Indiana Jones Goes to Hell: 30 Years of Defending Temple of Doom

[Ricard 2,245]

Much like the mine cars our heroes use to escape the hidden temple, the legacy of the film is filled with roller coaster-like ups and downs. A controversial tone for the time gave way to contrived outrage and the inevitable comparison to its predecessor.....but is it a balanced view?

Full article

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's my favorite one.

As for the criticism that it's too dark, violent, offensive, zany, and/or silly (funny how it can be all of those things)...at least they did something different. I consider it a sequel very much in the style of The Empire Strikes Back or The Wrath of Khan. By that, I mean, taken in a radically different direction and frequently nothing you would have ever seen coming after the first movie. Inevitably, I feel this pays off and we're left with extremely entertaining, unique and now-vintage Spielberg from a more youthful, scandalous Steven in the time before he had kids and his balls retracted.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

It's a huge improvement over RAIDERS IMO, though not as good as CRUSADE. The racist undertones are still problematic, though.

[Jay 37,346]

It's my favorite one too. One of those movies where I wouldn't want to change anything about it whatsoever

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I like that they sort of ignored continuity with Raiders. You could say they didn't, since it's technically set prior to Raiders. However, there's a quality to it similar to a Bond sequel, with a new girl, supporting cast, overall tone and Indy himself being a slightly different character, at least to some degree. Almost like going from Connery to Moore, only it's the same actor.

[Hlao-roo 389]

The racist undertones are still problematic, though.

Why?

[A24 4,331]

It's the drag queen version of Raiders!

[Quintus 5,399]

As ace and eminently watchable as ToD is it's still not a patch on Raiders, which is a near perfect adventure movie and marvel of craft.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

The racist undertones are still problematic, though.

Why?

Why not, Alan?

[nightscape94 965]

Raiders is the best, but Temple of Doom offers something completely different. Especially being a child of the 80s, it was a jarring transition. Both great movies. Crusade was a step down in my opinion, but still a damn good time.

[Datameister 2,041]

The supposed darkness of the film has never bothered me one bit. I just get exasperated with all the annoying attempts at making the film funny.

That said, it features a score that gives Raiders a run for its money, as well as an action sequence (the mine car chase) that may be my favorite from the entire series. And it's certainly grown on me over time.

[Romão 2,274]

In terms of Cinematography, it sill is one my favorite movies of all time

[Uni 306]

As ace and eminently watchable as ToD is it's still not a patch on Raiders, which is a near perfect adventure movie and marvel of craft.

This.

Raiders is a masterpiece of the serial adventure genre, perhaps never done as well by anyone before or since. TOD is a great sequel, a rollicking time at the movies 'n' all, but it isn't the cinematic experience that Raiders was.

- Uni

[Quintus 5,399]

The supposed darkness of the film has never bothered me one bit.

Yeah. The heart rip out moment was obviously a legitimate factor in the "darkness" observations, or even complaints, but the whole Lucas "I was going through a divorce" bulshit I don't buy. The movie was never sinister or anything like that.

[Faleel 5,345]

I find the finale from Raiders "scarier" than anything in TOD.

[Ludwig 1,120]

The atmosphere surrounding 'Temple', at the time, was a fine pre-internet example of what we see every day on-line, fake outrage. Literally reaching for reasons to constantly claim we are offended has been taken to almost an art form (no offense to art) and has developed into the modern equivalent of a mob calling for someone's head.

As commentary on today's faux hypersensitive culture, he's bang on.

[Uni 306]

The atmosphere surrounding 'Temple', at the time, was a fine pre-internet example of what we see every day on-line, fake outrage. Literally reaching for reasons to constantly claim we are offended has been taken to almost an art form (no offense to art) and has developed into the modern equivalent of a mob calling for someone's head.

As commentary on today's faux hypersensitive culture, he's bang on.

Absolutely. And I think he also hits the mark in how he deals with the issue of the supposed "racist undertones" (which I never picked up on anyway).

The supposed darkness of the film has never bothered me one bit.

Yeah. The heart rip out moment was obviously a legitimate factor in the "darkness" observations, or even complaints, but the whole Lucas "I was going through a divorce" bulshit I don't buy.

Makes you wonder what kind of vicious mood swings he must've been experiencing when he made the Prequels. . . .

[Quintus 5,399]

I find the finale from Raiders "scarier" than anything in TOD.

In some ways it's even darker than events in ToD since Raiders is a decidedly more serious adventure which doesn't have anywhere near the level of comedy context the sequel embellished its own violence in.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I actually think RAIDERS is significantly darker, or at least more gratuitous than DOOM. You've got the bloody gunshot in the bar fight, Nazi made mincemeat out of the propeller blade and of course the schlocky face-melting with the reveal of the Ark.

Somehow the kebab impaling and heart-ripping never feels as 'edgy.'

[Quintus 5,399]

Makes you wonder what kind of vicious mood swings he must've been experiencing when he made the Prequels. . . .

Maybe he was going through a hushed up serial rapist trial at the time of AotC.

[Hlao-roo 389]

The racist undertones are still problematic, though.

Why?

