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Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson 2017)


Dixon Hill

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6 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

There was nothing boring about Christopher Lee.

 

He, along with Ewan, Liam, and Ian, are the best parts of the films.  You know what, Jimmy Smits isn't bad either!

 

6 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Syfo Diaz is Snoke!

 

Jedi Master Sifo Dias is still a leading member of the Jedi council, is he not?

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Battlefront 2 is using the Episode VIII Stormtrooper model. So here it is:

 

Nr9sRwz.jpg

 

Not a huge difference, but they've changed the mouth from the mesh grille to a more 'traditional' Stormtrooper mouth grille. Aside from that, I can't really notice any difference.

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19 hours ago, Gistech said:

Battlefront 2 is using the Episode VIII Stormtrooper model. So here it is:

 

Nr9sRwz.jpg

 

Not a huge difference, but they've changed the mouth from the mesh grille to a more 'traditional' Stormtrooper mouth grille. Aside from that, I can't really notice any difference.

The front backpack is also new, but it could be an addon like in the sand trooper.

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On 20/04/2017 at 2:39 PM, Luke Skywalker said:

The front backpack is also new, but it could be an addon like in the sand trooper.

 

That was actually used by the "heavy" variant in TFA:

 

http://www.hidefninja.com/community/attachments/5-jpg.185917/

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10 hours ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Don't get me wrong, I love the design, but it's definitely a duck 😂

 

What's a duck?

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There seems to be a lot of people throughout the internet claiming "YES! THIS LOOKS COMPLETELY ORIGINAL! They're definitely not just remaking Empire."

 

I guess Disney have done their jobs with the teaser visuals to fool enough people that this is going to be more original. I'm not fooled:

 

- LUKE training REY is just YODA training LUKE.

 

- The FIRST ORDER recovering from their SUPER-WEAPON BEING DESTROYED by STRIKING BACK at the RESISTANCE is just the EMPIRE recovering from their SUPER-WEAPON BEING DESTROYED by STRIKING BACK at the REBELLION.

 

- REY'S PARENTAGE being REVEALED is just LUKE'S PARENTAGE being REVEALED.

 

- A BATTLE on a WHITE SURFACE (Salt) between RESISTANCE FIGHTERS and FIRST ORDER WALKERS is just a BATTLE on a WHITE SURFACE (Snow) between REBEL FIGHTERS and IMPERIAL WALKERS.

 

Etc etc.

 

So this will clearly be a remake of Empire, just as TFA was a remake of ANH. I'm even expecting a shot-for-shot remake in some places...look at this comparison from the teaser and Empire.

 

 

AT-AT-Walkers-in-Star-Wars-The-Last-Jedi-and-The-Empire-Strikes-Back.jpg

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Not to mention the glaringly obvious...

 

- Kylo (black-masked apprentice with a scarred face and daddy issues) and Snoke (frail old evil master)

 

- Vader (black-masked apprentice with a scarred face and daddy issues) and The Emperor (frail old evil master)

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Well that's kind of the formula, isn't it? Not saying it's original (it clearly isn't) but at least they haven't jumped the shark with clones of Palpatine/Vader or whatever the EU did.

 

Frankly I'm not convinced Lucas' prequel approach was any better. We basically had the Emperor in disguise through all 3 films, and a new villain-of-the-week in each sequel which, save for the always-reliable Christopher Lee, were cartoonish non-entities.

 

Star Wars is based on a formula; they're just following the previous incarnations of that formula a little too closely. I have no issues with them keeping the ingredients of Star Wars, but agree they need to mix up the method!

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Yeah that's a good way to look at it. I'm happy as long as it's a good film with interesting story and visuals. It still annoys me though that their ideas could go places, but they're hindered by their unoriginal execution of those ideas.

 

 

 

I have to be honest and say that no action scenes in TFA entertained me. I was bored during the falcon chase on Jakku, and the final X-Wing battle on Starkiller was so vastly inferior to the assault on the death star, that I was just bored with it. I enjoy TFA enough, but found no action to be original or enjoyable.

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When I was about 10 or so, I realized I had to stop putting all the biggest and best things I could possibly think of on my Christmas list and narrow it down to what I really wanted and thought I could get. This year I'd like a good John Williams score, a solid Mark Hamill performance, and some cool sci-fi image-making. To whatever extent the basic plot points and concepts are similar to other SW movies, I don't really care....I only found it mildly boring in TFA, anyway.

