Guest Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Maybe it's just me but I find that my favorite movies always happen to be Hans Zimmer's... I fell in love with the Gladiator soundtrack before I even saw the movie, and dont start throwing rocks at me but I think that Williams repeats one or two themes to often with a fiew variations... Just wanted to know if others might agree? Catherine - who honestly loves them both but... - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,793 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 *Throws the first rock* Well as long as you like Williams.....To me, Zimmer sounds synthethized and very monotonous. I saw the Rock (coincidence LOL ) the other day and the music sounded like gladiator, and pearl harbor too... and some parts in the lion king....)But williams repeating too often themes with few variiations? Where? when? Ah! in his sequels/prequels....I know there are sometimes you thing he copies himself (well at least he is not Horner ) but i think that it is moslty the feeling of the music, not the notes.The only thing i recall beign copied is Ludlow's demise, which i think that it is intentional....but you are entitled to your opinion 8O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,176 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 would I be banned if I prefered Zimmer to Williams?I hope so. Prefer Goldsmith, if you like, or Doyle, or Goldenthal, Shore, Korngold, Herrmann, Steiner, North, Rozsa, Barry....heck, even Horner. But not Mediaventures. Seriously though, I can't see how one can criticize Williams musically in comparison to Zimmer...he's light years ahead!Marian - sorry, you asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Banned???? Nah, question your sanity??? Yes!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 i think that was sort of a pointless question, obviously no one should be banned due to who they place first on their favorites list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Zimmer is a fine compose who has delivered some outstanding works. (The Lion king, Hannibal, Gladiator, Crimson Tide...etc)No need to feel ashamed.Stefancos- who prefers Zimmer over any classical composer anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,793 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Stefancos- who prefers Zimmer over any classical composer anyday. That, at your rating of the latter, doesn't meant much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 I'm Aayla's twin sis and... I'm the one who suggested that John Williams repeats himself and, well, he does. In the Love theme Across the Stars (star wars) the melody is very repetitive. I know I'm not a genius, Williams is a double genius, but Zimmer is a triple genius. Can someone really CRY while listening to Gladiator's soundtrack before even seeing the movie??? I did. I mean really, I'm NOT a sensitive girl and that was me sniffing and blubbering like a baby!But I have to admit that whatever movie I'm listening I'll know instantly if it's Zimmer. He's not really repetitive but there's something that's the same in every soundtrack he writes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,243 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Can someone really CRY while listening to Gladiator's soundtrack before even seeing the movie??? I did. So did I... But for different reasons... He's not really repetitive but there's something that's the same in every soundtrack he writes...I agree... But I'll shut up now. :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 So did I... But for different reasons... Stefancos- who has not even seen Glad I Ate Her yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Well! the only person who agrees with me is my sister! I'm a bit disappointed but I guess if I went to a Zimmer fansite and said I prefered Williams, they's think Im crazy! I'm just trying to be open to something else than JW because even if I'm not a genius and I'm not a music freak, I know that Zimmer CAN make a boring movie like Pearl Harbour good because of the music. Come to think of it, I'd better just shut up because I'll just get more rocks thrown at me...Catherine - who thinks that starting this thread was even more stupid than Conor's "The Beatles" thread... - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Well, this is a JW fan site, so you could have guessedwhat kinda response you would get.A pity Roald is on his honeymoon right now (probably) he loves Zimmer to death.Stefancos- who thinks Roald's loving someone else to death right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 I'm really wondering when you sleep and work?? seems like you're always on this site! (Stenfancos, Ren... all the veterans) what are your jobs?Catherine - who is not just trying to change the subject - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 to put it nicely Zimmer sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,176 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Stefancos- who prefers Zimmer over any classical composer anyday. That's interesting. Because one of the best bits in Lion King is a direct lift from Mozart.Marian - who thinks many Zimmer-scored films are even worse than their scores (Lion King not included, and that has a rather nice score, too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin 2 