Why not, Alan?

What are the racist undertones you perceive in the film?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Absolutely. And I think he also hits the mark in how he deals with the issue of the supposed "racist undertones" (which I never picked up on anyway).

How so? He does a pretty half-arsed job at it.

- None of the filmmakers are racist, as evidenced by their personal lives. That's neither here or there.

- It's not a documentary. No shit Sherlock. I don't believe DW Griffith's BIRTH OF A NATION was, either.

- It's pastiching a 30s serial, which supposedly makes the film's tacit racism 'acceptable', in some post-modern/ironic sense.

The racist undertones are still problematic, though.

Why?

Why not, Alan?

What are the racist undertones you perceive in the film?

Mainly, the portrayal of the Otherness of Indian cults as bloodthirsty and satanic.

[Uni 306]

What are the racist undertones you perceive in the film?

Mainly, the portrayal of the Otherness of Indian cults as bloodthirsty and satanic.

That may be religious misrepresentation, but it isn't racism.

[nightscape94 965]

The Indiana Jones films have always been about having a relatively broad enemy, as is the nature of, and tribute to, the pulp aspect of the material. I never perceived the cult in TOD to be a representation of the culture.

[Incanus 5,714]

Happy 30th birthday Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom!

ToD is a highly enjoyable pure unadulturated fun rollercoaster ride of a film that even the dark undertones can't really dampen. I think it was also the one Indy film where Lucas and Spielberg poured their overflow of gags and setpieces from the Raiders. I really like the Saturday matinee serial feel of Indy films where the main character is the constant but is always thrust into all kinds of fantastical situations and adventures that can be just about anything with a suitable McGuffin behind it. And this certainly goes for Temple of Doom, such a departure from the general feel of Raiders but still firmly Indiana Jones thanks to Ford's iconic portrayal. I like that it doesn't try to be too much like its predecessor in ticking all the boxes of what Indy should be like based on Raiders but goes off to a whole new direction. The Last Crusade at times is more guilty of nostalgic references but is still top notch adventure yarn while KotCS is so preoccupied with call backs it forgets to develop a good engaging plot of its own.

And Temple of Doom sports the most zanily energetic, inventive, colorful and darn entertaining rollercoaster of a score in the entire series.

A toast to ToD!

Anything Goes

The Indiana Jones films have always been about having a relatively broad enemy, as is the nature and tribute to the pulp aspect of the material. I never perceived the cult in TOD to be a representation of the culture.

Indeed. I think the whole genre thrives on these heavily coloured cultural portrayals that are certainly not meant to be any kind of representation of how the film makers themselves view these cultures but as part of the whole genre feel of Indiana Jones, which is not meant to be taken all that seriously. Although I seem to remember Russians grumbling a bit about the portrayal of the villains in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull when the film came out.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The film needs no defending in my humble opinion. It's a fantastic adventure film that doesnt let up.

[Quintus 5,399]

It needs defending from Steven Spielberg who has done nothing but slag it off and be dismissive of it ever since making it.

[publicist 4,643]

The spectacle of it beats RAIDERS flat-out even if RAIDERS is a better overall movie. Even my grandfather who never watches films like this saw the last 40 minutes and said something like 'whoever made this is damn good at what he does'.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I think TOD is clearly a darker flick. I mean, it has a guy getting his heart ripped out and lowered into a hot pit to burn, children being enslaved and beaten and the scene where they make Indy drink the blood out of a skull after they whip him and Short Round. There's also various disturbing imagery like the severed fingers or whatever the fuck that is on the statue in the jungle, what appears to be the skeletons of children lining the sacrificial chamber, starving people, a guy being impaled with a flaming shish kabob, the hero punching a woman and a child, etc.

[Brónach 1,302]

I always felt that the character most have in their minds as being Indiana Jones was the Indiana Jones of this film.

[Uni 306]

And Temple of Doom sports the most zanily energetic, inventive, colorful and darn entertaining rollercoaster of a score in the entire series.

The score! How could we neglect to mention the score here?

TOD as a movie may be a half-step down from Raiders, but its score is the best of the series—and expansion on the foundation of the first film, with the broadest palette of themes and widest range of colors, peppered with wonderful moments of expression. Two of my favorites:

- Just after Indy looks left and right to see both airplane engines failing, he turns back to the panorama outside the window . . . and the orchestra bursts out with what may be the most musically grand "Oh shit!" moment of all time.

- And, of course, the beautiful throwback moment to Raiders when Indy faces the two swordsman, reaches for his gun . . . and has another fine "Oh shit!" moment.

Great stuff, and a classic score.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

What are the racist undertones you perceive in the film?

Mainly, the portrayal of the Otherness of Indian cults as bloodthirsty and satanic.

That may be religious misrepresentation, but it isn't racism.

That's splitting hairs. It's basically cultural imperialism. Other than the villagers, which are portrayed as nothing but helpless victims, our only other Indian landmark is Pankrot Palace/Temple of Doom and its corrupt denizens.

[Quintus 5,399]

The score is smashing of course, but unfortunately for it it does not contain the all-conquering Ark/Medallion theme.