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I think the action in Rogue One was up there with the best that Star Wars has ever produced. If TLJ can combine the engaging and inventively fun battles of Rogue One, with the good character work of TFA, then it could be really great.

 

But Williams was the best thing about TFA by a mile, and I'm sure the same will apply for TLJ.

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I do agree the final aerial battle in TFA was a little underwhelming, but I thought the Falcon chase on Jakku was awesome.

 

In terms of setpieces, the lightsaber fight on Starkiller was the highlight.  The visual style of it was perfect, and the way it emphasized the emotional battle between the characters instead of stupid, shitty digital double acrobatics.  I never understood why people liked the saber fights in the prequels.

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The light saber fights in the Prequels generally lack a narrative.

 

It's just a few minutes of exhausting gymnastics that's the result of months of practice with the stunt coordinators, but there's no real story. No eb and fow.

 

The TFA one definitely has that.

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Yeah I agree the action scenes in the prequels generally weren't good at "telling a story." So much of the action in the prequels felt more like ILM tech demos.

 

8 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

It's because the music is fucking awesome.

 

That doesn't make the fights not stupid.

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I never felt anything for TFA lightsaber duel. It was way too much way too soon. It was made out to be an epic confrontation between two enemies who met an hour ago...

 

Rey was suicidal and broken after Han's death, crying etc, but she again only met him an hour ago...

 

Luke just moped a bit on the falcon after Ben died, but Rey is utterly destroyed by Han, which makes no sense, ( unless revealed in TLJ that she is his daughter, then it has bigger context.) But I felt no emotion really for the Kylo v Rey fight.

 

I also disagree that the Prequel duels lacked narrative. TPM was building up from the beginning, of Obi-Wan questioning Qui-Gon's methods and trying to step out of his shadow, and the Sith were ready for their big reveal to the Jedi that they were back. They even had Qui-Gon and Maul duel on Tattooine to show Qui-Gon that Maul was very powerful and it would take more than one Jedi to defeat him. And as Qui-Gon died, Obi-Wan had to step up. Full of narrative.

 

And of course the final ROTS duel is hugely emotional and had been building up for years narratively. 

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We were talking about the fight/setpiece choreography itself, not the story surrounding why the fight is happening. The story happens around the fights, not through the fights.  I dunno, I hate the acrobatic shit, where the characters just look like they're made out of rubber.

 

We're just opposite, I felt nothing for Rogue One and loved TFA. *shrug* It is what it is.

 

Also, in general I'm not as enamored with Williams' epic, choral music for the prequels as others are, so that probably affects how I feel about the fights too.

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16 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

That doesn't make the fights not stupid.

 

I know, but that's why! :P

 

The best part of TFA's lightsaber fight is the closeup of Rey stood still with her eyes closed, snowflakes flying around her in blue and red light, and the Force theme on English horn. Who cares about the bladework anymore? It's boring at this point. They were smart to keep it to a minimum, just long enough for the preteens to run out their attention spans while the rest of us get the idea.

 

I don't think it was made out to be overly epic, either. I think it's kept pretty small-scale, just a hint of what Rey might be capable of eventually. It's all pretty simple and doesn't build to anything major or conclusive, which gives some room for the sequels to peacock a little more. I think that's also why a big "Duel of the Fates" style piece wouldn't have worked at all.

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1 minute ago, mrbellamy said:

I don't think it was made out to be overly epic, either. I think it's kept pretty small-scale, just a hint of what Rey might be capable of eventually. It's all pretty simple and doesn't truly build to anything major or conclusive, which gives some room for the sequels to peacock a little more. I think that's also why a big "Duel of the Fates" style piece wouldn't have worked at all.

 

The fight choreography was in service to the character interplay.  In the prequels it was just "and then the magical kung fu wizards spun around a lot."  No emotional heft at all.

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Right, I get it. Yeah I see what you mean, it's mostly just impressive stunt work and choreography, not narratively driven. I guess he was stuck in the premise of the Jedi being in their prime, so they would inevitably be flying around all over the place. I still think the best lightsaber duel is Luke v Vader in Empire. With Vader playing with Luke initially to get him into the chamber to freeze him, then he realises he is under-estimating Luke, and the fight goes down into ths underbelly of the city, and each environment is key to each Saber movement etc, very story driven fighting.