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I love Zimmer but he is no Williams...or Goldsmith. I think basically all of his scores are fun. Justin -Who can't wait for Tears of the Sun and Last Samurai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I'm really wondering when you sleep and work?? seems like you're always on this site! (Stenfancos, Ren... all the veterans) what are your jobs? Catherine - who is not just trying to change the subject - I am a music teacher.Well! the only person who agrees with me is my sister! I'm a bit disappointed but I guess if I went to a Zimmer fansite and said I prefered Williams, they's think Im crazy! I'm just trying to be open to something else than JW because even if I'm not a genius and I'm not a music freak, I know that Zimmer CAN make a boring movie like Pearl Harbour good because of the music. Come to think of it, I'd better just shut up because I'll just get more rocks thrown at me... Catherine - who thinks that starting this thread was even more stupid than Conor's "The Beatles" thread... Stefan is right, it IS a JW site, everyone hear I"M SURE is open to other composers You just need to stand up for what you believe and realize that no one here REALLY thinks that you are "less of a person" because you like something others don't. Every one has their opinions and no one is banned for liking different composers.Any composer that evokes emotion out of a listener is good. if Zimmer did that to you, then by all means keep listening.Ren,very much has a life, and tries very hard to squeeze in as much JWFan as she can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanticStrings 10 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I think that Zimmer is very well educated. His score to Gladiator was intentionally written to sound like Wagner, and it succeeds with flying colors. It is very similar, but doesn't sound copied. He is a very versatile composer, doing stuff like Driving Miss Daisy to Crimson Tide to Mission: Impossible II and beyond. I like his stuff a lot. I don't think he's the best, but I like him nevertheless.~Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coscina 3 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I think that Zimmer is very well educated. His score to Gladiator was intentionally written to sound like Wagner, and it succeeds with flying colors. It is very similar, but doesn't sound copied. ~ConorI couldn't disagree more. Zimmer took piano lessons as a child but got most of his music knowledge through real world experiences with bands such as The Buggles when it comes to synthesizers. He did study with Stanley Myers (of Deer Hunter fame) for a while. But he is not schooled in the same way Williams, Goldsmith, or even someone like James Newton Howard is, all of whom studied composition in university. And frankly, I think this is reflected in the construction of his music. I miss the Hans Zimmer who did Rain Man and Thelma and Louise, two films that emphasized the styles of music he's most comfortable with- pop and ambient synth type material. But it would be follish and downright ignorant to say that he composes material with the same deft ability as Williams, who is able to write contrapuntal, melodically diverse and harmonically rich music. Zimmer doesn't come from a jazz background and I have yet to hear any serious harmonic extensions in his music. This doesn't mean his material is bad, but once again, if we're on the topic of discussing music in absolutes, well, purely by the mechanics of music, Zimmer is a far cry from Williams.I think the whole plagiarism topic is subject to personal interpretation. I think Zimmer did directly lift sections of Holsts' Mars the Bringer of War and parts of Wagner's Ring Cycle for his score to Gladiator. Sorry folks but I studied both pieces in university myself, and I'm quite familiar with the material. I personally don't care for his score to the film either. I find it noisy and unnecessarily bombastic. His arrangment skills are what I would call pedestrian at best....and he employs orchestrators on top of this! Williams also uses orchestrators for his films, mostly due to time pressures, but funny enough his concert pieces, of which he writes out completely on his own, sound the same as his film work...hmmm, wonder what that means?Anyhow, I'm sure that I have offended some Zimmer fans so I'll say this in the hopes of not leaving anyone too distraught: when it comes to saying what you LIKE, everyone has the liberty of doing so. But making ignorant assertions like Zimmer is BETTER than Williams without having any solid musical theory to back it up, well that's just asking for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanticStrings 10 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I don't disagree with you, Riery Angel, and I used educated in the wrong sense. I meant, well, I don't know what I meant, but I think that you are right. I like to listen to his music, however uneducated he is. It's written in a way that doesn't hurt the ear, except when it's supposed to.~Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Is this post for real? First off to answer the question about what us veterans do, I'm a composer and orchestrator. I own a company with 3 others and we are developing projects. I work at home and therefor can be next to my computer most of the time, unless I'm in the gym.As for Williams vs. Zimmer..... When Zimmer can write a whole score by himself without other people writing a lot of it for him, I'll discuss the topic with you! One of my best friends REGULARLY writes a lot of the cues on his films. I can't even believe anyone would compare?