True Detective

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Koray Savas 2,251]

He was a douchebag? All he said was that he's an alcoholic.

[Wojo 2,453]

“Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. Goddamn it Otto, you are an alcoholic. Goddamn it Otto, you have Lupis ... one of those two doesn't sound right.”

[Quintus 5,399]

Alcoholism is a disease my arse. People need to take responsibility for their vices.

[Wojo 2,453]

Well I was quoting Mitch Hedberg, who permitted his many vices to kill him.

[Quintus 5,399]

Yeah mate it's okay I noticed it was just a quote.

[KK 3,307]

I finished the season last night. In the end, I consider it a valiant effort, one that falls short of the first season's greatness, but remains very strong television. As many have mentioned here, the central problem here is that we're following too many characters, and the case tying them together is not strong enough to avoid convolution of plot. And it doesn't help that Pizzolatto's prose can come off as a bit farcical in its misplaced nature. I didn't have a problem with most of the dialogue, but sometimes the characters were just spewing out stuff no one would ever say in reality, and there wasn't Woody Harrelson's levity to help balance that out.

Despite that and the pacing issues, the show still remained quite gripping, up till the very end. Colin Farrell was a show-stealer with his fantastic performance, alongside the excellent Rachel McAdams. Heck even Vaughan got past the initial awkwardness and really settled into his role. His final scenes were quite poignant. I couldn't help but root for the guy. Taylor Kitsch eventually got on my nerves though as I found all the angst in his character to be a bit monochromatic.

I know people have a problem with the finale, but I liked it. It felt appropriate, with this being a story of tragedy, not one of victory like the past season. I just wished the whole season made more use of the otherworldly and supernatural that it teased in scenes (ex. the Twin Peaks opening, Vaughn's death scene, etc). The visual style continued to be interesting but lacked Fukunaga's distinctly gripping mark, or maybe it's just the lack of consistency that was the problem.

Ultimately a flawed but solid season, which would probably benefit more from a binge-watching spree than a week-to-week basis. It's a real shame that this season will be considered a "universal failure" in the eyes of the public though. Just a quick google search can give you an idea of the bad rep it's gotten, but this is still quality television here and worth checking out. It just happened to suffer from some of the casualties of intentionally avoiding what they did in season 1, which I consider admirable.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Well said.

[KK 3,307]

I feel like once the first episode didn't live up to the last season's quality and hype, everyone just bandwagoned on condemning it. If the first season didn't exist, I'm sure this season wouldn't be getting so much flack.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Oh I'm sure. I can't deny the season's flaws. But the general consensus seems to be that this was a downright terrible season, which I think is far from the truth. But sadly that's how it'll be remembered for the years to come.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Koray Savas 2,251]

McConaughey had a cameo?

The Lera Lynn songs are a huge plus. I didn't realize they were all written for the show until after I watched the season. I've been listening to the newly released soundtrack a lot. Great soundscape, but I would also love some of T-Bone's score released too. For me, the only really big issue was how crowded the season was. Cut out Kitsch's character, remove some of the side-plots and you'd have a tight and gripping 8 episodes, like Season 1.

[Jay 37,287]

Hook, line, and sinker!

[Glóin the Dark 1,218]

...McConaughey's cameo.

Ah! I knew I recognised Stan from somewhere!

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Just did season one, episode one. Start asking the right fucking questions.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I rewatched season one last week. These are my feelings on the True Detective saga thus far, without having revisited the second season yet.

Season one (hereafter known as "The Case of the Yellow King") is probably inarguably the better-made one, by virtue of a more streamlined plot and a single director. But ye gods, it is heavy. Really fucking heavy. The nature of the crimes, the incredible pit of bleakness that is the (pre-near-death-experience) mind of Rust Cohle, and the setting - a suffocating, festering, desolate take on the Deep South... all of this makes for something that is definitely not light viewing. Despite having revisited it like four or five times now, I think I can go a while before I need to again. It's a psychological ordeal.