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Just now, leeallen01 said:

I still think the best lightsaber duel is Luke v Vader in Empire. 

 

Yep.  The prime example of what I'm getting at.  Fight choreography as a physical extension of the characters emotional confrontation.  Gosh, Empire Strikes Back sure is good, huh? :P 

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20 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

Rey was suicidal and broken after Han's death, crying etc, but she again only met him an hour ago...

 

In MovieTime, but then you make the same point about Luke and Ben in the original film. Who knows much time has elapsed between the Falcon entering the freighter and the duel on Starkiller Base? All we know is that in the relatively short time Rey and Han have known each other, he's become a surrogate father.

 

 

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Indeed. 

 

I guess that goes back to TFA's action sequences. There was no narrative to the final x-wing battle for me. It was just very quickly jammed together:

 

- Oh no, they have another deathstar, but bigger!

- oh look it has one weakness.

- send fighters in to shoot it.

-it blows up. 

Just now, Sharky said:

 

In MovieTime, but then you make the same point about Luke and Ben in the original film. Who knows much time has elapsed between the Falcon entering the freighter and the duel on Starkiller Base? All we know is that in the relatively short time Rey and Han have known each other, he's become a surrogate father.

 

 

 

 

They left the freighter and went immediately to Maz, because Han asks Rey her name on Maz's planet. They have been together for minutes really. Then Rey spends the entire time with Maz and then is abducted by Kylo, and then see's Han only once more in the Starkiller base,  before he is killed. So literally the total time Rey and Han spend together is a few minutes. They have one scene where they talk to each other. Surrogate father was nowhere near earned at all.

 

Luke knew Ben before ANH started. He spent time training with him and they spoke about jedi and the force at Ben's home etc, and Luke didn't break down after his death. He just was a bit sad for a few minutes. 

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I do agree that the problem with Rey/Han as opposed to Luke/Ben is that Obi-Wan is shown guiding Luke, helping him along through his journey, whereas Han doesn't really do anything for Rey besides offer her a job. She basically shows him how good at stuff she already is and he's impressed, not too much bonding there. I don't fully go along with the "Rey is a Mary Sue" thing because I think she shows vulnerabilities elsewhere (and Daisy brings out some things in her performance that wouldn't have been in the character otherwise) but I dunno that I really felt she needed Han. There's a little more to his relationship with Finn, who has more to learn, so his fight with Kylo Ren has more of a thirst for vengeance behind it combined with knocking out Rey, whereas Rey's fight is more about culminating her own personal journey. 

 

It's definitely not a perfect setup but there's enough going on there to satisfy for a simple emotional framework imo.

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Total time Rey and Han spent together:

 

- On the Freighter for a 2 minute conversation about Luke. (Chewie, BB8 and Fin were all present too)

- On the Falcon for a few minutes as they went to Takadona.

- On Takadona where Han asked Rey her name and offered her a job.

- In Maz's castle (Maz, Fin, BB8 all present too)

- On Starkiller as she ran into Fin (Han was in the background.)

 

Hardly surrogate father/daughter bonding.

 

Her OTT reaction to Han being killed was ridiculous. Fin had a more realistic reaction of just shock that this legendary figure he has heard about and fought with briefly is now dead. Rey reacted like her father of 40 years had just died, along with several children and puppies.

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I think the warm tone of their Takodana conversation is probably what let them get away with it. There's a sweetness to the interaction, Han showing a little more patience and kindness than we're used to, looks like he's genuinely showing interest in her. It's endearing to watch them share the screen. That doesn't exactly make it a classic movie friendship, but it's sort of enough to get it by. I don't think the Rey/Han relationship is quite as crucial as you think the film makes it out to be, though. 

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Another way of looking at it would be to see Rey as an audience stand-in, sharing the collective shock of Star Wars fans at the death of a beloved character. So her reaction provides an extra-filmic commentary to the scene as she becomes one of us, channeling our grief.

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Well, for sure, that's a big part of it. Nobody in the audience is really provoked to thinking about why exactly she would be so broken up about it because of course she is! It's Han Solo!

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I cared more about K2SO's death than I did Han bloody Solo! Everyone I know didn't care about Han dying either. It was wayyy too obvious and very poorly executed in my opinion.

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