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCFKevin 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Lately, Zimmer has really done nothing for me, but his older stuff, his first stuff, Lion King, Crimson Tide, The Rock, Peacemaker, Pearl Harbor, they're all AMAZING scores, in my opinion. In fact, I think The Rock is one of the best action scores ever, it's incredible. Very fun to listen to and very dangerous to drive to. Same goes for Devoe's Revenge on the Peacemaker score. DAMN, it's just so intense and powerful, you can hear the rage and anger he's feeling in the music, it's perfect. So, I definitely won't come down on you for loving Zimmer. I'm a Zimmerlover as well. However, Hannibal, Gladiator, MI2, they didn't do much for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Most of Hans Zimmer's material is good, but sometimes it goes to the point of unlistenable. For example, Black Hawk Down - the music(?) reflects the bleak mood of the film very well but just trying to listen to it on CD is a struggling ordeal! In other words, it's just noise to me.However, I like many of his scores and I truly believe that he has deep, rich musical talent. But to say that he's better than Williams is blowing it out of proportion - i.e. - what the more musically educated guys above said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 To me, Zimmer sounds synthethizedGee, I wonder why that is...I find most of Zimmer's music intolerable, but I think The Thin Red Line is a much more honest portrait of the psychological realities of war than Williams's Saving Private Ryan. (I'm sure that the same could be said about the films they underscore, though my own sensibilities, in general, are far closer to those of Spielberg than to those of Mallick.) I maintain that Williams's score is a masterpiece of elegiac Americana, but, especially juxtaposed against Zimmer's score that same year, I can see why many critics derided Williams's music as "hokey." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Banned? No! Shunned? DEFINATELY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 well, i think we got our point across here didn't we?Ren,PO'ed she has to bring back her game cube because it BROKE!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 ...would I be banned if I prefered Zimmer to Williams?Who?Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I couldn't disagree more. Zimmer took piano lessons as a child but got most of his music knowledge through real world experiences with bands such as The Buggles when it comes to synthesizers. He did study with Stanley Myers (of Deer Hunter fame) for a while. But he is not schooled in the same way Williams, Goldsmith, or even someone like James Newton Howard is, all of whom studied composition in university. And frankly, I think this is reflected in the construction of his music.You know Schoenberg was never taught either. The most innovative composers tend to be self taught. So that doesn't excuse Zimmer. And note his orchestrators only convert his computer files into proper score sheets. Anyway, I think Zimmer is quite decent, I like Gladiator much, and you could surely like worse like Trevor Rabin or Bill Conti. He has a good talent for melodies and a rather fresh sound, sure he's done a lot of crap though. But I will say he tends to suffer from snobbery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 You know Schoenberg was never taught either. Actually, he studied privately with Alexander Von Zemlinsky (a contemporary of Mahler's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 let's just prove everyone wrong here OK? Let's show how much we know to each other.jeez :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlletsycho 0 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 i like Zimmer and Williams. i like music. i love film music. but John Williams will always be number one for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYPHER 1 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I've been wanting to put in my two cents about Hans Zimmer for a while now but was a little intimidated about bringing up the topic in light of the contempt that many here hold him in. On the whole I like Zimmer's work. When I see his names in the credits of a film, I know that there will usually be something interesting to listen to at least. And while he has written some dross, and derivative dross at that (the main theme from Pearl Harbor is almost completely lifted from The Thin Red Line), for the most part I think he is a good film composer in the sense that he generally adds to any given movie's atmosphere, tone and effect. We can talk all we like about varying degrees of education and technical expertise, but when it really comes down to it, this is the essential job of a film composer. This said, not all of Zimmer's music sounds as good removed from the context of the film. This is one of the reasons I love Williams's work so much: it is usually so brilliantly inspired it can stand on its own. And it's more than probable that Williams' greater skill, knowledge, genius and