Joe Brausam

Star Wars "Rebels" - Kevin Kiner Returns!

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Spoiler

 

I'm not the biggest fan of the book trilogy, but that was mainly due to its use of the existing characters.  Thrawn, Mara, and to a point Talon Karrde were all worthy additions to Star Wars, and I'm glad that Thrawn is getting a second life.

 

Why are these spoilers when the character is all over the official promos?

 

(i.e. he's in the trailer, on the official season 3 poster, and they also announced a new book)

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3 hours ago, crocodile said:

Oh he's a cool character. Really likable villain. But his re-introduction confuses the hell out of me.

 

Karol

 

 

What is confusing about it?

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Because for the most part, Disney chose to make all the EU that came out pre-2015 as "Legends" and have started their own new line of EU, but are now deciding to bring this one character back - and not only in new EU, but in their canon TV show as well.

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They have said they would probably bring things from the old EU from the beginning though. .

And this not the only thing they have brought back so far.

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It's no different from main characters of the saga. They all had stories and books writen about them, set after ROTJ, that will for the most part, cease to be canon

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The character is cool, and it's a waste not to use him, so he is now appearing onscreen and in canon literature.  An actually interesting Imperial commander with unique interests and stratagem.

 

But the events of the Heir to the Empire trilogy are still not canon (not that it would affect Rebels, since that takes place years before HTTE would have taken place anyway).   So the reappearance does not legitimize Joruuuuus, Luuuuuuuuke, Mara, Talon, the lost fleet of ships, Jacen, Jaina, a Rebel occupation of Coruscant, Thrawn's clone army, ysalamiri, Noghri, Borsk, Pellaon, or Lando's dumb mining adventures.  The character's ultimate fate, likewise, may not mirror what happened in those books (he could die on Rebels before the events of Star Wars, or he could live on well into the sequel trilogy era, or get crushed by a moon at some point TBD in the future).

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There were some who speculated that a character at the end of Aftermath was a hint at Thrawn.

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I always liked Wendig's SW work, but I think across the board reviews have been more positive for Life Debt (people who were Luuukewarm on "Aftermath" liked "Life Debt" more).  I'm not counting the numerous one-star reviews from "Bring Back Legends" fanatics - those are still there for this one - but actual real reviews of the book.

 

It's definitely written in the same style as Aftermath.  Still present tense.  Not sure if Wendig "improved" or if the style is less jarring because people are more familiar with it the second time around.  There was certainly plenty of time for editorial course correction if they took the (real) criticisms of the first book constructively.

 

Personally I have a bigger problem with the first person narrative of the recent Luke book, as opposed to Wendig's business.

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27 minutes ago, Jay said:

Because for the most part, Disney chose to make all the EU that came out pre-2015 as "Legends" and have started their own new line of EU, but are now deciding to bring this one character back - and not only in new EU, but in their canon TV show as well.

From day one of the new canon they've been cherry picking old EU elements and characters and adding them. Thrawn is just the most high profile but it was only a matter of time before he was added. 

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My dream would be for them to bring back Mara Jade, except there's a lot more baggage with her than with the returning character (who was basically three-and-done).

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8 minutes ago, mstrox said:

(who was basically three-and-done).

Yeah, Outbound Flight was a prequel, and the Thrawn in the Hand of Thrawn Duology (which I preferred to the Trilogy) was a imposter and a clone.

 

And he is hinted at in Tatooine Ghost

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THe problem with the old EU is for the most part it was adventures our trio got up to shortly after ROTJ.  With the new films now focusing on life 30 years + later, all those characters would be 30+ years old as well, which doesn't work for a lot of them.

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2 minutes ago, Jay said:

THe problem with the old EU is for the most part it was adventures our trio got up to shortly after ROTJ.  With the new films now focusing on life 30 years + later, all those characters would be 30+ years old as well, which doesn't work for a lot of them.

The EU books went 30-40 years post RotJ too though. And there were quite a number of them. Vector Prime takes place more than 20 years after RotJ and that was a 19 book series followed by two 9 book series.

 

 

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I believe in the old EU, The Truce at Bakura began the day after ROTJ. EU stories were written to at least 100 years after ROTJ, to the point Luke Skywalker had a generation or two of descendants. I don't think his ultimate fate was ever written though. 

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3 hours ago, Fennel Ka said:

They have said they would probably bring things from the old EU from the beginning though. .

And this not the only thing they have brought back so far.

Yeah but they also bring back Timothy Zahn to write a book about him. But does it connect to other books? How does that work?

 

Karil

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The book will be a standalone prequel to the character's appearance on Rebels.  It has no connection to Zahn's earlier books, except that they share a character.

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7 hours ago, crocodile said:

Oh he's a cool character. Really likable villain. But his re-introduction confuses the hell out of me.

I like likeable villains. Darth Vader is likeable, right?

 

 

Random guy on the Internet: "He was, until the prequels!" :lol:

 

 

5 hours ago, mstrox said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Why are these spoilers when the character is all over the official promos?

Maybe people are deliberately avoiding even those "spoilers"?

I figured, better safe than sorry.... :o

 

50 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Yeah but they also bring back Timothy Zahn to write a book about him. But does it connect to other books? How does that work?

Probably similarly to "Tarkin" novel by James Luceno?

Technically part of the new canon, but refers to all sorts of EU stuff anyway. ;)

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1 hour ago, crocodile said:

Yeah but they also bring back Timothy Zahn to write a book about him. But does it connect to other books? How does that work?