And you know what, a lot of people said it was a "happy ending" compared to season two (hereafter known as "The Strange Demise of Ben Caspere") but I don't think it's so clear-cut. Rust and Marty get their guy, but the "sprawl" remains, the connection to the Tuttles gets covered up... there's a lot that slips back into the shadows. The second time around, most of the main characters bite it and nothing gets immediately solved, but the potential is there for a complete exposure of what happened, and I think we can assume that came to fruition. So "The Case of the Yellow King" presents us with a slight dose of justice and a larger personal victory for the two leads, but "The Strange Demise of Ben Caspere" offers total justice, although deferred, and not gained without sacrifice.

Bearing all this in mind, the Caspere case is the one I prefer, despite the Yellow King story's superior execution. There's a share of nihilistic tirades in the former, mostly from Frank, but it's not nearly as unrelenting as Rust's stuff. And despite efforts to make Los Angeles threatening and drab, it still feels at least like it is a part of the rest of the world, unlike the Bayou. In Los Angeles there is a sense that there might be somewhere else to turn, somewhere else to go. It's incredibly less claustrophobic. Maybe I just can't shake the feeling that it's "home."

So yes, the first tale was better, but the second was, to me anyway, a little "lighter" psychologically and emotionally, and generally more inviting because of it.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Additionally....

I've probably mentioned this before, but at first glance it seems that Errol Childress is an inbred nut with a proclivity for delusional identification with fictional characters (see how he takes on the mannerisms of James Mason in North By Northwest as he watches the film, for example), so it may be tempting to assume he happened upon some Lovecraft or Chambers and took up the identity of the Yellow King and all the mythology around him. However... the old woman who was a maid for Sam Tuttle knows about all that stuff, and she was around when Errol was only a kid. And obviously that's all been a part of the "family tradition" of culty rape and murder for a "long time" as Errol himself says and as evidenced by the horrible videotape, for instance - or was it only when Errol took over that things become so specifically associated with Carcosa, etc.? So... who is the Yellow King? The altar in Carcosa has some skulls, and what looks like an actual coffin? Maybe the remains of Sam Tuttle? Is he the real King, and the family just carries on his work? Or is there actually something supernatural at work, and the Tuttle family has just been an instrument of "Him Who Eats Time" for long before the Dora Lange case? Was Rust not hallucinating in that final vortex vision?

Again I dunno if we've talked about all this before, but let's again!

Ok upon reading back I see that I made almost exactly the same post last year. Ignore me! Although I seem to have shifted in my interpretation. Interesting.

[Jay 37,287]

4 Storytelling Lessons We Can Learn from the Giant Fuckup that was True Detective Season 2

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Those complaints are tailor-made for Jason LeBlanc! Oh well.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Interesting post, but flawed. I really like the parts of your post that weren't flawed, but then there were some flaws that reminded me of the flawdness of your flawed post.

Christ, I mean I enjoyed the season, whatever. I know you're joking about the fanboy stuff but fucking hell I'm just sick of reading everyone's opinions about everything and how FLAWED everything is. Is that all anyone can talk about anymore? Access to the internet has turned everyone into an unbearable critic. Fuck that. Watch stuff, like it, or don't like it, and shut up about it. No one cares about why you don't like things.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Who is Blind fanboyism, and what blinded him?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Nah, but there certainly are some rabid hateboys here, as evidenced by the total lack of interest in responding to my discussion of the two seasons on the last page, in favor of posting another article about how bad everything was. It's just fucking tiring. But hey, I get it. That's what makes JWFan great. Links, links, and more links. News! Lists of flaws! More news! Cool.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I couldn't watch the video because I don't know who Tony Chessani is. It was just all so damn convoluted and flawed.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Glóin the Dark 1,218]

I thought the article was drivel.

[Jay 37,287]

See? That's why we didn't react to your posts! Because everytime we say something about the show, you come up with snide remarks like this!

This.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

See? That's why we didn't react to your posts! Because everytime we say something about the show, you come up with snide remarks like this!

It feels like you refuse to talk about our negative reaction to the season without acting all sarcastic.

You dismiss our opinions, so there's not much of a point to respond to your posts!

But I'm sure KK or Koko will soon come and say how much they agree with what you said and everything will be well in your world!

Uhh... well, yeah! Let me make it perfectly clear: every time your talk about your negative reactions (not ANYTHING about the show), I will act sarcastically. It shouldn't just "feel" like that anymore - now you know!

And yes, I dismiss your opinions about what was good or bad because who cares? What's the point of talking about that? Who is going to be convinced of anything?

