, yet they don't! How could they fix it? All a film composer do is help the audience feel an emotion during a scene. If the character doesn't have any scenes written for her that have something to do with something besides the hero, what emotions do you want the composer to make you feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 You are looking at it wrong:Come on! To take indy4's example, Willie has quite a few scenes that aren't love scenes. She would have deserved her own theme!She does have her own theme, otherwise Williams would have used the love theme from Raiders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 What scenes specifically in Temple of Doom with Willie have nothing to do with Indy, and would function better with a unique theme playing than non-thematic underscore or the love theme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Traditionalists have decried the rise of ambient film scoring, but what they're really railing against is its progressive spirit, its vision of a world free of the patriarchal scaffolding that has shaped the arts for so long. In discarding themes as an organizing communicative idea, modern film composers are urgently working to dismantle a status quo that idolizes the heroism of men at the expense of the personhood of women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 We composers are just more manly than most. We recognize that the natural order is in fact for men to be at the center of attention, with women only in the periphery as accessories to certain emotional and physical needs, and we are not subject to the modern feeling that it is right and proper to submit to feminism and pushes for equality. And we're always endowed well above average. Now if you'll excuse me I need to go shine my wife's boots. Ludwig and Sharkissimo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,286 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 It's an interesting observation. There's definitely a clear and somewhat exclusive association between female characters and love themes, although I'm with Jason that it's really just an indication of how those characters are incorporated in the films themselves, rather than a reflection of the composers' attitudes towards women.But at the same time, how common are character themes, anyway? I sort of feel like with most films, there's just an all-purpose "main theme" that is more or less tied to the main character (usually male) simply because they're carrying the story, and any other themes are less about specific characters and are really there to illustrate the "themes" or ideas in the story e.g. love and romance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Max Steiner once proclaimed: "Every character should have a theme." Despite the obsolete sound of this phrase, character themes are still the most common tactic when themes are used in any recurring way in current films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 It's an interesting observation. There's definitely a clear and somewhat exclusive association between female characters and love themes, although I'm with Jason that it's really just an indication of how those characters are incorporated in the films themselves, rather than a reflection of the composers' attitudes towards women.Even for Trevor Rabin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Gender neutral film scoring. The next logical step in this mad, mad, mad, mad world. There is no denying that the tender themes or lyrical themes are most often associated with female characters (we men are such inconsiderate egotistic, brutish clods!) and then those ideas double as love themes in many movies. But there are countless spins on this. Love theme is the main theme and the characters have their own themes, female character has a theme, the male character has a theme and then there is their separate love theme etc.So I am so glad we have the emancipated Tauriel's theme and the girlish Kili theme in The Desolation of Smaug (see how suavely I brought The Hobbit into this thread). It is the flame that starts the rebellion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 "No one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wine will burst the skins, and the wine is lost and the skins as well; but one puts new wine into fresh wineskins." (Mark 2:22) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 And you can't make an omelette without breaking a few heads!"No one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wine will burst the skins, and the wine is lost and the skins as well; but one puts new wine into fresh wineskins." (Mark 2:22)I refuse to believe KingMark said anything of the sort and more so in that hour of the early morn! Or perhaps he was going all philosophical when the wine ran out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,523 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 What scenes specifically in Temple of Doom with Willie have nothing to do with Indy, and would function better with a unique theme playing than non-thematic underscore or the love theme?Perhaps the deleted scene where Willie runs back to Pankot Palace and bumps into Chatta Lal?Spare a thought for poor ole Sigourney Weaver. She starred in four films, scored by four different composers, with nary a hint af a "Ripley" theme among them. Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I wanted a love theme for the xenomorph magically appearing in Ripley between 2 & 3. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Oh. Well you know I don't know what I meant. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Isn't the Trumpet theme from Alien considered Ripley's Theme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 That's the Nostromo's Theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Oh I love it when people talk about Alien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I don't think Cutthroat Island employs a main theme to its female lead either. I know there is a love theme, but no primary theme for her if I remember correctly. I haven't listened to the score in a long time and don't recall the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 What about Pirates Of The Caribbean? There's Jack's theme and Davy Jones' theme, but WIll and Elizabeth are only represented by the love theme. Or would one classify the main theme as Will's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Are you saying something against effeminate men? You're an old fashioned patriarch, and you disgust me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yes, it would also help if you start co-posting with an effeminate man, to show the sincerity of your apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 And it better be genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 These backward, misogynistic composers! Julia Gillard would have a field day with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Anyone who writes music with a pencil is a sexist. Not everything needs to be created with a phallic symbol. Brónach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 "The who, the why, the what, the when, the where?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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