 

Karil

 

This:

53 minutes ago, mstrox said:

The book will be a standalone prequel to the character's appearance on Rebels.  It has no connection to Zahn's earlier books, except that they share a character.

 

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Nice... if they keep using old EU stuff it will make the "legends" banner make sense. As if the legends novels were writen about hundreds of years after the events... and most of them are not true and just invented novelizations with some historical truth (like modern roman or middle age novels). Or stories that have been told orally and over time they have been changed, like old lore.

 

But if they are using the name "Thrawn" they could well have called Kylo, Jacen... Now there is no Solo caled jacen so where in the hell do his legends come from.... At least he looks like him...

 

 

Mara Jade could really appear in rebels, There is no need to make her Luke's wife, she could be the new inquisitor like villain.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Nice... if they keep using old EU stuff it will make the "legends" banner make sense. As if the legends novels were writen about hundreds of years after the events... and most of them are not true and just invented novelizations with some historical truth (like modern roman or middle age novels). Or stories that have been told orally and over time they have been changed, like old lore.

 

But if they are using the name "Thrawn" they could well have called Kylo, Jacen... Now there is no Solo caled jacen so where in the hell do his legends come from.... At least he looks like him...

 

 

Mara Jade could really appear in rebels, There is no need to make her Luke's wife, she could be the new inquisitor like villain.

 

 

 

I think Dave said during the panel that Mara won't be happening. 

 

George hated her so I could see everything else getting brought back in except her. 

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George doesn't run Lucasfilm any more.

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3 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Nice... if they keep using old EU stuff it will make the "legends" banner make sense. As if the legends novels were writen about hundreds of years after the events... and most of them are not true and just invented novelizations with some historical truth (like modern roman or middle age novels). Or stories that have been told orally and over time they have been changed, like old lore.

I agree; that would truly make the "Legends" an interesting and still somewhat integral part of the whole Star Wars world.

It could be especially fun if they even make reference to stuff that is NOT true in the new canon.

For example, add in an explanation for where that "Jacen Solo" name came from or that somebody thought that was his name, but is corrected for being wrong.

 

I always figured they should have something similar in the PotC films with the captain of the Flying Dutchman.

It makes no sense for that to be a Scottish guy named Davy Jones, while the historical character was named Hendrick Vanderdecken.

 

Blurring the line between "fact" and fantasy could be quite an interesting source of story content.

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But it's still a bit fishy to me. I'd rather them create new characters rather than canibalise stuff like this and subsequently confuse a lot of people.Say, some lay person might like a Thrawn character from the Rebels show and would like to learn more about him. And they pick the Thrawn trilogy from Timothy Zahn and it's all a mess cause it turns out Leia is pregnant with twins in those books, there's no First Order. But Thrawn character almost feels exactly the same (which he does from those clips). And then they pick a new Timothy Zahn book about the same character that has no connection to his other books. No matter how you justify it, it's a mess. Fanboys might understand it but an average person won't.

 

Karol

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True. Though I did notice new editions in the "Legends" series do contain an explanatory note on their "canonical status".

And don't they put a huge "Legends" logo on the covers these days? But still.... definitely not straightforward.

On the other hand, I understand why they did it and I reckon that it is probably the best choice they had available to them, despite the unfortunate consequences.

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It would be the same as a new fan wanting to learn more about Luke and picking up some book where he has a kid with Mara Jade.

 

There is definitely an explanation of "Legends" in the Legends books - at least in the eBooks, since I've been buying through them.

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3 minutes ago, mstrox said:

It would be the same as a new fan wanting to learn more about Luke and picking up some book where he has a kid with Mara Jade.

No it's more like having now an Alien 3 that doesn't acknowledge... oh wait...

 

Karol

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3 hours ago, Jay said:

George doesn't run Lucasfilm any more.

 

But they're still sticking to his word. Filoni mentioned how he and George worked out how to bring Thrawn into the canon. Stuff like the Ysalamiri were abandoned because George said they wouldn't work in the universe. I'm certain that if he didn't want Mara Jade then they'd leave him out and Filoni said fans shouldn't expect to see her. 

 

Loads of what's happening in SW at the moment is because of George. 

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Soundtracks for Season 1 and Season 2 will be released later this month.

 

Season 1 will be released on September 16 and will have 28 tracks, while Season 2 will be released on September 30 and will have 33 tracks.

 

I hate that they didn't release soundtracks for individual seasons of The Clone Wars. I'm doing a rewatch of the series now, and I have a greater appreciation for some of Kiner's work, especially in the later seasons. (The officially released soundtrack contains several tracks from Season 1 of the show, which aren't as good as those from later seasons. I feel like the tracks released on Kiner's website do a better job at representing the series, but there are still a ton of great cues unreleased.)

 

The score for Rebels Season 1 annoyed me with its heavy (and unnecessary) use of Williams' themes and melodies, but there were some standouts in my opinion, like the Season 1 finale. I hope those cues make it onto the soundtrack. Season 2 was better overall, with several standouts throughout the season culminating in that amazing finale, which is hands down the best scoring I have ever heard from Kiner. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they include those cues on the soundtrack.

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Interestingly Season 2's episode "Wings of the Master" contains the track "Hera Soars", which is clearly based on Horner's "Rocketeer" (especially starting at 0:56):

 

 

This episode aired only a few months after Horner's death, so maybe it was meant to be an hommage to him.

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