experience is responsible for this fact. Some of the things I like about Zimmer are qualities that others here disapprove of. I like the fact that he is versatile (in his film choices if not style), that he is prolific and also that he collaborates with others on occasion (though perhaps too frequently of late). And The Thin Red Line is one of my favourite scores. CYPHER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 for the most part I think he is a good film composer in the sense that he generally adds to any given movie's atmosphere, tone and effect.In the film he's not very consistant and often has misplaced music in the film. I don't mind bombast. But one thing I really is for example the synth source music in gladiator for the coliseum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCFKevin 0 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Oh hell, I forgot about Thin Red Line. One BORING goddamn movie but an AWESOME score. Worked perfectly with Pearl Harbor's trailer. Shame legal problems kept it from being on the DVD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,793 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I'm Aayla's twin sis and... I'm the one who suggested that John Williams repeats himself and, well, he does. In the Love theme Across the Stars (star wars) the melody is very repetitive. I know I'm not a genius, Williams is a double genius, but Zimmer is a triple genius. Can someone really CRY while listening to Gladiator's soundtrack before even seeing the movie??? I did. I mean really, I'm NOT a sensitive girl and that was me sniffing and blubbering like a baby!Well i just thought one thing, i'm sure you did not cried with 'the battle' or 'barbarian horde', so do you know that you cried with Lisa Gerrad's music not zimmer's?And about Williams making themes repeating a leitmotif several times, well it were the same recording it would be annoying but he doesn't do that, but the contrary.Gladiator has also several repeatings itself, i think. (for example 'now we are free') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Oh hell, I forgot about Thin Red Line. One BORING goddamn movie but an AWESOME score. Worked perfectly with Pearl Harbor's trailer. Shame legal problems kept it from being on the DVD.That was a pretty cool trailer...too bad the movie didn't live up to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCFKevin 0 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Well.....that's a matter of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Well, Williams might get some stuff to sound like something he did before, but every composer is the same thing, only in the case of Zimmer you get like 5 or 6 composers sounding the same, so...But again, Zimmer's The Lion King and Crimson Tide are very good IMHO. The rest is just crapKlesko24 - who prefers any classical musician over Mediaventures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 When I saw The Rock I figured segments of his music could fit in any movie..but that's the point of Mediaventures,right?Anyway,to me the trend of filmscoring Zimmer is setting is one of the main reason I don't like film scores in general as much as I used to...no way scores like that will ever be compared to serious classical music IMO(the exact opposite I believe Williams tried to do).K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Hans Zimmer's work of the last few years has been lacking IMO. He has not put out anything good since Gladiator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCFKevin 0 Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Even that, though, in my opinion, is pretty overrated. It's good, yeah, but not really THAT good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Well..... Hans Zimmer is a good Film Music ComposerJohn Williams is a great Composer who composes music for films Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 I'd say he hasn't put anythong good since The Crimson Tide(and before The Lion KingKlesko24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Well..... Hans Zimmer is a good Film Music ComposerJohn Williams is a great Composer who composes music for filmsYes,that seems accurate.Not many composers bother to write concert as many concert arrangements of their film music,or do concerts lof their music like Williams does(Goldsmith does,to a lesser degree.).K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Zimmer seems to be doing little or nothing lately. He seems very inactive as far as composing goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin 2 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 His score to Tears of the Sun will be comming out soon I think. Justin -Who can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 He seems very inactive as far as composing goes.Funny, I thought he seemed inactive when composing, as well. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I guess Zimmer is ok if you like someone pounding on a synth for 60 mins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 He seems very inactive as far as composing goes.Funny, I thought he seemed inactive when composing, as well. NeilVery funny wise guy! As for that Tears of the Sun score. Hmmmm could be good. I just hope it is not a Black Hawk Down knock-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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