And I prefer The Last Crusade score over Temple of Doom's, anyway.

[publicist 4,643]

Never!!!!

[Quintus 5,399]

Belly of the Steel Beast is an all time favourite action cue of mine, pub, among others

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree with Lee!

[Quintus 5,399]

Since when? I thought with you it was Temple of Doom or death!

[Uni 306]

What are the racist undertones you perceive in the film?

Mainly, the portrayal of the Otherness of Indian cults as bloodthirsty and satanic.

That may be religious misrepresentation, but it isn't racism.

That's splitting hairs. It's basically cultural imperialism. Other than the villagers, which are portrayed as nothing but helpless victims, our only other Indian landmark is Pankrot Palace/Temple of Doom and its corrupt denizens.

It's comic-book cinema. If the villagers weren't helpless, and the denizens of Pankot weren't corrupt, there would be no need for a hero, and therefore no story. Stories require a central need, and they require conflict (and therefore an antagonist). To take the movie as a serious effort to degrade the people of India as a whole is like saying The Three Stooges were attempting to glorify domestic abuse.

Or perhaps a closer parallel would be to organize a protest against movies like Smokey and the Bandit because of their horrible disrespect for police officers in portraying them as utter buffoons. Of you could just as easily claim that any film that features a male hero rescuing a woman (like, say, Temple of Doom) is inherently misogynist because it portrays a woman as "helpless." Could you make a case for this stuff? I suppose so. Why the hell would you want to. . . ?

[Faleel 5,345]

TLC's score is too indecisive for me.

[Uni 306]

Interesting. I've never heard a score described as "indecisive." What exactly does that mean?

[Faleel 5,345]

Too many inserts, dropped/replaced themes, etc.

[publicist 4,643]

LC is a great score, though it is Williams already being comfortably numb in his more staid old-age mode...all later stuff like HP or the prequels draw from this score's scherzo style. TOD on the other hand is wild stuff. It lacks the heart but as full-blown adventure scores go, it's hard to beat. Also the India setting sported unusual thematic ideas that don't have sported as many facsimiles.

[Datameister 2,041]

I actually think RAIDERS is significantly darker, or at least more gratuitous than DOOM. You've got the bloody gunshot in the bar fight, Nazi made mincemeat out of the propeller blade and of course the schlocky face-melting with the reveal of the Ark.

Somehow the kebab impaling and heart-ripping never feels as 'edgy.'

Agreed. And don't forget the two impaled corpses (Forrestal and Satipo) in the intro, as well as the Egyptian mummy chamber with groping skeletal hands and snakes oozing out of mouths...rather grisly stuff.

I always felt that the character most have in their minds as being Indiana Jones was the Indiana Jones of this film.

God help them. It's Ford's least successful portrayal of the character, IMO. Raiders delivers the definitive Indy.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

TOD on the other hand is wild stuff. It lacks the heart but as full-blown adventure scores go, it's hard to beat. Also the India setting sported unusual thematic ideas that don't have sported as many facsimiles.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

To take the movie as a serious effort to degrade the people of India as a whole is like saying The Three Stooges were attempting to glorify domestic abuse.

You misunderstand me. All I'm saying is THE TEMPLE OF DOOM (most likely unintentionally-- I don't believe Spielberg or Lucas are prejudiced folks) carried over a cultural ignorance from the Saturday Matinee pictures it was sending up, which is left unchallenged. From THE COLOUR PURPLE onwards Spielberg gained a newfound sensitivity and put his childish ways behind him, resulting in THE LAST CRUSADE being a far richer film than the first two.

[Uni 306]

To take the movie as a serious effort to degrade the people of India as a whole is like saying The Three Stooges were attempting to glorify domestic abuse.

You misunderstand me. All I'm saying is THE TEMPLE OF DOOM (most likely unintentionally-- I don't believe Spielberg or Lucas are prejudiced folks) carried over a cultural ignorance from the Saturday Matinee pictures it was sending up, which is left unchallenged. From THE COLOUR PURPLE onwards Spielberg gained a newfound sensitivity and put his childish ways behind him, resulting in THE LAST CRUSADE being a far richer film than the first two.

Agreed (except for the bit about TLC being "richer"—I'd probably take a contrary view on that one ). But that's why I don't consider it bothersome: the unintentional nature of the offense renders it inoffensive, at least in my mind.

Makes for an interesting debate, though.

[Sweeping Strings 2,352]

Raiders remains my favourite, my sentiments would echo what guest2 said on the previous page. Doom and Crusade are pretty damn fine too, though.

I prefer to pretend that Crystal Skull never happened. Clunk, clunk, clunk ...

[Quintus 5,399]

Crystal Skull is the equivalent of The Matrix sequels.

What Matrix sequels?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I find Temple of Doom superior to either follow up.

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6473&hl=%2Breasons+%2Bcrusade

I might be a bit harsh in the 21 points, but damnit if the passing of the hat is almost duplicated again.

surprisingly as weak as KOTCS is John's score works better for me than Least Crusade still.

I do like them all, Love Raiders, Love TOD, the last two are not loved, but moments are.