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Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson 2017)


Dixon Hill

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10 minutes ago, mstrox said:

My kid has seen 1-2, 4-9, and Solo, each only once, and the only things that have really stuck with her are from TLJ - the battle with Paige dying at the beginning and the Fathier chase. She actually asked me to watch both last weekend.

 

I want to direct all of the people who ignore or don’t care for the thematic intent of the Canto Bight stuff  to my child (the intended audience of a Star War) who likes Canto Bight and the Fathiers better than the Mos Eisley cantina or the Ewoks.

 

How old is she?

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I remember seeing it with my brother and cousin and we were so baffled by how much we disliked it.  None of us predicted having that negative a reaction to it.

It was already midnight but we spent a good hour back at home talking about it, trying to comprehend it all (the flying Leia scene of course, how Luke's death seemed to come out of nowhere, Snoke)

 

It's probably my favorite of the trilogy now.

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15 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I remember seeing it with my brother and cousin and we were so baffled by how much we disliked it.  None of us predicted having that negative a reaction to it.

It was already midnight but we spent a good hour back at home talking about it, trying to comprehend it all (the flying Leia scene of course, how Luke's death seemed to come out of nowhere, Snoke)

 

It's probably my favorite of the trilogy now.

What was it that made it your favourite of the sequel trilogy, after initially disliking it?

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7 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

On first viewing a lot of the thematic stuff hadn't gelled yet for me and it just seemed like a cluttered mess.  As I thought about it the week after, I started to understand the connections in the script (like the relationship between Paige's Sacrifice, Holdo's and Luke's at the end).  The themes of accepting and moving past failure.  

 

I still think it juggles too many ideas and the setting is pretty constrained (the bulk of the film happens in two places essentially, neither of which are inherently interesting visually) but it's still the best directed film of the trilogy.  It has much better mise en scene than TFA (albeit less flashy than Abrams) and the deliberate pacing lets scenes (and the score) breath.

 

So for you it's more about what the film was trying to say thematically overall and Rians visual style that makes it your favourite?

 

2 minutes ago, Holko said:

I was surprised that this was my first reaction to the first viewing. Then I loved it the second time, the only time I saw something in the cinema twice.

I'm now ashamed to admit that I saw this four times in the cinema (twice when it opened). The second time confirmed for me that I really didn't like it, the other two was out of desperation that something was wrong and that I should like it. What didn't you like about it the first time but changed the second time?

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TLJ has better "parts" than TFA. But it's not better than the sum of them. TFA is, when all is said and done, a better overall movie. Of course it's also a crappy foundation for the next two so in that regard it doesn't do its job either.

 

Sigh. We were so close. JJ is the devil.

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I loved the latest trilogy, because it had two ingredients I wanted to see in it: the return of Palpatine and the death of the "Skywalker" entity (made by the Force itself, have we say to repeat it, so it means Luke, Leia, Ben.. all the Skywalkers).

 

Having said that, TLJ is the weakest episode in the trilogy in the sense of it doesn't make the story goes forward enough. The big ship is stuck, no more fuel, then at the end of the movie, the rebels are hidding on the nearest base from this place... Sorry, but that's lame for a Star Wars episode. The Canto Bight part is a complete distraction, a big failure that finally change nothing to the conclusion of this pathetic plot.

 

So much was left to tell after TLJ, that it didn't help the 3rd episode, AT ALL (which could be in itself, two episodes).

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8 hours ago, Holko said:

I'm not sure by now actually, and I don't even think it was "I didn't like this and this", I just wasn't that sure I liked everything.

 

Part of it must be that Rogue One's ending and most of TFA was engineered to be a mindnumbing emotional sugar rush to hype you up (I definitely felt "whoah that was the best SW movie!" after coming out from both, then died down immediately on second watch, I like TFA less every time I see it), while TLJ works differently on a more cerebral plotty level.


Said a bit differently, unlike the JJ Abrams films which are mostly just fun popcorn movies, TLJ actually is *about something*.

 

I challenge anyone to tell me exactly what TRoS in particular is about, lol…


And even though I despise the prequels and think them worse than the sequel trilogy (even TRoS) in most ways, like I dunno script and characters, at least George Lucas clearly intended them to be about something too.
 

Yavar

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9 hours ago, Groovygoth666 said:

So for you it's more about what the film was trying to say thematically overall and Rians visual style that makes it your favourite?

Thematically, as the cinematic qualities were more apparent on first watch.

 

My disappointment in the relative sparsity of new (musical) themes was also maybe the main driving factor of disappointment, especially coming off TFA fatigue (the score had been in constant rotation for all of 2016/2017).  Though like the film, that too has grown on me over time as it has the most impact in-film.

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On 16/12/2022 at 7:57 AM, Holko said:

I'm not sure by now actually, and I don't even think it was "I didn't like this and this", I just wasn't that sure I liked everything.

 

Part of it must be that Rogue One's ending and most of TFA was engineered to be a mindnumbing emotional sugar rush to hype you up (I definitely felt "whoah that was the best SW movie!" after coming out from both, then died down immediately on second watch, I like TFA less every time I see it), while TLJ works differently on a more cerebral plotty level.

Ah I getcha. Agreed that the ending of Rogue One and most of TFA were designed to tug at the fans hearts in that sugar rush way as you put it. But then I'm still the opposite, I enjoy TFA the more I rewatch it and haven't revisited TLJ (or TROS) since getting the Skywalker Saga boxset a few years ago. I know TFA is, as @mstrox say's, aggressively Star Wars and hollow, with it being more or less a remake of ANH and yet knowing that it still feels fun every time and getting to the end it feels like there are so many possibilities for the next one. Whereas TLJ is perhaps too dour, and also feeling like more or less a remake of ESB, all the plot stuff for me feels borrowed again. While TFA doesn't try to hide it TLJ does by adding real world things onto it, animal cruelty and war profiteering being the two that jump out, and so feel out of place. But what is the cerebral plotty parts that work for you?

 

 

18 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I challenge anyone to tell me exactly what TRoS in particular is about, lol…

Something about not mattering where you come from..... maybe?

 

 

17 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Thematically, as the cinematic qualities were more apparent on first watch.

 

My disappointment in the relative sparsity of new (musical) themes was also maybe the main driving factor of disappointment, especially coming off TFA fatigue (the score had been in constant rotation for all of 2016/2017).  Though like the film, that too has grown on me over time as it has the most impact in-film.

Yeah it certainly has the best cinematography of the sequels. 

 

TFA's score is maybe a bit more bombastic in it's use of old and new theme's. Where there many new theme's in TLJ? Rose got one but can't recall many others. I think while TLJ didn't get many new theme's, it is perhaps a more mature score, definitely enjoyed the Fathiers and The Spark, but overall still prefer TFA.

 

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