I'm sorry that I don't want to talk about why you didn't like the season. I don't want to talk about why anyone didn't like anything. And if you want to ignore why I like things, that's also fine. But cut this prissy "you're mean to me so I won't respond to you!" bullshit. My point is that no one seems to want to really talk about anything on here beyond surface "I liked it/I didn't like it" opinions (or worse, just posting articles related to this). And that's just annoying. And it might be one of many things that could be off-putting to people who might be thinking about joining the forum.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Interesting post, but flawed. I really like the parts of your post that weren't flawed, but then there were some flaws that reminded me of the flawdness of your flawed post.

Christ, I mean I enjoyed the season, whatever. I know you're joking about the fanboy stuff but fucking hell I'm just sick of reading everyone's opinions about everything and how FLAWED everything is. Is that all anyone can talk about anymore? Access to the internet has turned everyone into an unbearable critic. Fuck that. Watch stuff, like it, or don't like it, and shut up about it. No one cares about why you don't like things.

If you only talk about the things you like then everyone will think that you like everything!

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Can't have that. I need people to know about my displeasure. It validates it.

----

See? That's why we didn't react to your posts! Because everytime we say something about the show, you come up with snide remarks like this!

This.

Jay.

The five (!) friends of mine who I've recommended this site to all (!) found the same certain negative trends and personalities to be enough to dissuade them from joining, despite strong personal and professional interest in the site's subject matter. I always wondered if some of it was in my head, but now I see that there is in fact some real obsession with criticism, and also passive-aggressiveness, and derision, and selective outrage and favoritism (that is, a habit of criticizing some but not others for the same things, with some posters becoming the go-to scapegoat) that gets handed out here from certain people. Perhaps that's more worth some thought than my mean, mean sarcasm. Indeed, it's why what you posted and BB's response really set me off in the first place.

[publicist 4,643]

but now I see that there is in fact some real obsession with criticism, and also passive-aggressiveness, and derision, and selective outrage and favoritism (that is, a habit of criticizing some but not others for the same things, with some posters becoming the go-to scapegoat) that gets handed out here from certain people.

Pretty broad targets, eh?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,287]

David Cronenberg passed on directing True Detective 2

[KK 3,307]

But I'm sure KK or Koko will soon come and say how much they agree with what you said and everything will be well in your world!

Meh, like I said before, I think the season has a lot going for it, and that the media continues to get carried away with terms like "failure" and "Giant Fuckup".

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,287]

True Detective: HBO chief takes blame for season 2 difficulties

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Interesting comments.

 

So not much love for season 2 then? I still haven't gotten around to watching it yet and may not do so at all now.

[Jay 37,287]

It's almost universal viewed as a big disappointment after the almost universal praise season 1 got.  But some liked it just fine, and some loved it so much they place it higher than season 1, like TGP.  It's only 8 hours out of your month to find out for yourself.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I liked season 1, but not as much as others did, I think. So I'm not sure if I will really be disappointed by season 2.

 

So basically, this tells me nothing. 

[Jay 37,287]

I expect you won't like it very much.  Try Hannibal instead

[crocodile 7,984]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

True Detective: HBO chief takes blame for season 2 difficulties

That's quite unusual actually. For an executive to publically take responsibility like this.

 

Karol

[Jay 37,287]

Basically he says that Pizzolato had a long time to work on Season 1, then when it was a hit, the exec had him create a second season in a much shorter time than he was used to.  Which makes sense.  

 

So maybe we won't see a season 3 until 2017.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

I expect you won't like it very much.  Try Hannibal instead

 

I watched season one. Didn't hold my interest. Too much gloom and doom.

[Jay 37,287]

Hmmm, Season 2 and 3 get even darker than Season 1, so I guess that's not for you either

 

 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

10 hours ago, Mr. Breathmask said:

I liked season 1, but not as much as others did, I think. So I'm not sure if I will really be disappointed by season 2.

 

So basically, this tells me nothing. 

Give the first 2 episodes a shot and if you aren't into it, then bail. Season 2 starts off very strong, falters in the middle, and comes up with a strong ending. In my opinion, of course. Really my only issue is that it bites off more than it can chew. Jumping from 2 central characters to 4, in addition to a convoluted plot, makes everything a bit messy.